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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: jolly22 on December 30, 2009, 10:14:27 AM

Title: Give me reasons!!
Post by: jolly22 on December 30, 2009, 10:14:27 AM
I don't know much about the HE111. I went to wiki and all I saw is the picture and immediately thought of the JU 88......Whats the difference?
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Guppy35 on December 30, 2009, 10:18:53 AM
There are these things called books.  They can be found in places known as libraries and bookstores as well as hobby shops.  I'd suggest doing a bit of our own research :)

THe answer to your question is not really a short one.
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: jolly22 on December 30, 2009, 10:22:14 AM
I'm gonna be lazy and rely on you guys.
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: APDrone on December 30, 2009, 01:48:27 PM
I'm gonna be lazy and rely on you guys.

Kinda sums up the whole current generation, wouldn't y'all say?

And they have to fund MY retirement?

sigh..
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: jolly22 on December 30, 2009, 01:50:17 PM
You guys are on this board almost everyday.You guys probably have better, accurate info. Plus i'd like your opinions.
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: AWwrgwy on December 30, 2009, 01:51:41 PM
You guys are on this board almost everyday.You guys probably have better, accurate info. Plus i'd like your opinions.

My opinion: 

Yes, you should do research on your own.



wrongway
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Vertex61 on December 30, 2009, 02:48:26 PM
I don't know much about the HE111. I went to wiki and all I saw is the picture and immediately thought of the JU 88......Whats the difference?


(http://rawsocket.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/noob.jpg)
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: jolly22 on December 30, 2009, 02:52:51 PM
You put the JU88 and HE111 together, side by side, The general looks, look alike.. You can't argue that
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Guppy35 on December 30, 2009, 02:55:35 PM
You put the JU88 and HE111 together, side by side, The general looks, look alike.. You can't argue that

You are kidding right?
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Vertex61 on December 30, 2009, 02:56:39 PM
I r Noob, its true.


Yep
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Vertex61 on December 30, 2009, 02:59:12 PM
This thread is now



(http://mikecane.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/endofblognuke.jpg)
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: 2ace on December 30, 2009, 03:07:26 PM
You put the JU88 and HE111 together, side by side, The general looks, look alike.. You can't argue that
Really? these look nothing like each other. (http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8189/ju88.jpg) (http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9366/he1113.jpg)
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Motherland on December 30, 2009, 03:19:52 PM
You put the JU88 and HE111 together, side by side, The general looks, look alike.. You can't argue that
They don't look alike at all, other than the fact that they're both twin engined bombers with mostly glazed noses.

Anyway... why the He 111?

The most obvious answer is... its history.

The He 111 saw combat from late in the Spanish Civil War (I think it came into service in around 1938?) until the very end of the Second World War. It dropped bombs, launched torpedoes, and ferried cargo in Spain, Poland, France, Britain, the Atlantic, Northern Africa, the Mediterranean, Russia... you name it. The He 111 was a workhorse German bomber and transport and bomber throughout much of the war even though it was eventually obsolete.

Also it's pretty much the definition of what a bomber should look like :D

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-408-0847-10%2C_Flugzeuge_Heinkel_He_111.jpg)

Junkers' is OK but it doesn't come close to the Heinkel's
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-363-2258-11%2C_Flugzeug_Junkers_Ju_88.jpg)
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: jdbecks on December 30, 2009, 03:29:13 PM
Im quite suprised it had not been added along time ago  :cry
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Bronk on December 30, 2009, 03:41:33 PM
Want a reason ehh?
Fly hurri MkI or a spit MkI in a BoB scenario with 88s as a sub for the 111. Then you will know why. :noid
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: 2ADoc on December 30, 2009, 09:52:51 PM
They do look alike if I take both my contacts out and dump chili powder in my eyes and squint real hard.
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: bravoa8 on December 30, 2009, 11:31:05 PM
They do look alike if I take both my contacts out and dump chili powder in my eyes and squint real hard.
Can you even see like that? :huh :lol
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: 2ADoc on December 31, 2009, 05:37:08 PM
Yea but shooting an ILS is really hard. 
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Tarstar on December 31, 2009, 05:41:48 PM

(http://rawsocket.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/noob.jpg)

 :rofl
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: RaptorL on December 31, 2009, 05:46:29 PM
Bring On the HE-111's.
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Digr1 on January 12, 2010, 12:19:17 PM
this should help you about the 111

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=he-111+bomber&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=5bxMS7yxNYqm8Aai6sD3DQ&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CBkQsAQwAw
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Anaxogoras on January 12, 2010, 12:28:09 PM
Want a reason ehh?
Fly hurri MkI or a spit MkI in a BoB scenario with 88s as a sub for the 111. Then you will know why. :noid

+1

The Hurricane Mk I might actually be able to catch an He-111.  The Ju-88 is very fast for its time and only equipped a minority of the Luftwaffe's bomber force in 1940.
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 12, 2010, 12:42:13 PM
Really? these look nothing like each other. (http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8189/ju88.jpg) (http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9366/he1113.jpg)

Are those images of the same plane?  They really do look alike.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Anaxogoras on January 12, 2010, 12:54:07 PM
Poor photo choices.  Wikipedia has photos that make the differences more clear:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/19/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-363-2258-11%2C_Flugzeug_Junkers_Ju_88.jpg/300px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-363-2258-11%2C_Flugzeug_Junkers_Ju_88.jpg)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cc/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-343-0694-21%2C_Belgien-Frankreich%2C_Flugzeug_Heinkel_He_111.jpg/300px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-343-0694-21%2C_Belgien-Frankreich%2C_Flugzeug_Heinkel_He_111.jpg)
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Ack-Ack on January 12, 2010, 01:36:19 PM
Poor photo choices.  Wikipedia has photos that make the differences more clear:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/19/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-363-2258-11%2C_Flugzeug_Junkers_Ju_88.jpg/300px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-363-2258-11%2C_Flugzeug_Junkers_Ju_88.jpg)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cc/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-343-0694-21%2C_Belgien-Frankreich%2C_Flugzeug_Heinkel_He_111.jpg/300px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-343-0694-21%2C_Belgien-Frankreich%2C_Flugzeug_Heinkel_He_111.jpg)

I should have added the [sarcasm] [/sarcasm] tags to my earlier post.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Krusty on January 12, 2010, 04:18:13 PM
+1

The Hurricane Mk I might actually be able to catch an He-111.  The Ju-88 is very fast for its time and only equipped a minority of the Luftwaffe's bomber force in 1940.

Problem is the A-1 was used during BOB, but the A-4 was post-BOB. Different engines, different wingspans, less performance, less defensive guns (only 1 rear dorsal in the A-1).

Overall it's like subbing a Ki67 for a Betty, and that's simply not done for the exact same reasons.

We need so many "earlier" bomber, for so many reasons. He-111 is top of the list!
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: 2ace on January 12, 2010, 05:28:52 PM
Poor photo choices.  Wikipedia has photos that make the differences more clear:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/19/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-363-2258-11%2C_Flugzeug_Junkers_Ju_88.jpg/300px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-363-2258-11%2C_Flugzeug_Junkers_Ju_88.jpg)


(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cc/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-343-0694-21%2C_Belgien-Frankreich%2C_Flugzeug_Heinkel_He_111.jpg/300px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-343-0694-21%2C_Belgien-Frankreich%2C_Flugzeug_Heinkel_He_111.jpg)
yeah,poor photos, i had to leave right after that so i just picked a couple and used them.
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Anaxogoras on January 12, 2010, 05:44:28 PM
Overall it's like subbing a Ki67 for a Betty, and that's simply not done for the exact same reasons.

Where do you get this kind of idea?   For instance, the wikipedia article on the Ju-88 cites Dressel, Joachim and Manfred Griehl, Bombers of the Luftwaffe, as stating that the A-4 was actually slower than the A-1 due to its longer wingspan and bomb bay bulge.  

Fwiw, I've checked their citations of books that I own, and they've always been accurate.  It's when I see citation needed that I take the information with a grain of salt.
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Krusty on January 12, 2010, 06:24:52 PM
Less horsepower in the engines, less wing area (less lift, less climb rate, lower ceiling on a plane that already barely gets to 20k when loaded), and from pics I've seen there is no bomb bay "bulge" difference between the two. I've seen pics of both and didn't notice any major changes there.

A-1 would definitely be a lesser plane, compared to the A-4.
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Anaxogoras on January 12, 2010, 06:31:50 PM
Do you have a source that contradicts Bombers of the Luftwaffe?
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Bronk on January 12, 2010, 06:52:28 PM
Ohhhh boy. :noid
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Krusty on January 12, 2010, 06:56:16 PM
A-1 had 1200 hp Jumo 211B-1 engines
A-4 had around 1400 hp 211Js or 211Fs

The A-4 wasn't ready in time for the BOB. Some A-5s were, though. They used the 1200hp engines, but had the newer wings. I've read a few comments that pilots appreciated the better handling (I assume with aileron control). A minority were A-5s, but present nonetheless.

The A-4, when introduced, had improved armor, and faster-firing MG-81 defensive machine guns. The A-1 would probably be more susceptible to .303 gunfire (which in AH would make as much a difference for the BOB scenario as top speed resuction would!)

As for the "belly bulge" I'd like a better description of what you mean.

A-1:

(http://moskittech.ru/eng/myze/Ju-88A-1/foto/Ju-88A-1_3.jpg)

A-4:

(http://i38.servimg.com/u/f38/11/88/29/34/image111.jpg)

Looks the same to me.
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Anaxogoras on January 12, 2010, 07:11:41 PM
Interesting photos.  I'll admit that I have a heck of a time recognizing any difference between photos of the purported A-4s and A-1s.
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Krusty on January 12, 2010, 07:17:14 PM
Main external differences:

Wings a bit shorter, less wing area, 1 rounded bulge behind the cockpit with a single gun (instead of "goggle"-like twin bulges), single gun in ventral bin.

Otherwise, they look very similar externally.
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Anaxogoras on January 12, 2010, 07:32:41 PM
Sometimes I see photos marked "A-1" with the wingtips of the A-4, and vice versa.
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Bino on January 12, 2010, 09:45:25 PM
According to Green, ISBN 0-671-08160-8, (it's a book thing)...

The A-1 and earlier versions had fabric-covered ailerons (slotted, and linked to the flaps) that extended all the way to the wingtips (60 ft. 3 1/4 in.).  The later, longer wing had metal-covered surfaces that were inset from the wingtips (65 ft. 7 1/2 in.).

The A-4 was to have both the new wing and the more powerful Jumo 211J.  The engines were not yet ready, so the new wing was put on existing A-1s with the Jumo 211G-1, to become the A-5.  (A-1s started out with the Jumo 211B-1, later A-1s had the very similar Jumo 211J-1.)

Thus sayeth the Green.  ;)
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: warphoenix on January 13, 2010, 09:40:23 PM
Really? these look nothing like each other. (http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8189/ju88.jpg) (http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9366/he1113.jpg)
tail section
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Plawranc on January 15, 2010, 05:15:12 AM
Kinda sums up the whole current generation, wouldn't y'all say?

And they have to fund MY retirement?

sigh..

The whole "AMERICAN" generation Drone ;)
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: hlbly on January 15, 2010, 09:06:12 AM
Look like P-38's to me . Without the pretty white star is all . Right ?
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: macleod01 on January 16, 2010, 07:50:39 AM
Kinda sums up the whole current generation, wouldn't y'all say?

And they have to fund MY retirement?

sigh..

Drone with all due respect sir, and I give the older generation a HECK of a lot of respect, I would appreciate it if blanket statements like that were not made for the WHOLE generation.

I will always, ALWAYS go out of my way to help those that need it, and it annoys me when some lazy tard comes on, and I get tarred with the same brush.

I'm 21, so I'm a yob, I hang around on street corners with a knife in my hoodie, waiting to mug some old person so I can buy drugs and binge drink every weekend

THE TRUTH- I'm 21, been brought up well and am almost TeeTotal. I have never touched drugs in my life, will happily give up my seat on a bus/train/ whatever so a lady or someone in more need of it than me can have it. I will help the elderly with their bags on a train or bus, even if I don't know them or am a long way from home. I'm a young lad and can manage it, where as they may struggle.

Please sir, we're not all lazy useless yobs, no matter what the press says


Macleod01
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: hlbly on January 16, 2010, 06:09:12 PM
Drone with all due respect sir, and I give the older generation a HECK of a lot of respect, I would appreciate it if blanket statements like that were not made for the WHOLE generation.

I will always, ALWAYS go out of my way to help those that need it, and it annoys me when some lazy tard comes on, and I get tarred with the same brush.

I'm 21, so I'm a yob, I hang around on street corners with a knife in my hoodie, waiting to mug some old person so I can buy drugs and binge drink every weekend

THE TRUTH- I'm 21, been brought up well and am almost TeeTotal. I have never touched drugs in my life, will happily give up my seat on a bus/train/ whatever so a lady or someone in more need of it than me can have it. I will help the elderly with their bags on a train or bus, even if I don't know them or am a long way from home. I'm a young lad and can manage it, where as they may struggle.

Please sir, we're not all lazy useless yobs, no matter what the press says


Macleod01
I don't believe press hardly ever , and you give me hope . However your young enjoy it bro ,only so many years you can get a good drunk on and not pay the next am . ;)
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Penguin on January 16, 2010, 06:33:04 PM
Drone with all due respect sir, and I give the older generation a HECK of a lot of respect, I would appreciate it if blanket statements like that were not made for the WHOLE generation.

I will always, ALWAYS go out of my way to help those that need it, and it annoys me when some lazy tard comes on, and I get tarred with the same brush.

I'm 21, so I'm a yob, I hang around on street corners with a knife in my hoodie, waiting to mug some old person so I can buy drugs and binge drink every weekend

THE TRUTH- I'm 21, been brought up well and am almost TeeTotal. I have never touched drugs in my life, will happily give up my seat on a bus/train/ whatever so a lady or someone in more need of it than me can have it. I will help the elderly with their bags on a train or bus, even if I don't know them or am a long way from home. I'm a young lad and can manage it, where as they may struggle.

Please sir, we're not all lazy useless yobs, no matter what the press says


Macleod01

Here here!  To a brilliant defense of all the young and squeakly!  :cheers:

-Penguin
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: Simba on January 16, 2010, 11:03:26 PM
"We need so many "earlier" bomber, for so many reasons. He-111 is top of the list!"

The most-produced bomber in RAF history tops my bomber wish-list - the Vickers Wellington.

 :cool:
Title: Re: Give me reasons!!
Post by: sandwich on January 18, 2010, 11:21:16 AM
The whole "AMERICAN" generation Drone ;)

Wow. Really?