Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: jolly22 on December 29, 2009, 01:14:53 PM
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We NEED a new bomber, I was looking through my book and found the Heinkel HE 177A-5 Greif. Not only is it another heavy bombers, its an axis bomber. Off the top of my head we have NO AXIS HEAVY bomber.
The HE 177A-5 Was first used in action in 1942. This plane was the ONLY heavy bomber that the Germans built in large numbers (1,169 to be exact). The plane can carry up to 6000kg (13,228ib) of bombs. This bomber is more protected than the Lancaster.
1 7.92mm machine gun in nose
1 20mm and 2 7.92 machine guns in the ventral gondolas
2 13mm machine gun in remotely controlled dorsal Barbette's
1 20mm cannon in tail.
Now, the guns maybe be difficult to shoot and aim correctly, the He 177 is still more heavily protected than the Lancaster.
The He 177 has 2 3100hp daimler-Benz DB 610A/1/B-1 24- cylinder engines........with a top speed of 303mph and a climb rate of about 623 feet per minute. About the same climb rate as the Lancaster, but is a lot faster. I'm guessing that this plane is a very good CV killer. The Germans used this plane in anti-shipping missions in the Baltic Sea. Just because the Germans used this plane in the Baltic seas doesn't mean we can't use it wherever we want.
The HE 177 was said to have dive bombing capabilities. At least in a shallow dive.
General characteristics:
Wingspan:103ft
Length:72ft
service ceiling:30,000ft
Here's a list of all the bomb possibilities:
48 × 50 kg (110 lb) bombs (2,400 kg/5,291 lb total)
1 × 2,500 kg (5,511 lb) bomb (2,500 kg/5,511 lb total)
12 × 250 kg (551 lb) bombs (3,000 kg/6,613 lb total)
6 × 500 kg (1,102 lb) bombs (3,000 kg/6,613 lb total)
2 × 1,800 kg (3,968 lb) bombs (3,600 kg/7,936 lb total)
2 × 1,800 kg (3,968 lb) bombs + 2 × LMA III mines (4,600 kg/10,141 lb total)
10 × 500 kg (1,102 lb) bombs (5,000 kg/11,023 lb total)
2 × 1,000 kg (2,204 lb) bombs + 2 × 1,800 kg (3,968 lb) bombs (5,600 kg/12,345 lb total)
6 × 1,000 kg (2,204 lb) bombs (6,000 kg/13,227 lb total)
2 × FX 1400 Fritz X + 1 × FX 1400 Fritz X under the wings and fuselage
2 × Hs 293 or 294 + 1 × Hs 293 or 294 under the wings and fuselage
2 × 500 kg (1,102 lb) bombs internally + 2 × Hs 293 under the wings
2 × LT 50 torpedoes under the wing
(http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab206/JRjolly/HE177.jpg)
(http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab206/JRjolly/He-1772.jpg)
- JRjolly <<S>>
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Japanese? :huh
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The Japs used this plane in anti-shipping missions over the Baltic sea. Just because the japs used this plane in the Baltic seas doesn't mean we can't use it wherever we want.
...
- JRjolly <<S>>
Anybody else find this somewhat disturbing?
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Its like a whole new way of thinking about history? :D
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My brain, it hurts.
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Duh because the Germans were the ones that bombed Pearl Harbor, geeze guys get a edumacation.
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Anybody else find this somewhat disturbing?
(http://www.trekp.com/posters/gw932-alternate_realities.jpg)
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Oh my god.
It burns! It burns! IT HURTS MY HEAD!
I'd fly the plane.
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So about the plane.............Yes or no
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Yeah guys, forget about the Japanese part and just concentrate on the plane! Jeez.. :rolleyes:
:lol
... fail.
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Didn't realize the Japanese were European.
Wait, what planet is this?
(http://www.lgblog.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/kirk.jpg)
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:) ...
Roundel of the Luftwaffe
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Balkenkreuz.svg/80px-Balkenkreuz.svg.png)
Roundel of the IJNAS
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Merchant_flag_of_Japan_%281870%29.svg/125px-Merchant_flag_of_Japan_%281870%29.svg.png)
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/AK_Comrade/WORLDBJG.jpg)
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Come on Motherland, I am not very good with geometry! :rofl
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The plane: :aok
The rest: :huh :rolleyes:
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OMG!!! sorry i was reading something else and put japanease.....it got stuck in my head........sorry
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Well according to wikipedia none were used by the Japs but the French Air Force is said to have rebuilt at least two left behind by the Germans after the war
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OK All fixed! <S> sorry bout that
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Good catch. :rofl
I want the plane.
I want it with the 111 in a pack.
Both at the same time.
I also want the A-26 and the unperking of the Spit XIV in this pack.
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OMG!!! sorry i was reading something else and put japanease.....it got stuck in my head........sorry
Thats ok jolly22. you are human and will make mistake.
Yea, that German bomber would be nice to have.
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I'd fly it as long as HT don't model all the engine fires the thing had in real life... That would suck, take off, get a few 1000 off the ground, look out the window to see your #2 engine burst into flames and try turn around and land or in the world of AH your wing just falls off. :)
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AFAIK HTC is never going to model any type of random mechanical failures so don't worry about that.
And yes, this bomber would be a great addition to the game! :aok
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He 111, Do 17Z, Do 217, Ju 188... all higher priority IMO
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We need giant heavy bombers with protection IMO
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We have them... The B24 and B17 would still be just as/more effective than the Grief.
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not as heavy as i meant, a bomber relatively close to the lanc.
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Ehhh nvm
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my book says, bomb load of 13,228ib (6000kg)
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http://simviation.com/fsdcbainhe177.htm
Go near the bottom under technical data: Then it's right near the end of Armament :aok
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We need giant heavy bombers with protection IMO
Or maybe bombers that fill gaps in the planeset.
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Not sure where I got 8,000 lbs from. Could be that that was the actual max used, and that 6,000 KG is just a meaningless (for practical purposes) technical number; like how max bombload for the B17 is often listed at 17,600 lbs although that was very rarely (never?) used in combat.
Or I could have just 'made it up'. Who knows :lol
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That too Larry :P
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Considering the other German bombers that were much more historically significant, I'd put the fire prone He-177 down the list, unless it's used as a ground target since they seem to show up in Allied strafing film fairly often.
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Considering the other German bombers that were much more historically significant, I'd put the fire prone He-177 down the list, unless it's used as a ground target since they seem to show up in Allied strafing film fairly often.
Yeah, I think they used them as decoys to keep the strafers away from the operational planes... :P
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I sure wouldn't mind receiving this one and the HE-111. :D
*This message was approved by the committee for enhanced German arsenals*
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+1
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We have them... The B24 and B17 would still be just as/more effective than the Grief.
Yea, but a B-29 is far better.
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Yea, but a B-29 is far better.
And the B-52 is farer betterer. :banana:
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B-36
I'll go a little less crazy than you young people and your B-52's.
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B-47
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B-47
because we need a bomber that can deploy it's own escorts?
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The B-36 because 999000 needs a deathstar to play around with.
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How bout german bomber?
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No.
He. 111
But then I want my B-36.
That's final.
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I would love a B36 too, Bu we need more variety in this game, We have plently of allied bombers in this game.. I kinda want something NEW.
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Yeah, I think they used them as decoys to keep the strafers away from the operational planes... :P
:rofl
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The 111 would be a nice addition.
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Heinkel 111H in AH is long overdue.
<licks chops>
:cool:
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ok the axis don't have any heavy bombers exept the jap heavy bomber and there giant targets you might aswell put a bullseye on them and tell the allies to shoot them................. +1 for the idea
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ok the axis don't have any heavy bombers exept the jap heavy bomber and there giant targets you might aswell put a bullseye on them and tell the allies to shoot them................. +1 for the idea
I thought that the Ju-88 was considered a heavy bomber in German eyes. You see, different countries have different definitions of "Heavy Bomber."
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I thought that the Ju-88 was considered a heavy bomber in German eyes. You see, different countries have different definitions of "Heavy Bomber."
oh ok
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ok the axis don't have any heavy bombers exept the jap heavy bomber and there giant targets you might aswell put a bullseye on them and tell the allies to shoot them................. +1 for the idea
:huh
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I thought that the Ju-88 was considered a heavy bomber in German eyes. You see, different countries have different definitions of "Heavy Bomber."
THe HE177 can carry up to 13000 pounds. The ju88 isnt close to that!
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because we need a bomber that can deploy it's own escorts?
I thought the B36 did that...
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First off noob the plane sucked. It's Engines failed and most crashed becuz of engine fails. The plane wasnt "Mass used". Only about 300 saw service and half didnt even fly a whole sortie before the engines gave.
Major waste of time jolly.
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(cough) Late war it was a very very succesful bomber once they worked out the kinks, mostly on the Soviet front lines.
Type Production #'s Dates
He 177 A-0 35
He 177 A-1 130 January 1942 - January 1943
He 177 A-3 615 November 1942 - June 1944
He 177 A-5 349 December 1943 - August 1944
Total #'s 1,129
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Thank you for the #'s Mister Fork, i couldn't find them.
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Great bomber for this game.
Bring it on.
Give it its guided glide bombs.
Perk it.
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THe HE177 can carry up to 13000 pounds. The ju88 isnt close to that!
So? I wasn't making a point about how much ordnance the Ju-88 or the He-177. I was correcting the incorrect statement of warphoenix, which was, "ok the axis don't have any heavy bombers exept the jap heavy bomber and there giant targets you might aswell put a bullseye on them and tell the allies to shoot them................. +1 for the idea." Your point is entirely unrelated to my post.
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Bring On the Luftwaffe Bombers. +
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(cough) Late war it was a very very succesful bomber once they worked out the kinks, mostly on the Soviet front lines.
Type Production #'s Dates
He 177 A-0 35
He 177 A-1 130 January 1942 - January 1943
He 177 A-3 615 November 1942 - June 1944
He 177 A-5 349 December 1943 - August 1944
Total #'s 1,129
Just for comparison... :)
He 111 (minus civilian airline versions)- 6,496
Do 17- 2,139
Ju 88- 15,000
Ju 188- 1,234
Do 217- 1,730
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HE111--light bomber--only 2,205 ibs
DO17-- light bomber--only 2,200 ibs
JU88--VERY SURPRISED!!! -- Heavy bomber--6,614
JU188--Heavy bomber-- 6,612
DO217--medium/heavy bomber--8,800
HE117--HEAVY BOMBER--13,227
I want a new HEAVY axis bomber, What looks best to you? Bomb load wise??
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Ju88 was a medium bomber.
I still want the He111 seeing that it will fill a huge gap in the plane set. Next would be the Do17z or Do217.
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yes i thought it was a medium bomber but a few sources say heavy
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Japanese? :huh
Where do you see Japanese? :headscratch:
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Carries the same ord as a B17. Just saying.
Ju88 was a medium bomber.
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Where do you see Japanese? :headscratch:
When i first posted this i accidentally posted this as a jap. bomber.
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Carries the same ord as a B17. Just saying.
It doesn't carry the same load from England to Berlin and back though. There's a difference in what the bomb bay is capable of versus range. 6,000 lbs of bombs wasn't the B-17s maximum bomb load, unless it needed the extra weight for fuel to get there and back.
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Interesting, i did not know that.......oh i love th boards thanks! <<S>>
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:salute From a purely in game perspective Stoney. :salute
It doesn't carry the same load from England to Berlin and back though. There's a difference in what the bomb bay is capable of versus range. 6,000 lbs of bombs wasn't the B-17s maximum bomb load, unless it needed the extra weight for fuel to get there and back.
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Good catch. :rofl
I want the plane.
I want it with the 111 in a pack.
Both at the same time.
I also want the A-26 and the unperking of the Spit XIV in this pack.
Have to agree with Sandwich on this one, perk the XVI not the XIV, IMO.
Would definitely like some new planes, I know HTC is busy with the WWI arena, but would be nice to have some new planes for the WWII arenas.
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:salute From a purely in game perspective Stoney. :salute
Fair enough... :aok
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I still want the He111 seeing that it will fill a huge gap in the plane set. Next would be the Do17z or Do217.
Dornier Do.217 please. :D
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So about the plane.............Yes or no
Surre
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I'm going with my opinion. I wnat a NEW HEAVY AXIS bomber!!!
-JRjolly
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Just for comparison... :)
He 111 (minus civilian airline versions)- 6,496
Do 17- 2,139
Ju 88- 15,000
Ju 188- 1,234
Do 217- 1,730
Wouldn't it be nice if we had ALL four of these variants?
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Wouldn't it be nice if we had ALL four of these variants?
cc
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It doesn't carry the same load from England to Berlin and back though. There's a difference in what the bomb bay is capable of versus range. 6,000 lbs of bombs wasn't the B-17s maximum bomb load, unless it needed the extra weight for fuel to get there and back.
a bomber is classed by its bomb load
light bomber-2,000
medium bomber-4,000
heavy bmber-6,000
so there you have it
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a bomber is classed by its bomb load
light bomber-2,000
medium bomber-4,000
heavy bmber-6,000
so there you have it
Seeing that the Ju-88 is a medium bomber you are wrong.
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A bomber is classified by its bomb load. The list being:
Light Bomber - 2,000 lbs
Medium Bomber - 4,000 lbs
Heavy Bomber - 6,000 lbs
So there you have it. Is that what you were trying to say? I could barely understand it.
As larry said,Seeing that the Ju-88 is a medium bomber you are wrong.
You ARE wrong, as another example is the A-20 or the G4M1. The A-20 is classified as a light bomber, and it could, and does in game, carry 4,000lbs of ordnance. The G4M1 carried 1000 kilograms, or slightly under 2,205 lbs, yet it is classified as a medium bomber.
AFAIK a bomber is classified by its weight, not by how much it carries. Its classification is also determined by the country that operates/operated the craft. An example would be the Ar 234, which was classified as a "Fast Bomber" by its country of operation, Germany, not a "Heavy Bomber" like your list would suggest.
Little tip: Before you make blanket statements, spend time researching for an exception, as there always is one.
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I can't wait to see He-177s subbing in the next BoB scenario.
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He111 was the Heinkel bomber type employed by the Luftwaffe during the BoB; the He177 didn't rear its ugly head over Britain until the 'Baedecker Blitz'.
:cool:
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HE 177 :noid
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HE 177 :noid
is it a necrobump if it's the OP's thread?
also, I counter your He-177 with my Short Stirling :noid
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People moan about the lack of German heavy bombers in this game. I don't feel as though it's because HTC doesn't want to model one, but due in fact that there isn't a lot of worthy air frames to put in game. As you all know, it was the German policy to deploy smaller bombers.
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:aok
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I WANT IT!!!!!
fixed
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So instead of focusing an a great plane, we focus on a typo? Plantee of typn errers ta werk wit.
I give the idea of the 177 being developed a thumbs up. :aok New challenge, right after we mastering shooting down the B-29 and He-111.
Boo
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Not sure where any place in my post that it says I want it.
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Not sure where any place in my post that it says I want it.
People moan about the lack of German heavy bombers in this game. I don't feel as though it's because HTC doesn't want to model one, but due in fact that there isn't a lot of worthy air frames to put in game. As you all know, it was the German policy to deploy smaller bombers.
:D
Would love to have, but...
He 111, Do 17Z, Do 217, Ju 188... all higher priority IMO
This...
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Not sure where any place in my post that it says I want it.
People moan about the lack of German heavy bombers in this game. I don't feel as though it's because HTC doesn't want to model one, but due in fact that there isn't a lot of worthy air frames to put in game. As you all know, it was the German policy to deploy smaller bombers.
:D
Would love to have, but...
He 111, Do 17Z, Do 217, Ju 188... all higher priority IMO
This...
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Not sure where any place in my post that it says I want it.
People moan about the lack of German heavy bombers in this game. I don't feel as though it's because HTC doesn't want to model one, but due in fact that there isn't a lot of worthy air frames to put in game. As you all know, it was the German policy to deploy smaller bombers.
:D
Would love to have, but...
He 111, Do 17Z, Do 217, Ju 188... all higher priority IMO
This...
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Not sure where any place in my post that it says I want it.
People moan about the lack of German heavy bombers in this game. I don't feel as though it's because HTC doesn't want to model one, but due in fact that there isn't a lot of worthy air frames to put in game. As you all know, it was the German policy to deploy smaller bombers.
:D
Would love to have, but...
He 111, Do 17Z, Do 217, Ju 188... all higher priority IMO
This...
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Calm down volron.....
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:aok
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:D
Would love to have, but...
This...
:D
Would love to have, but...
This...
:D
Would love to have, but...
This...
:D
Would love to have, but...
This...
if this was a quadruple post accidentally then why such long wait times between posts? :t
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yes yes yes :banana: :rock :salute
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What the heck; I'd fly the sob.
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We NEED a new bomber, I was looking through my book and found the Heinkel HE 177A-5 Greif. Not only is it another heavy bombers, its an axis bomber. Off the top of my head we have NO AXIS HEAVY bomber.
The HE 177A-5 Was first used in action in 1942. This plane was the ONLY heavy bomber that the Germans built in large numbers (1,169 to be exact). The plane can carry up to 6000kg (13,228ib) of bombs. This bomber is more protected than the Lancaster.
1 7.92mm machine gun in nose
1 20mm and 2 7.92 machine guns in the ventral gondolas
2 13mm machine gun in remotely controlled dorsal Barbette's
1 20mm cannon in tail.
Now, the guns maybe be difficult to shoot and aim correctly, the He 177 is still more heavily protected than the Lancaster.
The He 177 has 2 3100hp daimler-Benz DB 610A/1/B-1 24- cylinder engines........with a top speed of 303mph and a climb rate of about 623 feet per minute. About the same climb rate as the Lancaster, but is a lot faster. I'm guessing that this plane is a very good CV killer. The Germans used this plane in anti-shipping missions in the Baltic Sea. Just because the Germans used this plane in the Baltic seas doesn't mean we can't use it wherever we want.
The HE 177 was said to have dive bombing capabilities. At least in a shallow dive.
General characteristics:
Wingspan:103ft
Length:72ft
service ceiling:30,000ft
Here's a list of all the bomb possibilities:
48 × 50 kg (110 lb) bombs (2,400 kg/5,291 lb total)
1 × 2,500 kg (5,511 lb) bomb (2,500 kg/5,511 lb total)
12 × 250 kg (551 lb) bombs (3,000 kg/6,613 lb total)
6 × 500 kg (1,102 lb) bombs (3,000 kg/6,613 lb total)
2 × 1,800 kg (3,968 lb) bombs (3,600 kg/7,936 lb total)
2 × 1,800 kg (3,968 lb) bombs + 2 × LMA III mines (4,600 kg/10,141 lb total)
10 × 500 kg (1,102 lb) bombs (5,000 kg/11,023 lb total)
2 × 1,000 kg (2,204 lb) bombs + 2 × 1,800 kg (3,968 lb) bombs (5,600 kg/12,345 lb total)
6 × 1,000 kg (2,204 lb) bombs (6,000 kg/13,227 lb total)
2 × FX 1400 Fritz X + 1 × FX 1400 Fritz X under the wings and fuselage
2 × Hs 293 or 294 + 1 × Hs 293 or 294 under the wings and fuselage
2 × 500 kg (1,102 lb) bombs internally + 2 × Hs 293 under the wings
2 × LT 50 torpedoes under the wing
(http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab206/JRjolly/HE177.jpg)
(http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab206/JRjolly/He-1772.jpg)
- JRjolly <<S>>
it looks like what the ar234 would be if it had its wings extended, and prop engines.
i like it, but would rather have the fw200 condor first tho.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/xxREXxx_01/FW200C1.jpg)
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/xxREXxx_01/fw200.jpg)
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/xxREXxx_01/ETHBIBBildarchiv_Ans_05035-495_20360.jpg)
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speaking of the he177...did the allies ever use any of them? because i found this photo.... :headscratch:
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/xxREXxx_01/He_177_A-5.jpg)
also, what type of gun is that on the first model on this chart? was it like an attack version of the aircraft?
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/xxREXxx_01/He__177__1.jpg)
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The Condor could carry only 2000kg bombs, had almost no defensive arnament, had a very weak structure and had a top speed of 225mph. In the other hand, it had the range of 4400 km. It was used over the atlantic ocean in anti-shipping missions because in the early war the allies couldnt send escorting carriers to protect the convoys. Would be a nice addition to the early war planeset.
The 177 could be a lightly perked bomber. It was fast, had good arnament, could carry a big bombload, was produced in big numbers. Only the early models had that engine flaming habit, the improved version was in front service in '42.
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speaking of the he177...did the allies ever use any of them? because i found this photo.... :headscratch:
also, what type of gun is that on the first model on this chart? was it like an attack version of the aircraft?
The British test flew one in autumn of 1944 into 1945. They found it to be an inferior plane and found it almost as dangerous to its crews as it did to the enemy.
That would be the MK 101 30mm auto cannon
The plane apparently was plagued with engine overheating and fires.
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if this was a quadruple post accidentally then why such long wait times between posts? :t
around 5:00 last night it got WAY slow. Slowest I've ever seen it. Locked on one of my posts for over 5 minutes so I finally closed out
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FW200. :lol
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The plane apparently was plagued with engine overheating and fires.
That must had be an early model what was tested by the british. The germans solved the engine overheating problems til '42, and after that, the crew liked this aircraft.
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Calm down volron.....
hahaha That was the forum spazzing out on me. Sorry about that guys. Got pissed at it yesterday and closed it out. I just now check it and I see this.... Oh boy. :bhead
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if this was a quadruple post accidentally then why such long wait times between posts? :t
I would switch to a different thread right quick, read it then came back to this one and try to re-post. As you saw, didn't go well. bah :bhead As I said in my previous post, I got pissed and left the forum alone for the night. So it's too late for me to edit them out.
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That must had be an early model what was tested by the british. The germans solved the engine overheating problems til '42, and after that, the crew liked this aircraft.
That may well be true in the same book it states that one mission to bomb London 14 taxied out 13 took off 8 returned shortly thereafter with either engine fires or overheating. 3 made it to target and 1 returned. That's one epic mission fail!
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Gentlemen-Enjoyed the T/A slide show in this thread :devil,
but the fact remains that Ger never produced a quality
heavy bomber. (what the heck were these people thinking about?)
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it looks like what the ar234 would be if it had its wings extended, and prop engines.
i like it, but would rather have the fw200 condor first tho.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/xxREXxx_01/FW200C1.jpg)
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/xxREXxx_01/fw200.jpg)
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/xxREXxx_01/ETHBIBBildarchiv_Ans_05035-495_20360.jpg)
The Fw 200 wasn't a bomber, it was a heavy transport and maritime patrol aircraft.
It was also slow and had structural problems as previously stated.
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The Fw 200 wasn't a bomber, it was a heavy transport and maritime patrol aircraft.
It was also slow and had structural problems as previously stated.
transport as in troops?..
if so then screew the condor being added as a bomber, i want it as the next goon plane! :D
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transport as in troops?..
if so then screew the condor being added as a bomber, i want it as the next goon plane! :D
As in equipment. I'm pretty sure it was never equipped to drop paratroops.
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As in equipment. I'm pretty sure it was never equipped to drop paratroops.
hm, carried bombs. could be good for air-dropping gv supplies and still being able to stick around to provide little support.
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I am not aware that any Fw 200's air dropped, just because it is a transport doesnt mean it can drop supps or troops
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Fw200 was so weak structurally at least some were lost due to breaking their back on landing. I laugh every time I see somebody ask for it as a German heavy bomber.
In fairness to the Fw200, it was designed as an passenger aircraft, a real passenger aircraft, not a bomber in disguise like the He111.
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Fw200 was so weak structurally at least some were lost due to breaking their back on landing. I laugh every time I see somebody ask for it as a German heavy bomber.
In fairness to the Fw200, it was designed as an passenger aircraft, a real passenger aircraft, not a bomber in disguise like the He111.
but AH wouldnt model those types of problems, would it?
and it does have recorded war history.
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It's been custom for HTC not to include mechanical shortcomings, like engine problems or gun jams. Structual weakness like wing failure under G's or fuselage problems as in the Fw200 case don't have that warranty.
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HE 177?
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Hey Coola4me can you please increase the size of your avatar, its hard to read.
This is one of the funniest posts I've seen in a long time. It started out with so much potential and then went into a Stuka dive with the Japs bombing shipping in the Baltic Sea. I am confused though, was that english shipping or Chinese junks?
LTARogue
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but AH wouldnt model those types of problems, would it?
and it does have recorded war history.
yes AH would model known structural weaknesses ie 109's landing difficulty or the N1K2's weak langing gear, B24's flamability, all in game
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but AH wouldnt model those types of problems, would it?
and it does have recorded war history.
In AH the structural weakness would likely me seen mostly when it got shot, i.e. it would be a very fragile aircraft and come apart rapidly and without being hit very hard. The Ju88 is much more survivable than the Fw200 would be, and it carries a heavier bomb load to boot.
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So instead of focusing an a great plane, we focus on a typo? Plantee of typn errers ta werk wit.
I give the idea of the 177 being developed a thumbs up. :aok New challenge, right after we mastering shooting down the B-29 and He-111.
Boo
What great plane? They were asking for the He-177 which was a piece of crap. Last thread on this plane it is possible someone identified a single mission the plane flew in WWII that was actually something like a bomber mission. Most all others were the plane being used as a transport, a missile dropping AC in anti-shipping roles, etc. It's most famous raid as I recall was against England where several burst into flames on the runway or turned back and so few made it they bailed on the mission, dropped on a field and went back. It is most well known for bursting into flames, a design issue they never overcame. While all aircraft have teething problems, this plane never, that would be never, overcame its problems and was considered an utter failure by everyone except Aces High folks wanting a German heavy and a few guys trying to rewrite history and sell books to Germanophile geeks. The plane looks good on paper, that's it--the plane was not a combat success. The Me-163 was a more successful model, wrap your head around that.
Piece of crap is too kind for this plane. I know, people will say "but it flew and it was German . . ." lots of planes flew in the war, so what? It had no meaningful combat record. The Do-217, on the other hand, was an excellent plane that was built in greater numbers, served the Italians as well as the Germans, flew the same mission types as the 177, and actually saw use as a level bomber--ostensibly the reason the 177 is being requested? The Do-217 was a great bomber that would easily fill the heavy role and, unlike all the 4-engine buffs now in the game, the 217 was capable of dive bombing.
About every few months, some kid "discovers" that the Germans built this plane. The next "Discovery" will be about the Fw-200, Condor as "a 4-engined German heavy . . .wow we need that plane . . ."
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What great plane? They were asking for the He-177 which was a piece of crap. Last thread on this plane it is possible someone identified a single mission the plane flew in WWII that was actually something like a bomber mission. Most all others were the plane being used as a transport, a missile dropping AC in anti-shipping roles, etc. It's most famous raid as I recall was against England where several burst into flames on the runway or turned back and so few made it they bailed on the mission, dropped on a field and went back. It is most well known for bursting into flames, a design issue they never overcame. While all aircraft have teething problems, this plane never, that would be never, overcame its problems and was considered an utter failure by everyone except Aces High folks wanting a German heavy and a few guys trying to rewrite history and sell books to Germanophile geeks. The plane looks good on paper, that's it--the plane was not a combat success. The Me-163 was a more successful model, wrap your head around that.
Piece of crap is too kind for this plane. I know, people will say "but it flew and it was German . . ." lots of planes flew in the war, so what? It had no meaningful combat record. The Do-217, on the other hand, was an excellent plane that was built in greater numbers, served the Italians as well as the Germans, flew the same mission types as the 177, and actually saw use as a level bomber--ostensibly the reason the 177 is being requested? The Do-217 was a great bomber that would easily fill the heavy role and, unlike all the 4-engine buffs now in the game, the 217 was capable of dive bombing.
About every few months, some kid "discovers" that the Germans built this plane. The next "Discovery" will be about the Fw-200, Condor as "a 4-engined German heavy . . .wow we need that plane . . ."
the lancstuka pilots would like to have a word with you. :D
plus ive allready "posted" the fw200 condor, but ive realised my mistake, so need need to flame me on it :uhoh :bolt:
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the lancstuka pilots would like to have a word with you. :D
plus ive allready "posted" the fw200 condor, but ive realised my mistake, so need need to flame me on it :uhoh :bolt:
Lanc Stukas . . .aaaarrrrrgh...
The Ju-188 is also an extremely capable plane and worthy of a look. I think the 217 started service in 1941 and the 188 early enough in 1943 to be considered a "mid war" entrant relative to the US.
The Do-217 probably had more succesful sorties in a single mission than did the entuire history of the 177. Both were pressed into other needs--such as night fighter which was a role the 177 wasn't tried in--indicating that they were such capable aircraft they'd be used as needed. This is in contrast to the 177 which was built based on need and projected serviceability and never lived up to its billing. Collossal waste of time and resources.
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I just see girls getting upset at the thought of another buff. It's not that the plane sucked - the BETTY "sucks". It's a candle without a match.
We've got Jap bombers,
We've got RAF and US bombers out the yin yang
And then we have the JU-88 formation German bomber....all by itself...oooooooo
Quit :cry because you might have to shoot down a new bomber....from the way it looks their all turning into roman candles anyway. :ahand
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Once again,Gentlemen-Germany never produced a quality Heavy Bomber.
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nor did they need one hence all the great medium bombers they produced :noid
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"Quanity has a quality all it's own"
J.Stalin (?)
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"Quanity has a quality all it's own"
J.Stalin (?)
exactly
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Once again,Gentlemen-Germany never produced a quality Heavy Bomber.
I think the Do-217 was classified as a heavy due to its range, payload, and speed.
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I just see girls getting upset at the thought of another buff. It's not that the plane sucked - the BETTY "sucks". It's a candle without a match.
The Betty did not suck as an aircraft, it was extremely successful, fulfilling its role and meeting its specifications. The Betty had some seriously successful sorties and posed a threat often. Yeah it was not armored enough, guess what: nothing Japan built outside a few battleships and flying boats was. The Betty was a success in terms of being able to fly missions, the He-177 was not.
Betty flew all war, 177 was out in 1941 and was never a player, ever, for the duration.
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because Germany was rolling down the block blastin' German dance songs while smashing up towns with their tanks and arty.....oooooo arty....... ô_ô
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lol guys, you heard from an allied withnes that the 177 was a piece of crap, then it must be true... LOL the early model was, for sure, i admit it. BUT HECK, they cured its engine overheating and flaming habit in 1942, and after that the 177 (a-5) wasnt a piece of crap anymore. Its sad some allied fanatic cant understand it.
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So about the plane.............Yes or no
i vote yes.....ya nazi lol :neener:
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i vote yes.....ya nazi lol :neener:
:lol :aok
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lol guys, you heard from an allied withnes that the 177 was a piece of crap, then it must be true... LOL the early model was, for sure, i admit it. BUT HECK, they cured its engine overheating and flaming habit in 1942, and after that the 177 (a-5) wasnt a piece of crap anymore. Its sad some allied fanatic cant understand it.
The A-5 didn't fix the engines entirely. It was didn't catch fire on its own, but it was still nothing like as reliable as needed.
The He177 was one of the worst weapon programs in history. Heinkel tried valiantly to fix it, and could have had if the Reichsluftfahrtministerium would have let them go to four engines.
Ironically, the Manchester, Avro's first go at a heavy, was similarly handicapped by the attempt to use two massive engines developed as a merging of two smaller engines. Avro solved it by going to four Merlins. If the Reichsluftfahrtministerium had let Heinkel go to four smaller engines, like they wanted to, the He277 could have been flying very successfully, much like the Lancaster.
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Heut' Ist Mein Tag
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Guys-Germany never produced a QUALITY heavy bomber...
but if HTC can model the 'uber bomber' correctly...(?)
In the meantime,the -110G serves well to slip bombs/
rockets up someone's backside. lol
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The He177 was one of the worst weapon programs in history. Heinkel tried valiantly to fix it, and could have had if the Reichsluftfahrtministerium would have let them go to four engines.
It did have four engines. It only had two propellers. That was part of the problem.
I think you are saying four single engines, yes?
wrongway
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It did have four engines. It only had two propellers. That was part of the problem.
I think you are saying four single engines, yes?
wrongway
It had the same kind of abomination engines that the Manchester had. Each engine, DB606 and DB610 in the case of the He177 and RR Vulture in the case of the Manchester, was actually made up of two smaller engines, DB 601s for the DB 606, DB 605s for the DB 610 and RR Kestrels for the RR Vulture, locked together and working on a single crank shaft. In each case, DB 606, DB 610 and RR Vulture, the conglomerate is considered a single engine. So the He177 and Manchester are both considered twin engined aircraft while the He277 and Lancaster are four engined aircraft.
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I always thought that the RR Vulture was a purpose built X block engine, are you saying that it was really two V's ><
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About every few months, some kid "discovers" that the Germans built this plane. The next "Discovery" will be about the
About the shockingly handsome Me 264, so handsome it'll have every kid in the game nagging HTC for it; and lo, we'll get it - and all will be right in the AH luftwaffelskies.
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:aok
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About the shockingly handsome Me 264, so handsome it'll have every kid in the game nagging HTC for it; and lo, we'll get it - and all will be right in the AH luftwaffelskies.
Ok, so now you all are bagging me about me being a kid?
This plane caught fire a lot....yes it did......1 bullet in the fuel tank will catch the A6M on fire wont it? Its a very effective plane isnt it? This plane is very heavy, very good armament, and a decent top speed.
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No but you definitely got the luftwaffle starchiness down pat.
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The 264? :headscratch:
Ok, so now you all are bagging me about me being a kid?
This plane caught fire a lot....yes it did......1 bullet in the fuel tank will catch the A6M on fire wont it? Its a very effective plane isnt it? This plane is very heavy, very good armament, and a decent top speed.
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(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2670/3727178492_a68b87682d_o.jpg)
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The 264? :headscratch:
No the 177....
If the post has been moved to the 264, stop trolling.
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(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2670/3727178492_a68b87682d_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2451/3727178634_1e396289e3_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2636/3727178510_33b058d28a_o.jpg)
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did it see combat?
what was its bombload?
its armament?
ive never seen it before :headscratch: its like they took the ar234 and decided to switch it into a 4 engined bomber
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It's not a serious request. Just a plug for one of the best looking warplanes of the period.
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I do not remember the mans name, but just before the start of WW2, there was a man in the Third Reich who was pressing hard for the Luftwaffe to have heavy bombers. However, he was killed (in a He-111 crash if I recall correctly), and the pressure for a heavy bomber died with him. If I remember correctly, it was said that if he had not died, then the chances that Germany would have a standard heavy bomber are pretty good.
Oh and moot, I WANT THAT PLANE! :x And make it a serious request! :x :joystick: :x
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I do not remember the mans name, but just before the start of WW2, there was a man in the Third Reich who was pressing hard for the Luftwaffe to have heavy bombers. However, he was killed (in a He-111 crash if I recall correctly), and the pressure for a heavy bomber died with him. If I remember correctly, it was said that if he had not died, then the chances that Germany would have a standard heavy bomber are pretty good.
Oh and moot, I WANT THAT PLANE! :x And make it a serious request! :x :joystick: :x
well....didnt germany have a large heavy bomber in production to carry its then still not fully developed A-bomb?
history channel had a show on it.
said the germans were building a giant 4 engine bomber to drop A-bombs on large american industrial cities.
but the bomber of course couldnt reach america from germany. so the germans tried to build bases on ether iceland or greenland(cant remember which) to launch bomber attacks on america from. but america found out about the airfields being constructed and took them over before the germans could finish them.
it also said the only prototype of this plane was destroyed by allied bombing.
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You should not take History Channel shows' word for anything, but rather take the main historical elements they mention (e.g. plane model number, event dates and locations, key people's names, etc) and then research those yourself in actual resources.
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See Rule #4
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Sakai,
Personal attacks like that don't strengthen your argument, and will mostly cause any point you had to be dismissed due to emotion.
The He177A-5 would have been a useful type, if they had gotten it when they got the He177A-1. By the time they did get it, it was too little too late.
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Who's trolling who? I asked a simple question that made perfect sense. Let's recap young man...
No the 177....
If the post has been moved to the 264, stop trolling.
m00t says this:
About the shockingly handsome Me 264, so handsome it'll have every kid in the game nagging HTC for it; and lo, we'll get it - and all will be right in the AH luftwaffelskies.
You say this:
Ok, so now you all are bagging me about me being a kid?
This plane caught fire a lot....yes it did......1 bullet in the fuel tank will catch the A6M on fire wont it? Its a very effective plane isnt it? This plane is very heavy, very good armament, and a decent top speed.
How the heck would you think me to assume you're still talking about 177?
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Yes i realize ive already bumped two of my older posts, but these 3 planes would be a good addition to the plane set.
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+1 for the plane
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He 111 must come first :mad:
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First off noob the plane sucked. It's Engines failed and most crashed becuz of engine fails. The plane wasnt "Mass used". Only about 300 saw service and half didnt even fly a whole sortie before the engines gave.
Major waste of time jolly.
Engine failures aren't modeled in AH so any issues in real life due to the engines won't be inherent in game.
ack-ack
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i like it, but would rather have the fw200 condor first tho.
The Condor would be worthless in AH.
ack-ack
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Well, we could use a Condor to move our head pocket Fuhrer from base to base while he lambasts us for
not winning the war :lol
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+ :aok
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Well, we could use a Condor to move our head pocket Fuhrer from base to base while he lambasts us for
not winning the war :lol
Rino-with all due respect,Sir I submit that 'the leader' should fly in the -177 where he would eventually
roast (per his 'final soloution'). However,it would take the -200 to lift Goerings' fat pompous rear-end.
jolly22-you never saw all this coming,huh? :salute