Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: RTHolmes on December 21, 2009, 10:00:54 AM
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8419147.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8419147.stm)
so, someone decided that there was no need to bother encrypting the video feed from predator drones. wtf? wonder if the control data is encrypted too? :rolleyes:
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8419147.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8419147.stm)
so, someone decided that there was no need to bother encrypting the video feed from predator drones. wtf? wonder if the control data is encrypted too? :rolleyes:
Old news and dead issue. The video feeds are unencrypted for a reason. The C&C links are heavily encrypted. This "feet" is precisely as amazing as turning on an old TV and getting over the air broadcasts.
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The video feeds are unencrypted for a reason. The C&C links are heavily encrypted. This "feet" is precisely as amazing as turning on an old TV and getting over the air broadcasts.
what possible reason could that be? surely you can see that having a realtime view from the enemies recon drones would give a military advantage? wonder if they were geotagged...
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what possible reason could that be? surely you can see that having a realtime view from the enemies recon drones would give a military advantage? wonder if they were geotagged...
Well, if you pull up a drone feed and see it looking at you, does it really matter? What are you going to do, pack up your satellite dish and make a run for it? You're still locked up. You can't out-run a hellfire.
Also, troops on the ground have a hard enough time simply having radio comms with jets in their area, being on different frequencies. Want to try a widely dispersed force that needs a rolling encryption key that's changed every day? Not gonna work well. It's about simplicity. Pull up the feed as you need it, instantly, use it, move on.
As for tactical advantage, if I show you a patch of dirt with you standing in it.. what advantage did you just get? You still don't know where my own forces are maneuvering to envelope that spotted position.
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well I'll be sitting in a rented room with a bunch of screens and comms eating a kebab. maybe I'll tell the guys being observed to stop what theyre doing and go home, then tell my other comrades that they arent being observed, so they can carry on with whatever they are doing...
on a basic level, knowing what the enemy is doing is useful, doing it so they dont know you're doing it is even better.
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Well, if you pull up a drone feed and see it looking at you, does it really matter? What are you going to do, pack up your satellite dish and make a run for it? You're still locked up. You can't out-run a hellfire.
Also, troops on the ground have a hard enough time simply having radio comms with jets in their area, being on different frequencies. Want to try a widely dispersed force that needs a rolling encryption key that's changed every day? Not gonna work well. It's about simplicity. Pull up the feed as you need it, instantly, use it, move on.
As for tactical advantage, if I show you a patch of dirt with you standing in it.. what advantage did you just get? You still don't know where my own forces are maneuvering to envelope that spotted position.
Your opinion is noted... and it is one dimensional. Exactly the kind of thinking that left the video feeds unguarded.
If you know WHERE your enemy is looking, you can move any vital assets away from that location.... or just drop your AK and pick up a shovel, and be a farmer for 5 minutes.
Also, it gives you intelligence as to exactly what your enemy THINKS you are doing. This gives you the advantage to manipulate his force structure to chase whatever rabbits you put out there for him, leaving you free to maneuver your real forces as you wish. This gives you a tactical advantage on the battlefield.
It can be just as easy as knowing where the drone is. It's a lot easier to hit something like that with a shoulder launched SAM, when you already know where to look and point.
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As for tactical advantage, if I show you a patch of dirt with you standing in it.. what advantage did you just get? You still don't know where my own forces are maneuvering to envelope that spotted position.
By intercepting the feeds, they can potentially learn what areas are under survellience by the drones.
ack-ack
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well I'll be sitting in a rented room with a bunch of screens and comms eating a kebab. maybe I'll tell the guys being observed to stop what theyre doing and go home, then tell my other comrades that they arent being observed, so they can carry on with whatever they are doing...
on a basic level, knowing what the enemy is doing is useful, doing it so they dont know you're doing it is even better.
You want to sit around and put all your faith in videos that I'm streaming you? Okay. You do that lol. It's not like the US Army has people for a little thing called Counter-Intelligence, and could stream any video off of that link they wanted, including ones of totally fake telemetry.
The lack of imagination here is staggering.
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oh nooo alibubu and kasab just caught a rocket while in the road.... oh my goodness.
You want to sit around and put all your faith in videos that I'm streaming you? Okay. You do that lol. It's not like the US Army has people for a little thing called Counter-Intelligence, and could stream any video off of that link they wanted, including ones of totally fake telemetry.
The lack of imagination here is staggering.
lol I seem to recollect a body being dumped in the channel with a briefcase full of documents. Then the Brits chattering about a plane crash that had one of it's couriers on it.
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Cheesits. Enough with the baloney about "what do we lose?" or maybe it's
being done on purpose.
Moray37 and others have said it. NO reason for an open feed at all. Never show
any of your cards and it is assinine to let your enemy see what is is you're looking
at.
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You want to sit around and put all your faith in videos that I'm streaming you? Okay. You do that lol. It's not like the US Army has people for a little thing called Counter-Intelligence, and could stream any video off of that link they wanted, including ones of totally fake telemetry.
The lack of imagination here is staggering.
Some of the recovered data included drone footage of US military bases and assets. They were using your own gear to recon your bases. Now there's been some mighty stupid things been done in military history, but providing islamic nutjobs with a nice aerial view of your bases ranks up the top there imho.
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You want to sit around and put all your faith in videos that I'm streaming you? Okay. You do that lol. It's not like the US Army has people for a little thing called Counter-Intelligence, and could stream any video off of that link they wanted, including ones of totally fake telemetry.
The lack of imagination here is staggering.
The lack of open-mindedness here is also staggering.
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Yeah, how the hell can anyone think, oh it's no big deal that they saw the footage. If your enemy knows what your looking at it gives them the decided advantage to not do anything in that area.
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Keep in mind that this technology is still evolving, these drones that are being used today were developed many years ago and funding was a major problem just to get prototypes out into the field, (without naming any cost cutting presidents), due to the cost involved with encryption and the associated support system this probably was something that was considered "fat" in that project so something had to be cut to keep it alive.
With the use of drones even more popular now than ever since being able to use it as a firing platform instead of a stand alone monitoring system, you can bet the next generation of drones will be fully outfitted to prevent things like this. Just my two cents.
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Yeah, how the hell can anyone think, oh it's no big deal that they saw the footage. If your enemy knows what your looking at it gives them the decided advantage to not do anything in that area.
That's not true. Not even close to true. If I put up a camera over a say... a dam, a piece of critical infrastructure. You're no longer going to attack it, at all? That's great. Using the logic from this thread, all we need is Biden's drone cloud, and there won't be any attacks. Obviously they can't do it if we can see the entire region at once.
That's not even touching on the technology they actually use to detect areas of interest, like ground mapping radar that can cover an area, come back 5 minutes later, and detect footprints in the ground... which is in use already on drones and can't be viewed as a nifty over the air stream like the current unencrypted video links.
They secured the command & control. If video was that important, they would've secured that too. No real differences.
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Yeah I guess your right, who cares if they can see the live streams off our drones, no possible way that could compromise anything at all. I mean hell why don't we just start a USALiveDroneFeed.com website, at least this way we can maybe charge them a subscription fee. :aok
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This ranks right up there with not putting locks on airline cockpit doors until you have a problem.
Now,(after it comes to light that the V-feeds were being intercepted by johnny jihad) we'll encrypt them!
To propose that the feeds aren't of tactical interest to the enemy may be understating the significance of this com sec breech.
From the link:
"Obtaining such video feeds could provide insurgents with information about sites the military might be planning to target."
Layman's illustration as how this info may be helpful to the enemy:
Enemy:
"Let's avoid and or move assets out of this area to protect them."
"Let's change that get-together with the upper commanders to another spot." (Missed opportunity to Hellfire some big dogs. Said big-dogs live to plan another day and another few thousand lives are lost down the road.)
If the feeds are of no significant use to the enemy then why work to get them encrypted now?
From the link:
"The unnamed official said the US defense department had addressed the issue by working to encrypt all video feeds provided by drones in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan."
If the reason to encrypt them now is to close a security hole then why weren't they encrypted before?
Add this to the mix:they've known about this since the 1990s.
"U.S. lawmakers called on the White House to quickly fill vacant cybersecurity posts in the wake of revelations that Iraqi insurgents have learned to intercept video feeds from unmanned military drones.
Lawmakers also expressed frustration that no action was taken until this year, even though the vulnerability of the video feeds had been known since the 1990s. The story was first reported Thursday by The Wall Street Journal.
"It outrages me that this vulnerability was known since the 1990s, and they never fixed the problem," said Rep. James Langevin, a Rhode Island Democrat and a member of the intelligence and armed services committees. "It makes them look like a bunch of Keystone Kops. Who else had access to these video feeds?"
Rep. Langevin said he would press for answers when Congress returns in the New Year: "They're going to get both barrels when I return to D.C.""
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/12/18/drone-breach-stirs-calls-cyber-post/
Don't forget what overlooking the obvious allowed in 2001...see cockpit locks above.
Regards,
Sun
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That's a lovely way to make counter-recon easy and cheap for the opfor. Surely there must been US forces in the drone's view, especially when returning to the launch site.
Not so surprisingly a texan was the first to defend the unencrypted feed. Just like I guessed before opening the thread. :devil
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That's not true. Not even close to true. If I put up a camera over a say... a dam, a piece of critical infrastructure. You're no longer going to attack it, at all? That's great. Using the logic from this thread, all we need is Biden's drone cloud, and there won't be any attacks. Obviously they can't do it if we can see the entire region at once.
That's not even touching on the technology they actually use to detect areas of interest, like ground mapping radar that can cover an area, come back 5 minutes later, and detect footprints in the ground... which is in use already on drones and can't be viewed as a nifty over the air stream like the current unencrypted video links.
They secured the command & control. If video was that important, they would've secured that too. No real differences.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here- If the feeds were of no real tactical importance to our enemies then...doesn't it stand to reason that it's not important to us? If they aren't important then WHY do we even have them?
However using that logic if said V-feeds ARE important to us ( and they are BTW) then they MUST be of importance to our enemies for pretty much all the reasons stated already.
ANYTHING that is of importance to your enemies will be important to you, no matter how trivial YOU may think it to be, Not to mention the fact that if they could get our V-feeds and freqs then what else can they get to? And yes I'm well aware that the C & C is encrypted but, consider this: If they encryption was designed or even just decided on by the same "rocket scientists" that came up with the brilliant idea of NOT encrypting the drones V-feeds then .........how good do ya think it really is? Was it top shelf top sekrit encryption or was it the basic encryption that you can D/L off the net for free or for a " trial period" :noid
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(without naming any cost cutting presidents), due to the cost involved with encryption and the associated support system this probably was something that was considered "fat" in that project so something had to be cut to keep it alive.
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If the reason to encrypt them now is to close a security hole then why weren't they encrypted before?
Add this to the mix:they've known about this since the 1990s.
"U.S. lawmakers called on the White House to quickly fill vacant cybersecurity posts in the wake of revelations that Iraqi insurgents have learned to intercept video feeds from unmanned military drones.
Lawmakers also expressed frustration that no action was taken until this year, even though the vulnerability of the video feeds had been known since the 1990s. The story was first reported Thursday by The Wall Street Journal.
"It outrages me that this vulnerability was known since the 1990s, and they never fixed the problem," said Rep. James Langevin, a Rhode Island Democrat and a member of the intelligence and armed services committees. "It makes them look like a bunch of Keystone Kops. Who else had access to these video feeds?"
Rep. Langevin said he would press for answers when Congress returns in the New Year: "They're going to get both barrels when I return to D.C.""
=
MONEY
Now take a guess at what president that would be.........