Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Citabria on December 01, 2000, 02:16:00 PM
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turns almost as fast as a zeke and never needs to stop turning. ever.
dives as fast as p51
has 4 cannons and even more ammo in 1.05
has no torque and a 2000 hp engine
is as tough as a p47 and lighter than a 190
has in 1.04 improved altitude performance up to 20k.
gives me fits when i try to fight one co altitude with a p38 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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When in Rome.....
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It is that... one plane which didn't historically maneuver that well and was more likely classified as ground attack plane than air to air fighter...
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I just HAVE to agree on that one Cit.
Maik
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turns almost as fast as a zeke and never needs to stop turning. ever.
Yep...that's what it does.
dives as fast as p51
BS...if it did this, I'd be killing a lot more P51s, 190s, F4Us, etc.
has 4 cannons and even more ammo in 1.05
Yep (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Big Smiles! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
has no torque and a 2000 hp engine
Don't know about torque effects, except that he usually kills everything in sight, so it's best to find a target that's not within his guns range (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Aren't the rest of the planes in the planeset said to be lacking in torque? Never flown one, don't know the numbers, so I won't comment.
is as tough as a p47 and lighter than a 190
BS, and yes...that's why it turns so well.
has in 1.04 improved altitude performance up to 20k.
Performs like a turd high up...I usually cruise at 10k...much better to let the cons come down to you.
gives me fits when i try to fight one co altitude with a p38 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Yep (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I've only fought one P38 at around 20k that I can recall, and it wasn't easy. I did win, but with an HO, nosing up and ready to drop like a rock...I was almost outta fuel, and it was my last option since he controlled most of the fight.
SOB
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Hi
Niki outclimbs P51 at 28k. Just ask Mino and Animal what they saw from a niki last tour.
thanks GRUNHERZ
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And how much fuel did the N1K and the P51s have when they got into a climbing duel?
Hans
P.S. The P51 is noted as a poor climber. Its supposed to stink like that.
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Hans, I think the point of GRUNHERZ's post was this: Niki performance was supposed to drop off dramatically over 18K, which is one reason the Niki fared so poorly against the streams of B-29's it was sent up against.
P-51 did not see the same dropoff in performance.......so what was someone doing that high in a Niki? And why did a plane that had a known weakness at extreme alts outperform one that had no such weakness at the same alt?
According to HTC's own performance graphs, at that alt the Niki should have been climbing at right at 1200-1300 fpm, while the P51 whould have been climbing at 1400-1500 fpm.
Looking closer, I wonder why the Stang pilot didn't just extend? He had a 120 mph advantage in speed at that alt, about 440 vs 320 (approximates).
Even the Niki's acceleration advantage over the Stang would have been negated due to reduced engine output.
Another case of the Niki doing things it ought not be able to..........BAD NIKI! BAD BAD NIKI! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
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Well the truth hurts, It should have more ammo than it currently does I own about 4 books that say so,also it should carry 4 250kg bombs or 4 60kg bombs, I also have info and references to that effect. U should look on the bright side it's guns have a short range , I have found that to hit anything with any degree of certainty u need to be about 400 yards away from them, and SOB covered the rest so well I need not elaborate further.
Brady
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If the fuel loads are simulated in AH(And I think they are) , the niki was in fumes and the P51 had an apreciable ammount of fuel that advantage could be negated....
or maybe I'm wrong, I dont know.
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Hey, dont shoot me! I'm on the light side!!
(http://smilecwm.tripod.com/owen/luke3.gif)
(http://www.navegalia.com/hosting/000e0/illumm/straffing.gif)
[This message has been edited by Luke Skywalker (edited 12-01-2000).]
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Hi
I was flyin that niki at 28k and hunting for buffs and had a bunch of gas laft as I used DT for vast majority of the climb, the P51s did try to extend but in order to fight me they had to come back. When they did I had no trouble in easly keeping behind them in the climb and actually CLOSING the distance, this wasnt lag as we both noticed it on our range finders. Something is not right about that plane. The "official" performance figures on it might be accurate, but someting in the way its performance translates in AH FM is very innacurate when it comes to vertical ablity, E retention, and stalling out at steep climbs. If you think about it all thes anomilies everyone reports about the niki have roughly to do with the same element, something is messed up in niki ability to climb, not stall, go vertical, and loose no E. I dont know how the AH FM is programmed or how it works, but all those factors are clearly related to each other and HTC should look it over.
thanks GRUNHERZ
[This message has been edited by GRUNHERZ (edited 12-01-2000).]
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-No comment-
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Just so that I will know once and for all, what was HT's original ammo loadout for the Niki?
I flew the Niki exclusively when I started flying AH back in March......seems like it had "200" in both the primary and secondary weapon's ammo counter.
I was doing some furrballing one night, after we got the hot rearm points, and after I rearmed, I had "400" in one counter, and "200" in the other. Or maybe I just never noticed it before.
What is the normal ammo load now?
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What was the fuel state of the P-51's? What speed did they climb at? Were you climbing at the same angle, or actually climbing at a flatter angle, which would make you appear to gain, even though you are lower...
Because the N1K2-J doesn't climb at the same rate as a P-51D at 25,000ft when both have 100% fuel. The P-51D is about 300fpm faster when both climb at 155mph IAS.
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Hi
Their fuel was probably like mine or even better, the field was close to the front so neither of us went very far to the fight. My tanks were nearly full, so the P51s fuel state is almost irrelevant as it would at most roughly the same and probably somewhat better. Again I cant say that the niki climbs XXXX fpm faster than it could in RL, or that its performance figures are incorrect , however it is obvious to most people who take an unbiased view of the plane that something is off in its overall vertical flight profile. This isnt so unusual guys last time it was obvious that the 190A5 had FM issues, now its nikis. I flew it plenty in the last few tours, and they just dont feel the same as other aircraft in the vertical, I honestly cant say what it is but thats my gut feeling about the niki FM. Actually the niki FM reminds me most of the Spit IX FM from JanesWW2 Fighters, which if you dont know has a very arcadish FM. Janes FM was probably pretty accurate to the overall performance numbers ie speed, climb rate etc, but the planes could maintain verticals forever, then have a very gentle stall, followed by an almost immediate recovery and return to a steep vertical climb. Sound familliar? I flew WW2Fiters online almost daily for 1.5 years before coming here so plese belive me I know what im talking about when I compare the niki FM to the Janes spitIX. HTC please look into the vertical flight profile of niki, I dont pretend to be an aerodynamics expert, but something is wrong with the niki FM in this high-end High accuracy sim if it closely rsembles the arcadish FM of a less sophisticated game.
thanks GRUNHERZ
[This message has been edited by GRUNHERZ (edited 12-02-2000).]
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Grun, why don't you do some climb tests then?
You don't have to be an expert. Go offline with a watch and spend an hour and you'll have some numbers. If they are off, I'm sure Pyro will fix them.
Only DATA can get a change made.
BTW RAM, the best way to say "no comment" is just to not post. Please, take "no comment" literally.
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Lephturn - Chief Trainer
A member of The Flying Pigs http://www.flyingpigs.com (http://www.flyingpigs.com)
"A pig is a jolly companion, Boar, sow, barrow, or gilt --
A pig is a pal, who'll boost your morale, Though mountains may topple and tilt.
When they've blackballed, bamboozled, and burned you, When they've turned on you, Tory and Whig,
Though you may be thrown over by Tabby and Rover, You'll never go wrong with a pig, a pig,
You'll never go wrong with a pig!" -- Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"
[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 12-02-2000).]
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Originally posted by Lephturn:
BTW RAM, the best way to say "no comment" is just to not post. Please, take "no comment" literally.
Its my way to say that I **have** a lot of things to say, but that I'd rather not start another flamewar.
Another way to state my opinion. But in a non-flaming way (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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GRUNHERZ....quick question sir knight....in one of your posts you stated you "used your DT for most of the flight until...." Is my FE porked ???.....I don't have a DT selection option for the Niki. :-((
For eddiek.....they changed the ammo loadout for the Niki sometime after 1.03 (or there abouts??). It will read 400/200 until version 1.05 where they fix the loadout.
RAS
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RAS...the drop tank is behind the clipboard in the hangar...close the clipboard and you should see it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
SOB
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I think there's still some bugs with the N1K2's FM...namely the turning ability of the combat flaps but without much of a drag penalty. (and apparently the lack of split flaps in landing configuration)
And it's dive acceleration is uber. But that's just personal opinion (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
- Jig
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What is a Niki? Oh, I see, the cannon armed cucumber.
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RAM why do you post if you are not playing?
it seems a waste of time unless you are on another account? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) .
We all have our veiws on NIKI's performance but things like <no comment> is just bad for the mood of BB.Every time i see a post on Niki quirks i see RAM'i told you so' stuff,sort of funny at first but now a little annoying.
No hard feelings but just discuss things dont imply you know for certain whats right/wrong with NIKI as im sure you like me have never flown one or even seen one in RL.
Just a bunch of figures in a book.
hazed
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Originally posted by hazed-:
RAM why do you post if you are not playing?
'cause I play on H2H lately.
NewXXX different each time <G>
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Its not really a good idea to be critical of ANYTHING that may be remotely identifiable as a whine about gameplay or FMs.
Everyone KNOWS everything is PERFECT so SHUTUP already.
Yeager
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"This isnt so unusual guys last time it was obvious that the 190A5 had FM issues"
BUT the Fw 190A-5 was fixed because several ppl pointed out an error in it's loaded weight/climbrate and backed it up with DATA. Add in the general changes in the 1.04 FM, and the Fw 190A-5 suddenly wasn't "flavour of the month" anymore.
If you think something is wrong with the N1K2-J and it needs to be fixed, you're going to have to provide more than a "gut feeling" about it to get a response from HTC.
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Juzz, instead of data, I was thinking about a "Florida Vote" system.
We'll place FM model changes on a ballot and then argue over them for a six months. In the end, lawyers will take over and select the FM.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I just don't understand this fixation with actual aircraft performance data.
Maybe each plane could have sliders in the hangar. Each pilot just goes out to the hangar and arrange the sliders the way he thinks they ought to be.
Like you can push the "Max Airspeed" slider up to 700kts at 10K because you have an Air Classics that says the SuperShooter 300A could do 700kts. Should be all the proof you need, right?
Just a thought. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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im with yeager
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loop.ahf (http://www.engr.orst.edu/~bloom/loop.ahf)
Check this film out. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
(Note: I could have continued if I wanted to.)
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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What I find annoying about the N1K2 is that in the MA are a lot of them ,and in any H2H I find there are always at least a couple of nikis, unless they are forbidden by the host.
I just got out from a Stalingrad map (wonderful ,BTW,all snowy) H2H, and most people were in german planes...
except the classic N1K2s... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) they are everywhere (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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Originally posted by -towd_:
im with yeager
Looks like it backfired Yeager. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Originally posted by Citabria:
turns almost as fast as a zeke and never needs to stop turning. ever.
For sure, historically its a good turner, not as good as a zeke tho.
dives as fast as p51
Nup, P51 leaves em for dead (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif). The niki doesnt seem to suffer compression at all just stiffening controls.
has 4 cannons and even more ammo in 1.05
Historically correct.
has no torque and a 2000 hp engine
No planes seem to have much in the way of torque effects - this is bad! for F*** sake 2000 HP should produce one hell of an "...opposite reaction"
is as tough as a p47 and lighter than a 190
Dont know about tuffness, but should be lighter than 190.
has in 1.04 improved altitude performance up to 20k.
It outperforms the P51 at high alt. Accels better, climbs better, turns way better (vert and horiz), seems to be damned fast up there. And it sure as hell should be easy pickings for the P38 (which is historically reknowned for excellent hi-alt performance.
gives me fits when i try to fight one co altitude with a p38 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Above 20K they should be easy meat in the P38 and in a P51, but they aint, they are very dangerous.
I may do some climb tests tonight.
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Hey guys 27loops.ahf (http://www.engr.orst.edu/~bloom/27loops.ahf), did you know a n1k can loop 27 times immediately after takeoff before the pilot goes insane. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) What's even better is that it can actually climb (while wep is remaining) solely by pulling 4g loops.
Put the film on fast forward with trails on, pretty funny. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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Originally posted by bloom25:
Hey guys 27loops.ahf (http://www.engr.orst.edu/~bloom/27loops.ahf), did you know a n1k can loop 27 times immediately after takeoff before the pilot goes insane. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) What's even better is that it can actually climb (while wep is remaining) solely by pulling 4g loops.
Put the film on fast forward with trails on, pretty funny. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Holly sh*t, it climbs while looping????? THAT IS P-O-R-K-E-D!!!!!
Give me a P,
Give me a O,
Give me a R,
Give me a K,
Give me a E,
Give me a D,
What have you got...?
... a George!!!!
YAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!!
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Give me a B,
Give me a U,
Give me a L,
Give me a L,
Give me a S,
Give me a H,
Give me a I,
Give me a T
Thanks god that the N1k2 is so easy to demonstrate its porked.
now lets try to figure how do we demonstrate the F4U problem...because that thing doesnt climb while looping (for now... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
and PLEASE, bring back the torque effect. Some of the most full-of-BS moves the niki does are done exactly because that, the lack of a proper torque effect. (not to talk about tiffies)
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Heh, this is good.
NOW is the "n1k is a dweeb plane" statement no longer a whine?
Remember that I also whined about the A5, so don't gimme the LW whiner crap. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
while(!bishRookQueue.isEmpty() && loggedOn()){
30mmDeathDIEDIEDIE(bishRookQueue.removeFront());
System.out.println("LW pilots are superior");
myPlane.performVictoryRoll();
}
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LuftWaffle Whiner! Ah, that feels better (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
<S!> Bloom...you're thread is about the only productive thread on why the Niki is or isn't messed up I've seen since the whines (yes, whines) started.
SOB
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Stall/Deep Stall Recovery is very fast than other planes...but I don't know it's correct or not.
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I flew the N1K almost exclusively for the first several tours.
I stopped flying the N1K because I kept rippen my own wings off at high speed way too often.
When I switched to the Spit IX, I thought it's performance helped me out.
eskimo