Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Ripsnort on November 29, 2000, 10:12:00 AM
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Though many have thought of it, I threw him the idea of having ME163's as a perk plane, limiting them to the rear fields near HQ only...so when you see that HUGE red radar bar moving sector by sector toward your HQ, you could use your Perk points and take up a ME163 vertically to the bomber formation.
I bet with alittle community nudging, we could land this little bugger on the "Planes to perk in the future" list, HT was very receptive to the conversation.
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[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 11-29-2000).]
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Gets my vote.
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Back when the HTC crew still ran brand W, there actually WAS an ME163. It was never available in the arena for obvious reasons, but we were able to view it offline, although not fly it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Maybe with the perk system it now has a use. I like it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
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Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale,
Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you,
When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover,
You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!"
-- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"
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Me163 as a perk plane was discussed some time ago...
Would be just great to kill once at all >30K uberdween bombers, but as a perk plane wont be used all day long against decent 20K buffs.
BTW is been quite a long time since I heard the last stratobuff report...aren't they anymore?
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HT's concern when I brought up the ME163 (after the numerous threads of a perk plane) was that it would be used for "other than Intercept"...I mentioned basing it only at Large, rear fields, near HQ or better yet, a small airfield at the HQ itself. That's the thing that *may* have sold him on it? Dunno, but we need more support for the concept.
Originally posted by RAM:
BTW is been quite a long time since I heard the last stratobuff report...aren't they anymore?
You'll just have to open an account to see. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 11-29-2000).]
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I would definately vote for the limited distribution of this plane. Just as you described.
Bring the Komet to AH! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-Westy
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
HT's concern when I brought up the ME163 (after the numerous threads of a perk plane) was that it would be used for "other than Intercept"...
Well I cant see why...with the fuel multiplier the Me163 would have fuel for, what, 4 minutes?...at 12000feet/minute, enough to kill some annoying 35K dweeb, but for few things else...
With 2xMk108 cannons with 60 rounds each, Me163 will me a quite lousy antifighter weapon...
And when it loses power it is a very nice glider...but its dead meat (most 163s lost in combat were killed this way)
You'll just have to open an account to see. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) I can simply sit and look into the Gameplay forum,where most of the reports are done (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Well... you know I hate the whole perk plane idea. I think it is custom made to cause animosity but..... I would have no objections to a plane as bizzare as the 163 being the only perk plane in the game. Another perk could be to man the ack or drive the carriers. I just don't want some people being able to fly late model superplanes and some not. The 163 would be so strange and be so seldom seen and with such a short range that it would be kinda fun to see and not much of a real threat. More of a "fun" plane than anything else.
lazs
[This message has been edited by -lazs- (edited 11-29-2000).]
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agree on the fun factor laz, but if your the poor bomber pilot who flew 45 mins to get to target to see that grey streak in the sky, you won't be so very happy to see it now will ya? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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WarChild
VMF-323 ~Death Rattlers~
"Where's the Charmin!"
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Yeah, but if that grey streak cost somebody 100 kills in a zeke to get there, it wouldn't happen much. Plus, imagine the joy of whacking the fool when he tries a dead-6 approach.
The fuel multiplier might be waved for the komet.
I can see HTC's point about it being used for things other than interceptors. Can you see how much fun that would be to shoot up to 30k, glide to a deacked enemy field, and use the last minute of fuel to set up endless gliding vulchruns with the 30mm? muhahahahaha
THen again, for every 5 minutes of joy there are 10 of riding a zeke, trying to get that kill.
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War, one bullet and his perk plane points vanish, give and take IMO.
Ram, think outside the bubble. One could use 5 min of fuel, at 500 feet level flight and cover the distance of about 2 or 3 airfields hunting down goons, that's where the problem could potentially lie if not near a HQ field.
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Originally posted by Dinger:
Can you see how much fun that would be to shoot up to 30k, glide to a deacked enemy field, and use the last minute of fuel to set up endless gliding vulchruns with the 30mm? muhahahahaha
Not possible, once the C-Stoff and T-Stoff are cooked off, the compression of the engine sucks each one dry until the fuel is spent, another words, once you light that bird, you burn it all, no on or off, just ON. You had a valve (I believe) to stop the flow, but I've read diasterous reports of re-ingnition thereafter.(fuel seepage, combine chemical vapor detonation, etc)
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 11-29-2000).]
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Good idea Rip. Anyone that thinks the 163 would have any use other than bomber intercept is way out in left field.
Even though it' a fast bugger, I bet on that quick glide down along the bombers flight path to firing position, 90% would be lost to buff fire....just my guess (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I'm for it.
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Wingnut
GeschwaderKommadore
P.T.R. "Black 13"
The quality of the box matters little. Success depends upon the man who sits in it - Baron Manfred von Richthofen
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I would love to give it a go!, 163 me!
Brady
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Great idea! A way to kill uber alt buffs.
Is it possible to limit Me163's so that
they can only kill at alt ?
Sounds silly but it could possibly eliminate the low alt gooney kills, etc.
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Gimme gimme gimme!!!
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(http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/aces/germanjets.gif)
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Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Not possible, once the C-Stoff and T-Stoff are cooked off, the compression of the engine sucks each one dry until the fuel is spent, another words, once you light that bird, you burn it all, no on or off, just ON. You had a valve (I believe) to stop the flow, but I've read diasterous reports of re-ingnition thereafter.(fuel seepage, combine chemical vapor detonation, etc)
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 11-29-2000).]
Actually they could (and did, albeit with those noted problems) relight in flight. The 163 attack doctrine was to climb to 35,000, shut of fuel flow, make a slashing attack through the bomber formation, relight and repeat, being sure to burn off the entire fuel supply before landing.
If they did leave the rocket on, and continued to climb...well five minutes of fuel will get ya alot higher then 35,000 feet.
C-Stoff and T-Stoff were hydrogen peroxide and hydrazine/methanol, the T-Stoff being the dreaded melting stuff. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by Jigster (edited 11-29-2000).]
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I think it would be very cool to have one of those! I like the use of it as a point defense aircraft near HQ. Of course, if they want to really limits it use, along the lines of what you guys already mentioned, have them model the Me-163 exploding on landing for the pilot who isn't smooth enough and shakes up the remaining C-Stoff and T-Stoff on landing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) .
SD
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Me 163 was a very limited interceptor in real life, and if modelled correctly the same would apply in AH.
Hugely long takeoff run.
4 minutes rocket duration at full throttle.
Have to wait 2 minutes to relight rocket if turned off.
The slightest negative G will result in a flameout of the rocket.
Bleeds alot of speed in hard turns due to tailless design.
Lands on a skid, so no taxiing after landing. Have to wait for ground crew to come and tow it away.
Kind of hard to aim two low-velocity 30mm with a 350mph+ closing speed on tail attack.
The good part is that it climbs at what is most 1944 fighters top speed, and it reaches 40,000ft in about 3.5 minutes from a standing start. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Looks yummy...
(http://www.geocities.com/erler44/Photos/nsmp010.jpg)
(http://www.geocities.com/erler44/Photos/nsmp009.jpg)
(http://www.geocities.com/erler44/Photos/nsmp012.jpg)
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Hey, its fast and I like fast fighters!!!
I vote "yes" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Hey, dont shoot me! I'm on the light side!!
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[This message has been edited by Luke Skywalker (edited 11-30-2000).]
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Komet?
Must be mine!!
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[This message has been edited by Naso (edited 11-30-2000).]
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Am all for the little bastage being welcomed into the arena to perform it's historic role........and let's hope HTC has access to some of the data concerning the idiosyncrasies involved in just taking off in the little meanie....like separating the wheels (weren't they on a cart or gondola??) at just the right speed and alt, lest they bounce up and smack ya in the rump and down you before you get started good........lol. Saw a documentary on the 163 once that showed just such a thing happening......liftoff, 163 rotating up, there go the wheels.....bounce, SMACK! One fluttering 163 on the way back to terra firma, pilot seat left with a permanent pucker mark. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Originally posted by eddiek:
like separating the wheels (weren't they on a cart or gondola??) at just the right speed and alt, lest they bounce up and smack ya in the rump and down you before you get started good........lol. Saw a documentary on the 163 once that showed just such a thing happening......liftoff, 163 rotating up, there go the wheels.....bounce, SMACK! One fluttering 163 on the way back to terra firma, pilot seat left with a permanent pucker mark. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Yes, the wheels were in a trolley that was detached on takeoff. The intention was to go up to a couple hundred meters and then detach the trolley that should descend in a parachute to the ground. But after 2 parachute failures, the standard way to release was just after takeoff.
In AH it wont never be a problem. Its very simple: you dont want that f*!·!ing damned trolley for nothing else than to take off and there is no ground crew (nor Geschwader Kommodore (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)) to blame you and make you pay for it when (if) you land the bird. So you can release it at 700feet if you want it to, and let the little F***ing thing smash into the ground.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[edit] I remember reading an interview with one of the pilots of the Me163b, who was telling a very similar story, but with a quite more dramatic end.
On the take off the trolley was released as used ,but this time it bounced and hit the ME163. The engine cut at once,but the plane kept on flying quite well, and it ditched more or less intact. When they went to see if the Pilot was OK...
They found the T-stoff ducting had been cut off by the impact and the corrosive propellant had leaked into the cockpit, MELTING IN LIFE the poor pilot...
Noone will deny something to most LW pilots...they had some big BIG cojones to put themselfs into a bird that they knew could melt them alive.[/edit]
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 11-30-2000).]
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Well, like i said... This is the only plane I have seen so far that i wouldn't be pissed about as a "perk" plane. I am against the whole idiotic perk plane idea but this one seems like good clean fun and I have very little sympathy for the lone unescorted bomber who may run into one of these (hopefully) rare "perk" planes.
You want anything else to be "perked" then let it be manning the ack or driving the cv or getting to clean out HT's garage or mow pyros lawn..... You can even have my perk points.
lazs
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Originally posted by -lazs-:
Well, like i said... This is the only plane I have seen so far that i wouldn't be pissed about as a "perk" plane. I am against the whole idiotic perk plane idea but this one seems like good clean fun and I have very little sympathy for the lone unescorted bomber who may run into one of these (hopefully) rare "perk" planes.
Why do I think that its soooo normal that when I think that the perking system is a great idea, you think just the opposite?
For sure we aren't twin souls (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Actually the Me-163B had a limited throttle control. You could pill it back to 25% power, but no lower or the engine would cut. The fuels used were hypergolic, meaning they'd ignite when mixed. Take-off run wasn't too long, but it did require a substantial clear zone at the end of the runway. If the Komet crashed on take-off it was best to have a clear area, unless you WANT to piss the cook off.
C-Stoff is Hydrazine/Methanol
T-Stoff is Hydrogen Peroxide
Z-Stoff was tested and a few Komets supposedly used it as fuel. It is a water solution of Natrium and Potassium Permanganate. Highly explosive.
Rate of climb was between 12,000 and 14,500 ft/min depending on throttle settings. Full power would rocket your fuzzy butt to 45,000 ft within 3 minutes. Typically they used 80% power to hit 35,000 ft then throttled back to 25% to loiter. If bombers were spotted right off the bat they'd leave it at 80% until the fuel supply dried out. A typical Komet mission lasted all of 35 minutes.
Good Komet page (http://www.kolibri.lr.tudelft.nl/people/students/fun/rob/model163.htm)
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Punt!
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ram.... Why do we think things out so differently? it's because i have never believed that running my head into things was a good idea. Also.... when I was a child and threatened to hold my breath or kick my feet or run my head into the wall until I got my way.... My parents just said "go ahead" and then ignored me until I gave up the tactic. Other than that..... I don't know.
lazs
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This was in B-17 II ubb; Dunno if its manipulated (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
(http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/aces/p51jet.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Staga (edited 12-04-2000).]
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It was manipulated. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Those jet engines would be too weakly supported at the wingtips. True, some helicopters used ramjets on their rotor tips, but those were small engines.
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Rendar