Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: kamori on December 15, 2009, 08:40:51 AM
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Heres the idea. Why not have it so when a person get a YOU COLLIDED WITH or whatever it says. That person sits in the tower (cannot up) for a few minutes. I think it would slow down the pourposeful rams. If you disagree consider why we have ENY.
KAM
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(http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/sign/sign0142.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-fighting-smileys.php)
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If you get the YOU collided message you collided, not the other guy. If you get the xxxx collided with you then it could have merit. On the other hand HTC isn't going to penalize people for ramming unless it become the move that surplants the HO.
What does the ENY have to do with ramming? ENY is abalancing tool used to cut back the uber equipment from the side that has better numbers.
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You just have to get...
(http://www.buckleshop.com/images/ba512e.jpg)
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Heres the idea. Why not have it so when a person get a YOU COLLIDED WITH or whatever it says. That person sits in the tower (cannot up) for a few minutes. I think it would slow down the pourposeful rams. If you disagree consider why we have ENY.
KAM
That does not happen. Collisions were put in the game so that people would not intentionally fly through planes. As I have been told by the experts, it is working and therefore there is no way anyone is causing a collision intentionaly :rofl
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Do you really think that people collide on purpose? I have never experienced that myself..... I have Seen ( i am talking about visually see them come thru my plane)collision's that were not detected on my end but kill the other player..... I would like to know how long of lag the computer waits for before it decides who get the collision.
<S>
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That does not happen. Collisions were put in the game so that people would not intentionally fly through planes. As I have been told by the experts, it is working and therefore there is no way anyone is causing a collision intentional :rofl
Too funny They do happen and many times one gets no damage and the other goes down or is forced to end sortie..Very true
What does the ENY have to do with ramming? ENY is a balancing tool used to cut back the uber equipment from the side that has better numbers.
ENY is a fairness tool...so, This idea is one also. Its coming more prevalent that others are not avoiding the collision weather in a scissors or a head on pass and other maneuvers. I would like to see people think more about their ACM and getting the other guy dead by their skill and NOT by them ramming just to end the fight. The game as a whole is getting worse as the years go by. There used to be some standards when I got into the game 7 - 8 years ago. If a collision happened MOST would apologize and feel bad. Now its a tactic. I view it as a degradation of the community.
I know there's a quote out there about this but all in all it comes down to this. "Peoples behavior unchecked without consequences evolves into Kaos"
KAM
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If you can prove it happens, we'll consider it.
Please show me film where someone intentionally was able to run into the other guy and cause damage to that plane.
Everything I've ever seen shows the guy trying to ram dieing for no or little effect.
But hey, please, prove me wrong.
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Too funny They do happen and many times one gets no damage and the other goes down or is forced to end sortie..Very true
Almost all those collisions that are called "intentional rams" - aren't.
It's even very hard against a non- maneuvering bomber, but against a moving fighter it's almost impossible - you have to hit HIS plane on HIS screen, but you don't know the exact position of his and your own plane on his screen.
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Its coming more prevalent that others are not avoiding the collision weather in a scissors or a head on pass and other maneuvers.
So the other guy is supposed to avoid the collision and give you turning room?
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If you can prove it happens, we'll consider it.
Please show me film where someone intentionally was able to run into the other guy and cause damage to that plane.
Everything I've ever seen shows the guy trying to ram dieing for no or little effect.
But hey, please, prove me wrong.
Ill start running film more. Heres the Real point. If pilots fly with a fear of connecting with another aircraft then it will improve the skill level of the pilot. We would be conscious of the other guy and ourselves in as to change the ACM for better position. Time after time I either don't shoot or avoid a collision in preference of colliding. The best example I have of this is in the DA. Most of the time collisions are avoided as to not ruin the fight and if they happen its apologies all the way. I don't care about the apologies its more about the improvement this idea could bring.
KAM
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So the other guy is supposed to avoid the collision and give you turning room?
If pilots fly with a fear of connecting with another aircraft then it will improve the skill level of the pilot. We would be conscious of the other guy and ourselves in as to change the ACM for better position.
KAM
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Heres the idea. Why not have it so when a person get a YOU COLLIDED WITH or whatever it says. That person sits in the tower (cannot up) for a few minutes. I think it would slow down the pourposeful rams. If you disagree consider why we have ENY.
KAM
I don't see how disagreeing with your wish and ENY have any relation to one another.
For the record, I disagree with your wish and I think it's pointless.
ack-ack
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Only you can prevent the collisions on your end.
There IS no ram.
Trust that, and learn to not fly "quite" so close, and you'll stop colliding.
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Heres the idea. Why not have it so when a person get a YOU COLLIDED WITH or whatever it says. That person sits in the tower (cannot up) for a few minutes. I think it would slow down the pourposeful rams. If you disagree consider why we have ENY.
KAM
ya could just keep a safe distance. :noid :bolt:
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I personally think that when two planes collide with eachother that both pilot have to leave the game as their toon peelot is dead.
I think this is only fair..... we can't have this sort of thing.
I vote we put AKAK in charge of going to Dallas and get this run through.
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So, some of you actually believe that you can ram someone and give them damage, yet not get damaged yourself???
Do you realize it's actually the other way around? I'd have to miss you on my FE, but hit you on yours, for that to happen.
If I hit you on my FE, I take damage. If I miss you on my FE, I don't. Same thing goes for you. Seems plenty fair, and a deterrent is built right in...
Run film? What do you plan to see? The only way that film would be "proof" is if you can show yourself ramming someone and not taking any damage yourself. Are you going to film yourself flying around ramming people?
Showing film of someone else hitting you and not taking damage himself doesn't prove your point, due to lag.
So, for ramming to work to my advantage, I'd have to fly very close to you, but not hit you. (Essentially, if I see myself hit you, I'll have actually missed you (unless you're nearly stationary) since your plane is not where I see it (your plane is actually somewhere out in front of where it appears to be on my screen). In that case we'd both take damage). In addition to not hitting you, I'd have to figure out a way for you to see a collision on your end.
So, I suppose if I could barely miss you by flying in front of you, I could occasionally luck out and you might see a collision on you end. Of course, since I succeeded in missing you, and no collision occurred on my end, why should I take damage?
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So, some of you actually believe that you can ram someone and give them damage, yet not get damaged yourself???
Do you realize it's actually the other way around? I'd have to miss you on my FE, but hit you on yours, for that to happen.
If I hit you on my FE, I take damage. If I miss you on my FE, I don't. Same thing goes for you. Seems plenty fair, and a deterrent is built right in...
Run film? What do you plan to see? The only way that film would be "proof" is if you can show yourself ramming someone and not taking any damage yourself. Are you going to film yourself flying around ramming people?
Showing film of someone else hitting you and not taking damage himself doesn't prove your point, due to lag.
So, for ramming to work to my advantage, I'd have to fly very close to you, but not hit you. (Essentially, if I see myself hit you, I'll have actually missed you (unless you're nearly stationary) since your plane is not where I see it (your plane is actually somewhere out in front of where it appears to be on my screen). In that case we'd both take damage). In addition to not hitting you, I'd have to figure out a way for you to see a collision on your end.
So, I suppose if I could barely miss you by flying in front of you, I could occasionally luck out and you might see a collision on you end. Of course, since I succeeded in missing you, and no collision occurred on my end, why should I take damage?
i think if you were to do a search, someone posted a film of themselves causing a collision,,,,,,and if i recall, they took no damage from it.
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Have to look for it but wasnt there a Shane film posted on these boards where he caused a ram on purpose, came from underneath got in front and slowed down or something to that effect. I'll have to find the film and see if thats the case.
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Just crash to the earth & get another plane.
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i think if you were to do a search, someone posted a film of themselves causing a collision,,,,,,and if i recall, they took no damage from it.
It might have been me, even, lol. I'm not sure if I ever posted those films or not...
The thing was, if I actually hit the other guy, I took damage, not him. If he saw me hit him on his end, he took damage, but in every case it was a miss on my end, so I took no damage...
In every case, neither of us ever saw the same thing, so we never both took damage...
The simple result we were left with is this- if your FE senses a collision, you'll take damage, and it doesn't matter who's "at fault". If your FE doesn't sense a collision, you'll take no damage.
So, quite simply, if you don't want to take collision damage, you should make every effort to not bump into the other guy, or allow him to bump into you... The collision model already gives us incentive to avoid collisions; what were we hoping to change?
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sometimes wen i run outta bullets i like to run my plane into the back..... to the base to re-arm my plane, and challenge the good sir to a most respectable equal playing field dogfight :noid
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sometimes wen i run outta bullets i like to run my plane into the back..... to the base to re-arm my plane, and challenge the good sir to a most respectable equal playing field dogfight :noid
From my experimenting and filming, we found the six o'clock position to be the absolute worst if you wanted to have any hope of an intentional ram occurring, hehe. If I tried to ram the other guy from the back, I always died, every single time, before I even came close to hitting him. I saw the hit, and died. He saw me just fall apart behind him. We also found speed mattered. The slower the better, and the less closure the better.
But again, we had to try to miss each other to cause the ram. We had to try to predict where the other guy was on his FE, as well as where we were on his FE.
Not easy considering the variance in lag...
And see, our films all showed that it was very difficult (as in, we never succeeded) in causing damage to the other guy through intentional ramming. That didn't lead us to assume it was impossible, just unlikely to be purposely achievable on a regular basis. It also opened us up to being shot, since we would need to put ourselves in his flight path.
I guess that's a possibility; fly right in front of someone hoping that they don't shoot you, but take damage from a collision instead?
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Yes, there is a film of shane doing it. It was also a very odd circumstance where the other player was inexplicably flying straight and level and completely ignoring Shane's faster aircraft. Then Shane got lucky that his manouever caused the other guy to register a collision on his computer while Shane missed the other player by feet on his computer.
To think this happens regularly is laughable.
It would also be absolutely impossible for the game to recognize when such a collision occurred intentionally or in the normal course of gameplay, making the suggestion there should be some kind of penalty on the plane that DID NOT COLLIDE even more laughable.
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You should know by now E25280 that there are just some uber experten players that the only way they could be shot down is if the other guy intentionally rammed him.
ack-ack
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Have to look for it but wasnt there a Shane film posted on these boards where he caused a ram on purpose, came from underneath got in front and slowed down or something to that effect. I'll have to find the film and see if thats the case.
yes....that's who it was.
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Yes, there is a film of shane doing it. It was also a very odd circumstance where the other player was inexplicably flying straight and level and completely ignoring Shane's faster aircraft. Then Shane got lucky that his manouever caused the other guy to register a collision on his computer while Shane missed the other player by feet on his computer.
To think this happens regularly is laughable.
It would also be absolutely impossible for the game to recognize when such a collision occurred intentionally or in the normal course of gameplay, making the suggestion there should be some kind of penalty on the plane that DID NOT COLLIDE even more laughable.
i don't believe it happens regularly.....and never intended to insinuate that.
i was simply stating that somone posted a film showing it being done.
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"I don't believe it happens regularly.....and never intended to insinuate that"
My feelings as well, cant remember yesterday but remembered that film.
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When we experimented on it it was done because we had such a problem doing what we were actually trying to do. We were initially trying to land a fighter on top of a bomber, piggy-back style.
Invariably, if I was in the fighter and lined up to land on the bomber, I saw myself just barely touch it and big parts would break off of me. The bomber pilot, watching from the gunner position, would just see me break up and fall away while still behind him. I'd see the smoke of my wheels touching him, then "bang!" I'd have no wing...
In my view, my main gear barely touched his wings. In his view I was still behind his tail. He could have shot me with his tail gun. This was at nearly zero closure, where I would expect the results of lag to be the least. I'd expect lag to be the most prevalent at high speed and opposite headings.
When we swapped positions, we had exactly the same experience. I saw him fall apart behind me, while he saw himself touch his wheels on my "shoulder", and then he broke apart... The lag was equal, regardless of who was following/leading. This was with one of us on dial-up, and one on high-speed. Experienced lag is supposed to be the "total sum" of both opponents, and that appeared to be the case. My high-lag, plus his lower-lag combined to give us the total.
Now, had we practiced, I have no doubt we could have figured out a way to make that work so we could reliably cause collisions for the other player (for example, all I would have needed to do was "park" myself about 100yds in front of the bomber; he'd have seen a collision...). But, what about other players with differing amounts of lag? How would I know how much I'd need to adjust for each player? What if we factor in different speeds and closure-rates? It ends up just being luck...
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i don't believe it happens regularly.....and never intended to insinuate that.
i was simply stating that somone posted a film showing it being done.
But you apparently missed the point. Shane missed the other plane on his computer. If you miss the other plane on your computer, you don't collide. It's not impossible for someone to hit you, but if you're in a fight it's almost certainly not going to be intentional, because he doesn't know where you are on your front end, just his.
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This is tangentially related to this topic, but it's interesting.
I was at a panel discussion of WWII pilots last weekend at the Museum of Flight in Seattle. One of the panelists was Ralph Foltz of VF-15 (flew Hellcats from USS Essex, 5 kills). He said that pilots were sometimes told that, if they had run out of ammo, they should try to take the tail off their adversary using their props. He was in a fight once down on the deck where he saw a fellow Hellcat chasing a Zero go for that maneuver. "The Hellcat got closer and closer to the Zero and then took its tail off. The Zero went right into the water, and so did the Hellcat."
I think collisions should be part of the game, and I think they work about as well as you can manage with network delays (i.e., you get a collision if it looks like a collision from your view).
(Also in the panel discussion were Ralph Jenkins, P-47 pilot in 9th AF, 4 air-to-air kills, lots and lots of ground attack, train busting, attacking GV's, Panzer groups, etc., including what he thought at the time might have been the attack on Rommel's staff car; Harry Ferrier, VT-8 in Battle of Midway, TBF Avenger radioman/gunner on that one TBF that made it back heavily damaged to Midway; and Kelly Gross, P-51 pilot, 6 kills including one Me 262, and including being shot down by an infantryman's rifle bullet once in a P-51 but surviving having 2 cylinders shot out of his engine by a 20 mm cannon round when earlier he flew P-47's and not even knowing he was hit -- not even a rough-running engine, he said.)
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I was diving on a flight of B26s in MW last night and did not realize he pulled up into me. When I realized he had pulled up it was too late. He lost one of his 26s and I lost an engine and a wing. Had I not been going so fast I might have been able to pull out of the dive... oh and if not for that tree. :D
Been playing on a machine that is great for other things... just not gaming. Video turned all the way down. Should have my new build online tonight. Should make a difference in how much ammo I've been using up. :rofl