Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: toki on December 13, 2009, 12:44:47 AM

Title: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: toki on December 13, 2009, 12:44:47 AM
I want the reflected light that reflects in the windshield of the cockpit though it seems to have gone out to last year's wishlist.

If the appearance of the pilot himself and the pilot's expression are difficult, I want reflecting of internal meters etc.
It becomes difficult to understand to which to turn with TrackIR because there is no window frame in the complete, transparent back, and the an optical illusion caused and AcesHigh today crashes when it becomes P51D though the direction of the glance is ..model with a lot of 0 games or window frames.. comprehensible.

It can be prevented if there is reflecting of the reflected light, and externals might be additionally good-looking.

Simplicity.
When express the reflected light
The optical illusion with TrackIR is not caused easily.
The reflected light is good-looking.
Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: Flipperk on December 13, 2009, 01:02:20 AM
I want the reflected light that reflects in the windshield of the cockpit though it seems to have gone out to last year's wishlist.

If the appearance of the pilot himself and the pilot's expression are difficult, I want reflecting of internal meters etc.
It becomes difficult to understand to which to turn with TrackIR because there is no window frame in the complete, transparent back, and the looking-mistake is caused and AcesHigh today crashes when it becomes P51D though the direction of the glance is ..model with a lot of 0 games or window frames.. comprehensible.

It can be prevented if there is reflecting of the reflected light, and externals might be additionally good-looking.

Simplicity.
When express the reflected light
The looking-mistake with TrackIR is not caused easily.
The reflected light is good-looking.

 :huh :huh
Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: LLogann on December 13, 2009, 01:04:42 AM
So let me get this straight.........


You are wishing for a better video card?

My sunlight is pretty darn real, thank you very much.  And if you don't agree........

Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: toki on December 13, 2009, 01:08:35 AM
You are wishing for a better video card?
It was expressible in the game Migs alley.
If HTC has the picture power, it is likely to be able to draw by one texture.
Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: LLogann on December 13, 2009, 01:11:25 AM
You can ask for a new video card in any language you want my fellow flyer!!!   :salute

 :x

jk

I actually do understand where you're coming from but I think that would be an FPS killer for most, if not all people.  The reflections would need to be modeled to move in realtime. 
Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: gyrene81 on December 13, 2009, 02:53:20 AM
 :huh I don't understand a word of it except for the title...I get reflections from the sun all the time in my cockpit...maybe you don't have something turned on?  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: gpwurzel on December 13, 2009, 03:04:01 AM
I'm thinking Toki is wanting the glass on the cockpits to reflect sunlight - which would be cool looking, but possibly framerate killing.

The current glass is completely transparent, well, till you get hit in the engine anyway - with no other interaction in the game.


Wurzel
Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: toki on December 13, 2009, 04:39:54 AM
I'm thinking Toki is wanting the glass on the cockpits to reflect sunlight
That's right!
Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: chewie86 on December 13, 2009, 05:57:46 AM
would be cool to see..... but probably a FPS killer, would like to listen to the programmers about it.


Toki, are you the guy from this 90's videogame ?
(http://www.iovideogioco.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/toki1.jpg)

Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: The Fugitive on December 13, 2009, 09:21:40 AM
Toki is from Japan and uses a translator to post his post seeing he doesn't do English very well. Have a little class for our NON english speaking players.

HTC has done a great job of adding the reflections in the water. I think Toki is asking for it to be moved to the windows in the planes as well. I'm sure it would really look cool to catch site of the pilots reflection in the glass as you sweep into a turn. Seeing I'm not a programmer I don't know how much of a hit it would be, but seeing its one of the things that you are able to turn off I would think it could really hurt your FR.
Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: gyrene81 on December 13, 2009, 10:11:54 AM
Toki is from Japan and uses a translator to post his post seeing he doesn't do English very well. Have a little class for our NON english speaking players.
Fugitive...perhaps if Toki's profile info reflected the Location: Japan more people would be a little more inclined to try and make better sense of the jumbled translation. Fact is the first post is a bit difficult to comprehend.

I can only imagine reflective glass in AH...if I remember correctly, in Mig Alley the pilot helmet had a tinted visor, which made it possible to see sun glare on the canopy and the appearance of translucent instrument panel reflections on the inside of the canopy if the sun was in the right position to produce the reflection. If those are the effects Toki is requesting, the only thing that would be possible without some heavy variable programming and a possible frame rate hit is the sun reflection off the canopy of another plane (a sprite). You would have to actually render a full 3D pilot in the cockpit first...then you would have to predict the direction and angle of the sun...then guess what reflection(s) would be possible on what area of the canopy based on the size and shape of the canopy...then determine whether it would be a full or partial reflection based on the angle and direction of the sun...then render it as a dynamic transparent overlay that changed as various changes occurred. It would have to be something that could be turned on/off depending on player preference since not only would it cause a frame rate hit, it could interfere with visibility since we don't have the ability to refocus our virtual pilots vision to specific points.

Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: hitech on December 13, 2009, 10:43:07 AM
I am not sure what you are asking for.

Do you mean when looking at a different plane from the outside?

Or looking at your plane from the inside? If so light does not reflect on the window when you are on the far side. I think what you may be asking for is simply marks on the canopy so you get a feel for what direction you are looking. If so , this would be a very extreme frame rate hitter for many conditions because you are so close to the transparency you have to fill the entire screen 1 extra time.
Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: ImADot on December 13, 2009, 11:45:05 AM
I'm thinking the wish is to see cockpit reflections on the inside of the canopy.  I agree that this would be cool, but also agree it would be a framerate killer.  Here's a shot from Falcon 4.0 that I found as an example:

(http://pcmedia.ign.com/media/reviews/image/falconfour4.jpg)
Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: Motherland on December 13, 2009, 11:52:59 AM
I'm thinking the wish is to see cockpit reflections on the inside of the canopy.  I agree that this would be cool, but also agree it would be a framerate killer.  Here's a shot from Falcon 4.0 that I found as an example:

(http://pcmedia.ign.com/media/reviews/image/falconfour4.jpg)
I highly doubt that that would be a framerate killer as it looks like it's just a semitransparent texture laid over the canopy. Also isn't that game like 10 years old?

Also I realize that I'm no programmer, but as soon as anyone suggests anything graphics related people flip, and it gets pretty silly. Seriously I'm quite sure that your video card and/or RAM can handle loading another ~500kb .bmp file to play the game.
Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: LLogann on December 13, 2009, 11:57:18 AM
Your eyes see semi-transparent.......  But sadly, that isn't what the video card sees. FRAME RATE KILLER.... I'd bet your life on that.

I highly doubt that that would be a framerate killer as it looks like it's just a semitransparent texture laid over the canopy. Also isn't that game like 10 years old?


Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: ImADot on December 13, 2009, 11:59:32 AM
Well, it's another semi-transparent layer that the vid card needs to render.  And the 10-year-old game is irrelevant; just needed a visual example for what I think was the wish of the OP. 
Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: gyrene81 on December 13, 2009, 12:04:36 PM
I'd rather have a visible pilot instead of an empty seat or canopy reflections...but that would probably be a framerate killer as well.

Does beg the question as to why ancient games like Mig Alley and Falcon 4.0 could render such things with ease and it couldn't be done in AH without causing a framerate problem. Neither of those games were MMO so there was no issue of data transfer...could that be the reason?
Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: Motherland on December 13, 2009, 12:22:09 PM
Your eyes see semi-transparent.......  But sadly, that isn't what the video card sees. FRAME RATE KILLER.... I'd bet your life on that.

Well I guess it means a lot to bet the life of some one you've never met before over the internet... anyway...

Could you explain to me 'what the video card sees'? Because just looking at it it looks like the game displays a semi transparent bitmap (like oil damage or blood spatters that we have in game) over the span of the canopy glass. Unless you have a problem with oil damage or blood spatters I can't imagine why something like this would cause you trouble.

I'd rather have a visible pilot instead of an empty seat or canopy reflections...but that would probably be a framerate killer as well.

Does beg the question as to why ancient games like Mig Alley and Falcon 4.0 could render such things with ease and it couldn't be done in AH without causing a framerate problem. Neither of those games were MMO so there was no issue of data transfer...could that be the reason?
I don't see why it would be a framerate killer? We already have a visible pilot inside the cockpit at lower LOD's. At the highest LOD you would just have the pilot instead of the empty seat. A few extra polygons and another 1mb texture. I can't imagine how it would be significantly detrimental, especially since HTC usually does such a good job making very detailed 3D models with very low polygon counts.

Quote
Does beg the question as to why ancient games like Mig Alley and Falcon 4.0 could render such things with ease and it couldn't be done in AH without causing a framerate problem. Neither of those games were MMO so there was no issue of data transfer...could that be the reason?
I also don't understand how data transfer would come into the equation. If you just have a static 3D model you don't need to say 'hey there's a pilot in here'. I've always thought it was just an artistic decision. However personally I'd much rather see pilots in the cockpit, since the cockpits seem very empty, especially after the addition of shadows.
Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: LLogann on December 13, 2009, 01:18:54 PM
I have bet my own so many times, I figured I'd give yours a shot.  Calm down and count to 10 Mother, this is the internet.  

And no I can't, I'm lazy..... Do it your darn self.  http://forum.framerateissues.com/

Well I guess it means a lot to bet the life of some one you've never met before over the internet... anyway...

Could you explain to me 'what the video card sees'? Because just looking at it it looks like the game displays a semi transparent bitmap (like oil damage or blood spatters that we have in game) over the span of the canopy glass. Unless you have a problem with oil damage or blood spatters I can't imagine why something like this would cause you trouble.
I don't see why it would be a framerate killer? We already have a visible pilot inside the cockpit at lower LOD's. At the highest LOD you would just have the pilot instead of the empty seat. A few extra polygons and another 1mb texture. I can't imagine how it would be significantly detrimental, especially since HTC usually does such a good job making very detailed 3D models with very low polygon counts.
I also don't understand how data transfer would come into the equation. If you just have a static 3D model you don't need to say 'hey there's a pilot in here'. I've always thought it was just an artistic decision. However personally I'd much rather see pilots in the cockpit, since the cockpits seem very empty, especially after the addition of shadows.
Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: Motherland on December 14, 2009, 02:12:26 PM
I have bet my own so many times, I figured I'd give yours a shot.  Calm down and count to 10 Mother, this is the internet. 
Err.... calm down? OK....

Quote
And no I can't, I'm lazy..... Do it your darn self.  http://forum.framerateissues.com/
I want to know why you think it would hurt framerates, not whether it actually would... that's two completely different subjects. If I went looking for how something like the OP could murder framerates, I could look for hours and not find anything... because it wouldn't.

By the way, if you honestly think that displaying a simple semi transparent bitmap over the canopy would massacre framerates, you probably shouldn't fly fighters, or use the Ostwind or Wirblewind, as the reflector sight is the same thing.

You definitely shouldn't fly the RV8 either, as it has exactly what the op is asking for (albeit not very pronounced by default)
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/AK_Comrade/YOUREWRONG1.jpg)


These are the guilty files in the process...
I'll warn you the masses of data stored in them could slow your computer to a crawl.... if you don't believe me look it up....

First a 8 bit, 512x512px, 257KB bitmap named ENV.bmp(twice my RAM!)
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/AK_Comrade/ENV.jpg)

And another 8 bit, 128x128px 17KB bitmap named XENV.bmp(more resource intensive than Windows Vista!)
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/AK_Comrade/XENV.jpg)
Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: gyrene81 on December 14, 2009, 02:40:05 PM
Motherland...the OP is looking for a direct reflection of the cockpit interior showing whatever would in reality be reflected on the glass based on the sun's position...it also has to be dynamic in that as the position of the sun changes while the plane is moving, turning, rolling, climbing, the reflected objects change not only in content but shape...that is a hell of a lot more rendering, even in semi-transparent form than the examples you posted.
Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: Motherland on December 14, 2009, 02:41:51 PM
Motherland...the OP is looking for a direct reflection of the cockpit interior showing whatever would in reality be reflected on the glass based on the sun's position...it also has to be dynamic in that as the position of the sun changes while the plane is moving, turning, rolling, climbing, the reflected objects change not only in content but shape...that is a hell of a lot more rendering, even in semi-transparent form than the examples you posted.
Correction... what was posted as an example from Falcon 4.0 is exactly what we see in the RV8.
Toki also makes references to MiG Alley and says what he's thinking of would be possible with one texture so I'm not so sure that he means something truly dynamic in the OP, though it would be nice. And probably not too intensive considering we already have basically the same thing with the water.
Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: gyrene81 on December 14, 2009, 02:47:59 PM
True...if it were just a static transparency showing a semi realistic reflection it shouldn't be much more of a frame hitter than the oil on a cockpit...as long as it didn't have to change...my next question would then be, since we don't have the ability to change our virtual pilot visual focus, wouldn't it get annoying to have that in your view when you're trying to locate an enemy dot?
Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: Motherland on December 14, 2009, 02:49:24 PM
True...if it were just a static transparency showing a semi realistic reflection it shouldn't be much more of a frame hitter than the oil on a cockpit...as long as it didn't have to change...my next question would then be, since we don't have the ability to change our virtual pilot visual focus, wouldn't it get annoying to have that in your view when you're trying to locate an enemy dot?
As long as it's not too dark it wouldn't be a problem... you could probably have an alpha slider for it like we do for the gunsight.
There's no issue seeing anything in the RV8, though, again, it's not very pronounced.
Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: Kurtank on December 14, 2009, 07:22:01 PM
That reflection is on the wing, broski. Not the canopy.
Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: Motherland on December 14, 2009, 07:25:51 PM
That reflection is on the wing, broski. Not the canopy.
-There's no mechanism in the game for dynamic reflection off of plane parts
-There's no reflection on the external RV8 texture
-That pattern is present in the texture which is applied over the canopy
-I've screwed with the texture that is applied over the canopy to understand how it works a bit better

This is the external RV8 texture. I there's no reflection on the wing
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/AK_Comrade/RV81.jpg)


What you're seeing is in this texture, about half way down on the right side. This texture is applied semi-transparently on the canopy.
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/AK_Comrade/ENV.jpg)
Title: Re: Reflected light that reflects in windshield of cockpit
Post by: Kazaa on December 15, 2009, 07:51:36 PM
+ 10000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000 :aok

This would top the eye candy off for me.