Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: HighGTrn on December 21, 2009, 02:56:31 PM
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I've spent some time searching (which isn't easy using AH's search feature cause you can't specify advanced options like date and such) the forums for some information and couldn't really find what I was looking for.
My box of Saitek rudder pedals is coming via UPS today (finally). I've heard all kinds of urban legends about the use of pedals and would like the straight scoop. Right now, I have a twisty stick. There are alot of information about setting up the pedals and getting it to work but I did not see much about the actual use of the pedals.
Some of what I heard goes like this:
1. You're gonna get shot down alot the first few weeks of using them cause they are gonna do terrible things to your flying.
2. Your aim is gonna go right out the window till you get used to them cause they do terrible things to your aim.
3. You're gonna stall alot so that means you are gonna die alot.
4. You're gonna die alot anyways cause you are not used to using them.
As you can see the common thread here is that I'm gonna die alot because I have to get used to them. Ok, I'll take that as a given. However, what I want to know is if there is any advice I can implement that will shorten that learning curve. I know there are alot of pedal users out there and I've seen them do some pretty crazy things in the game.
One more note. Most of my kills are done without using any rudder input (as much I know anyways). If this is the case, the pedals shouldn't matter right? Also, should I change my scaling for yaw since I'm gonna be using the rudders? If so, anyone recommend some settings?
Thanks in advance.
S1n1ster
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When I got my first set of pedals, it seemed much more natural to me... I always hated the twisty stick.
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Generally, I think if you're getting killed more because of your new pedals, it's due to two things.
1- The "New Toy" syndrome. You'll use/overuse them because you're excited about the new toy.
2- You just aren't used to them, and are somewhat "uncoordinated" yet.
Both of those problems go away eventually.
You can't do anything flight-wise with pedals that you can't do with a twisty stick. No "crazy things in the game" rely on pedals.
You can easily feed in some accidental/inadvertent control inputs with a twisty stick. That's a big argument for why some prefer pedals (I do). On the other hand, you can inadvertently feed in some control input with the pedals too.
Gunnery- See # 1 and 2 above. Will your gunnery improve with pedals in the long run? Maybe. I wouldn't say gunnery is pedal-dependent.
Not using rudder- I RTB when my rudder gets damaged. I may stick around for another kill, or to get out of the fight, but I consider the rudder to be as important as any other control surface. It gets used A LOT.
Scaling- I scale it like my elevators and ailerons. Straight line across the top (no scaling). Some prefer to do otherwise.
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In a month you'll wonder what you ever did without them. All I can say is practice, practice, practice. They won't cause you to be shot down more often, but once you get the hang of them you will start winning scissor fights that you would have previously lost.
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Your pedals are going to make things easier for you but continue to spread the fear so no one else catches on to 'the big secret of uber pilots.'
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First thing I noticed a big difference is the last second before you squeeze the trigger. You'd be amazed how big of a difference just a tiny rudder input makes and don't realize it until you twist your stick and nothing happens. :aok
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Don't give up you will learn them. From squad mates that have added them it has taken about a month. At first you may not be as good but in the end you will wonder how you ever flew without them.
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When i got mine it felt SO much more natural. Maybe this is from flying in RL? who knows, but within a day I was MUCH more precisely maneuvering the aircraft!
Sol
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Something to watch for: For a while when I got them I was forgetting to take my foot off the pedal after I fed in some rudder. So I'd fly for a while and be losing more speed until I noticed I was still on the pedal. Not sure how common that is but it took me a while to learn how not to do that.
Also, I never used the Saiteks but with CH pedals it works better to just push the pedal with your toes, as opposed to having your whole foot on the pedal. At least for me that is. Except for landing, then I'll put my feet on them so i can use both the rudder and toe brakes.
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Something to watch for: For a while when I got them I was forgetting to take my foot off the pedal after I fed in some rudder. So I'd fly for a while and be losing more speed until I noticed I was still on the pedal. Not sure how common that is but it took me a while to learn how not to do that.Also, I never used the Saiteks work but with CH pedals it works better to just push the pedal with your toes, as opposed to having your whole foot on the pedal. At least for me that is. Except for landing, then I'll put my feet on them so i can use both the rudder and toe brakes.
The bold part is Absolute TRUTH .... Great Tip you pointed out and it is VERY Common :aok
As for scaling, I scale the same as mtnman, 100% all sliders cross the top.......... yes this is SCALING, the game is not default to these settings...
I also add a tad bit of Deadband for I rest my feet on my pedals, this helps me avoid in unwarranted input.......
Good Luck .... You gonna be glad you got Pedals :airplane:
hope this helps
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For a while when I got them I was forgetting to take my foot off the pedal after I fed in some rudder. So I'd fly for a while and be losing more speed until I noticed I was still on the pedal. Not sure how common that is
Been there, done that ;)
Learned not to wear any shoes when playing AH :lol
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Ok, got my pedals last night, installed them and got online. I felt like so uncoordinated. I found myself twisting the stick vs. pushing pedals. It took 10 or so sorties before I finally got a kill. Spent the rest of the night in the DA trying to get used to them.
I never realized how much rudder input I used to line up shots until now. To me, looks like most of the things I heard were true.
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I had to put a lot of dead-band in mine, because I always rest my feet on them. I end up triggering the rudder one way or the other, without realizing it.
Seems to work pretty good for me now.
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I've spent some time searching (which isn't easy using AH's search feature cause you can't specify advanced options like date and such) the forums for some information and couldn't really find what I was looking for.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=search;advanced;search=
Advanced search ;) .
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Took me about 1 week to get used to my pedals. It's a lot easier to change from twisty stick to rudder pedals than it is to change from the hat switch to TrackIR (Though I do recommend getting both. Pedals to increase gunnery accuracy and TrackIR for better SA).
For me my gunnery was better the instant I used pedals against planes, but ground targets will be harder. Just don't worry about how long it will take you to get used to the pedals because once you do, you'll love them! :aok
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peddles are the way to go, it will take a bit (around a month for me) to get used to them like youve been using them all along, my first 4 years was with a twisty stick, so it might have taken me longer then some, they WILL improve your aim, once you get used to them.
my only advice is dont give up.
INK
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Ok, its been several weeks and almost a month since I started using these pedals. Last night, I got so frustrated, I unplugged them and put them on the shelf. I've tried everything. I think I just have a heavy foot or something.
The final straw was when I went into a spin and crashed (could not recover no matter what I did) during a routine fight (something I hardly ever did before I started using the pedals). Maybe I'll dig them up in a few months and try again but my frustration level is getting to a boiling point. :furious
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Hey HighGTrn , I will buy them from you if you want to sell .. PM me .
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Ok, its been several weeks and almost a month since I started using these pedals. Last night, I got so frustrated, I unplugged them and put them on the shelf. I've tried everything. I think I just have a heavy foot or something.
The final straw was when I went into a spin and crashed (could not recover no matter what I did) during a routine fight (something I hardly ever did before I started using the pedals). Maybe I'll dig them up in a few months and try again but my frustration level is getting to a boiling point. :furious
Chances are, if you are having that much of a problem getting acclimated to pedals, it probably means that you are "over Using them"... My advice would be to start every play session with 5 or 10 minutes in the TA just doing coordinated (step on the ball) turns. Then in the MA, work on flying smooth coordinated turns to and from the fights (and during the fights as much as possible). Resist the temptation to be constantly stomping the rudder one way or another during a fight. Small inputs at first. Over time, it will be more natural to you and you'll have a better feel for when to really kick the rudder hard and when to just use the rudder for a little help turning.
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Stupid question, but are your pedals calibrated and working properly? Have you used F3 view on the ground to check if your rudder is moving through it's full range of motion?
I use some really old analog CH pedals through a USB adaptor and often have calibration issues. Sometimes part way through a flight too. Either the pedals will lock full over to one side, sometimes while taking off and sometimes part way through a flight, or they will only move one way, which I usually notice when I cannot recover from a spin.
My issues are a result of computer "issues", I've had to recalibrate in windows game controllers often recently, or, somehow, the "range" of inputs in game change for me. The calibration range of numbers switch from 0 - 31000 to 0 - 64000 for some reason and I need to recalibrate in game.
Otherwise, maybe scale your pedals so you won't get full deflection until you push the pedals further in their range of movement.
wrongway
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Stick with it S1n1ster. Only two weeks so far, it took me a least a month to get comfortable. I spun out a lot too getting used to them. Usually because I kicked some rudder and then left my foot there, slowly bleeding off my speed, eventually either getting killed or crashing. Quite frustrating.
Also, as TC advised upthread, you might want to add in a little deadband so you can rest on the pedals without giving any unwanted input.
After a while it'll become second nature.
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I would add some dead band and scale them some.Some have said they have scale all across the top. I tried that and it didn't work for me.I must have a heavy foot.Try having the first slider about the middle and then move each one up a little till the last two are at the top. Look at the scale and watch what it does imagine that you are flying when you do this.This helped me. Then adjustments them back to all across the top. Look at the scale you can see how much of a differance it is and where it will fit your style the best.You may have to play with it a little what works for one may not work for you.Start this with a clear head it may take a little while. First forget all the things you have read and start from scratch.I'm sure when you first got your 2 wheeler bike you weren't popping wheelies and jumping curbs. It took me 6 months before I was able to clear 4 garbage cans.
In the long run the twisty stick is hurting you,you can see how much you were useing it and slowing you down. Rudder kills speed when used in excess or to much deflection.
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Ok, its been several weeks and almost a month since I started using these pedals. Last night, I got so frustrated, I unplugged them and put them on the shelf. I've tried everything. I think I just have a heavy foot or something.
The final straw was when I went into a spin and crashed (could not recover no matter what I did) during a routine fight (something I hardly ever did before I started using the pedals). Maybe I'll dig them up in a few months and try again but my frustration level is getting to a boiling point. :furious
The spin/crash just sounds like over or improper controlling. That's something that will go away if you work at it. The pedals give you a more "pure" control of the rudder, so should actually improve your control once you figure them out.
Until then, I think the only cure will be to just work at it. Shelving them won't help, it'll just prolong the agony.
The easiest way to figure the pedals out, and make spin recovery "automatic" would probably be some time in the TA, purposely spinning and recovering. Overuse of the rudder often causes spins, especially at low speeds, so that's something to think about too. Are you spinning more now, than you were pre-pedals? That would lead me to believe you're over-using the rudder...
Get up nice and high, and spin it. Learn what the rudder does to "help" you (or cause you) to spin. That's what you want to avoid normally. Learn to recognize the signs of the spin before it occurs, so you don't push too far in a fight. And learn to recover quickly. Pay attention to how long (or how many revolutions) it takes for you to recover, and try to improve on that.
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The spin/crash just sounds like over or improper controlling. That's something that will go away if you work at it. The pedals give you a more "pure" control of the rudder, so should actually improve your control once you figure them out.
Until then, I think the only cure will be to just work at it. Shelving them won't help, it'll just prolong the agony.
The easiest way to figure the pedals out, and make spin recovery "automatic" would probably be some time in the TA, purposely spinning and recovering. Overuse of the rudder often causes spins, especially at low speeds, so that's something to think about too. Are you spinning more now, than you were pre-pedals? That would lead me to believe you're over-using the rudder...
Get up nice and high, and spin it. Learn what the rudder does to "help" you (or cause you) to spin. That's what you want to avoid normally. Learn to recognize the signs of the spin before it occurs, so you don't push too far in a fight. And learn to recover quickly. Pay attention to how long (or how many revolutions) it takes for you to recover, and try to improve on that.
to expound a bit further
steps to recover from a spin
1) De-Throttle
2) push stick all the way forward
3) apply opposite rudder of the spin
4) once you stop spinning pull back on the stick(gently) and apply throttle.
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Don't give up !!!
I had to scale mine a lot when I first started, then as I got more use to using my legs and feet I started taking the scaling out. It takes awhile to "teach" the big muscles in your legs to do small but quick and most of all smooth movements. Add a bunch of scaling and give it another go.
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Another biggie is to make sure that the twist stick is disabled or locked. Sometimes the lock can become disengaged causing imput from both the pedals and stick.
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Another biggie is to make sure that the twist stick is disabled or locked. Sometimes the lock can become disengaged causing imput from both the pedals and stick.
The Z axis on my stick was disabled as soon as I assigned it to the rudder pedals. If that's not the case for him, he can go into AH Control Settings and disable the stick's Z axis manually.
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Try inverting the z-axis, this made it easier for me because I used to mow lawns with a grass hopper, push the right stick forward you move left, left stick forward you move right. Makes more sense to me and it helped a ton!!.
Also I suggest going to the DA and having 1v1s for awhile, i feel flying at the edge helps to better your overall flying :salute
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It was suggested upthread, but bears repeating: don't forget to take your shoes off. I have a hard time "feeling" where the pedals are with just slippers, much less with shoes. I still wouldn't go back to the twisty. I have better fine control with them than with the twisty.
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Try inverting the z-axis, this made it easier for me because I used to mow lawns with a grass hopper, push the right stick forward you move left, left stick forward you move right. Makes more sense to me and it helped a ton!!.
I wouldn't do that unless, like Junky, there is a logical reason for YOU to set the pedals backwards.
Just imagine what would happen when you are on that 747 on an across the Atlantic trip and the entire flight crew has the fish for dinner and all are stricken with food poisoning. When the Flight Attendant comes back into the passenger cabin and asks if anyone has flight experience and you volunteer, it's going to be awfully embarrassing when you totally muff the landing because you are used to your rudder pedals being backwards! :bolt:
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I'm assuming these pedals slide instead of the old-style (they simply "depress").
A number of folks claim they get the best response putting their feet on the outsides of the pedals and resting the heels on the ground/base-of-pedals-unit, and using their toes to move the pedals. That way you aren't using the entire leg to move it, just the foot, and it might be a bit easier to learn.
EDIT: Goes without saying: no shoes!
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Ok time out....I have seen like 5 "no shoe" comments..I play fine with my combat boots on during my lunch break, do these people have CH pedals like I do?
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Ok time out....I have seen like 5 "no shoe" comments..I play fine with my combat boots on during my lunch break, do these people have CH pedals like I do?
I'm using Simped
(http://www.dhs-electronic.de/img/produkte/1_varioprousb_real_thmb.jpg)
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Ok time out....I have seen like 5 "no shoe" comments..I play fine with my combat boots on during my lunch break, do these people have CH pedals like I do?
I'd add another. I can't fly with shoes on, and I only hook my toes over the heel ridge on the pedals. I only put my whole foot on for landings (so I can brake). CH Pro Pedals.
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I use Saitek pedals and put my entire foot on the pedals as intended. I normally don't fly with shoes on, mostly because I don't wear shoes around the house. But I do have a pair of driving shoes that are very thin soled and allow for good feel.
(http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w220/Davis_Andrews/drivingshoes.jpg)
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Depends on if you have the muscle memory and fine motor control that goes with sliding pedals. Most players do not. Hence the "plant the heel, use the toes" advice, which most of us can do because we drive cars the same way. It's something we can relate to, and if that helps you get from your mind (thinking what you want to input) to the end result (plane flying with that input you wanted in the first place) that's all that matters.
Hell, you could put the pedals on your lap and use your hands, if it got the job done in a way you were comfortable with.
But most gamers here won't recommend that ;)
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I use some really old analog CH pedals through a USB adaptor and often have calibration issues. Sometimes part way through a flight too. Either the pedals will lock full over to one side, sometimes while taking off and sometimes part way through a flight, or they will only move one way, which I usually notice when I cannot recover from a spin.
My issues are a result of computer "issues", I've had to recalibrate in windows game controllers often recently, or, somehow, the "range" of inputs in game change for me. The calibration range of numbers switch from 0 - 31000 to 0 - 64000 for some reason and I need to recalibrate in game.
heya wrongway, if your cal range is shifting like you posted, have you took the bottom plate off your rudder pedals and checked the spade connectors to see if they were loose?
back when I had my old gameport/analog type CH stick/throttle/pedals I found that almost every connection to the potentiometers? were very loose....and was causing spiking and losing cal.
I took some wire crimpers and crimped down on each connection .making them very secure/snug...... it was a difference of night & day..was almost like new again by this simple fix........ what I thought was my controllers going bad was just loose connections from many years of use....
just saying....hope this might help..... goodluck :salute