Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: LYNX on January 08, 2010, 10:12:42 AM
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There's more room to panic
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc288/lynx-AH/odds-of-airborne-terror2.jpg)
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:huh
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WTF?
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Open thy eyes and thy shell see :old:
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Open thy eyes and thy shell see :old:
You need attention this bad? I guess.
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Odds of Lynx getting blown up by his terrorist neighbors inadvertently setting of the bomb they were making, 1 in 5,234 :bolt:
Odds on Lynx getting radiation poisoning from his terrorists neighbors leaving plutonium about as they attempt to make a dirty bomb, 1 in 8,539 :banana:
Odds on Lynx stubbing toe while stumbling around in the dark attempting to spy on law abiding nieghbors suspected of being terrorists cell: 1 in 3 :O
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Odds of Lynx getting pwnd on this thread: 1 to 1.
Some people just allow the brain to execute too many functions before considering the application of brakes.
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Lynx is 100% correct.
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:noid :noid :noid
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1994 I was Flying from Frankfurt Germany Lufthansa to New wark NY after 4-5 hours a man stand Up screams and run to the Cockpit door and Hammered against the door.
2 Stewardess try to pull him Back,No one Stands up No Body cared,I stud up walked to the Door,turned him Around and Punched him at his chin so he falled asleep and I get back to my cold beer :cheers:
That costs me 550 Deutschmarks when I went back to Germany.
Dont Talk do something
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You need attention this bad? I guess.
Sorry What did I miss? I dont visit the O club that much so mabey thats it.
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Odds of Lynx getting pwnd on this thread: 1 to 1.
Actually 0 to 1. He's completely correct, as those are all valid statistics, and the conclusions drawn from them are all valid.
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Terrorists are noobs that are getting way too much attention and instead of moving them to gitmo we should build a terrorist prison at the south pole where no matter where they go they cant face east. :neener:
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Terrorists are noobs that are getting way too much attention and instead of moving them to gitmo we should build a terrorist prison at the south pole where no matter where they go they cant face east. :neener:
:rofl
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Sorry What did I miss? I dont visit the O club that much so mabey thats it.
I found a picture (above) that I thought worthy of consideration, poignant yet amusing. So posted it. Meatwad replied "wft" so I suggested he look around. To which Karaya gave an asinine reply "You need attention this bad? I guess" In keeping and worthy of his post count. Nothing new.
As for the picture .... I feel it implies an awful lot considering so few are causing so much hassle, so much money to be spent and the loss of civil liberties to those on the right side of the fence.
Something needs attention and I don't think its me.
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To which Karaya gave an asinine reply worthy of his post count. Nothing new..
you expected something more? come on LYNX you how things are around here
:salute old friend
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Thats how they are effective tho. Thats why its called terrorism. Its 99.9% mental. they attack the minds.... And I dont buy one guy with a towel wrapped around his head in some cave can pull it off. You dont see that anywere else in History.
"Ya but look at all these bamfa sticks ive just never hear of them hitting something so big before".
"We are only meant to think sand people did this. These blast points are to accurate for sand people".
Of course Obiwan says it much better.
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Thats how they are effective tho. Thats why its called terrorism. Its 99.9% mental. they attack the minds.... And I dont buy one guy with a towel wrapped around his head in some cave can pull it off. You dont see that anywere else in History.
"Ya but look at all these ghaffi sticks ive just never hear of them hitting something so big before".
"We are only meant to think sand people did this. These blast points are to accurate for sand people".
Of course Obiwan says it much better.
Fixed :D
What can I say, I'm a nerd.
Not that I think we need to live in fear of terrorism, I just thought I should point out that while those numbers may indicate that we have on average one terrorist attack per 3,105 years of flight time, all of the attacks have been within the last few years. So, those numbers are just a tad misleading. Just sayin.
Do I fear terrorists every time I get on a plane? No. Have I even given two thoughts to the possibility that I might be sharing a flight with a terrorist? No.
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You need attention this bad? I guess.
Karaya,
You know I've had your back for the most part, but why belittle someone for posting something in the O'Club that they think is relevant? Do you drop the hammer on someone talking about a fishing lure, model airplane, or a Wednesday Babe that doesn't seem up to snuff? Why is this different?
Don't mean to be a jerk, but these "You're just looking for attention" posts really pi$$ me off. In general discussion or aircraft and vehicles, cool. There needs to be relevance to the topic or forum. This is the O'Club though.
If ya think about it, it's kinda the reason that the O'Club exists...
All of this is just IMHO.
Jager
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the loss of civil liberties to those on the right side of the fence.
I can't think of one single constitutionally provided right or liberty that I've been denied since 9/11. So I have to stand in line for 15 minutes before I go through a security scanner before I go to the airline gate--no big deal. Unless you're contention is that the cost-benefit of all the enhanced security isn't justified?
Yes, there are people out there that would love to kill you. No, they are not hiding behind every single tree in Hyde Park. Some of that is because security measures are preventing them from entering or operating in our countries and the other is that there's just not that many of them, relatively speaking. Either way, nice trivia for the cocktail party circuit.
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Karaya,
.....but why belittle someone for posting something in the O'Club that they think is relevant? Do you drop the hammer on someone talking about a fishing lure, model airplane, or a Wednesday Babe that doesn't seem up to snuff? Why is this different?
Don't mean to be a jerk, but these "You're just looking for attention" posts really pi$$ me off. In general discussion or aircraft and vehicles, cool. There needs to be relevance to the topic or forum. This is the O'Club though.
Jager
Karaya can always be counted on to post something churlish, pejorative or petulant.
Sometimes all three at once. One can rarely reach such a pinnacle of egocentric obnoxia, it takes years of dedication and practice. :lol
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I can't think of one single constitutionally provided right or liberty that I've been denied since 9/11.
With respect. You are not thinking hard enough or haven't been in a situation that makes you think .."hold on a second...this ain't right."
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Karaya can always be counted on to post something churlish, pejorative or petulant.
Sometimes all three at once. One can rarely reach such a pinnacle of egocentric obnoxia, it takes years of dedication and practice. :lol
I may not go quite that far Dred....
That being that, are you still flying? Haven't seen ya up in awhile.
Jager
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look up the stats for people that die from accidents in the home.
ie: slipping in the shower .. etc.
Never Go Home!!
-just sayin, fun with stats
-GE aka Frank
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look up the stats for people that die from accidents in the home.
ie: slipping in the shower .. etc.
Never Go Home!!
-just sayin, fun with stats
-GE aka Frank
like this
United States - The death toll on our highways makes driving the number one cause of death and injury for young people ages 5 to 27. Highway crashes cause 94 percent of all transportation fatalities and 99 percent of all transportation injuries, yet traffic safety programs receive only one percent of the funding of the U.S. DOT budget. The staggering loss of life and the incidence of life-threatening injuries occurring each year is best described as a public health crisis. According to a WHO report, "The Injury Pyramid," for every motor vehicle injury resulting in death in the US, 13 people sustain injuries severe enough to require hospitalization.
In the US DOT publication "The Economic Costs Of Motor Vehicle Crashes," NHTSA investigator Lawrence J. Blincoe reports that in 1994, motor vehicle crashes accounted for 40,676 fatalites, and 4,100,000 injuries (of which 533,000 or 13% were serious). The total lifetime cost to the US economy for automobile accidents that occured in 1994 was $150.5 billion. The 1996 NHTSA report "1996 Traffic Safety Facts" (pdf) came up with similar though somewhat improved statistics: 41,907 fatalities and 3,511,000 injuries, 456,430 of them serious. The 1997 NHTSA report "Traffic Safety Facts 1997" reports 41,967 fatalities and 3,399,000 injuries, 441,870 of them serious. The 1998 NHTSA report "Traffic Safety Facts 1998 Annual Report" reports 41,471 fatalities and 3,192,000 injuries, 414,960 of them serious.
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"The 1998 NHTSA report "Traffic Safety Facts 1998 Annual Report" reports 41,471 fatalities and 3,192,000 injuries, 414,960 of them serious. "
That's why I *drive* when I drive ..not 'text' ..not 'phone' ..seatbelt on *always*
Shoulda painted 3 kill flags on the Durango ..took out 3 Toyota Camry's ..
..ROFL at the lady who was watchin a guy jog on the street, didn't see the Big Bloo Bus stop for the car turning in front of me ..the trailer hitch tore her hood pretty much off and damn if she didn't bend my license plate holder!
..then there was the one packed with Mexicans, driver was on the *phone* and ran a redlight as the Big Bloo Bus was traveling thru the intersection on the *green* light ..that one flat spotted all 4 tires, ruined a running board, ...she hit the right rear tire dead on.. when the Durango spun from the impact it tore up the running board a little, messed up the leaf spring mount on that side a bit too.
..and so on.
-just sayin
-GE
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With respect. You are not thinking hard enough or haven't been in a situation that makes you think .."hold on a second...this ain't right."
I'm probably biased, because I know what those guys are a) capable of and b) made of. They are not bogey men, they are not unbeatable, but they are dangerous. I don't know how it is over in England, other that what I've been exposed to when I've traveled over there. But, I haven't seen anything out of the box, and I think the security measures they have in place (in the U.S.) are consider prudent by our national consensus. That doesn't mean everyone's happy with them, but most see them as now necessary.
I respect your opinion, even if I don't understand it.
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you expected something more? come on LYNX you how things are around here
:salute old friend
Pot meet kettle.
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Karaya can always be counted on to post something churlish, pejorative or petulant.
Sometimes all three at once. One can rarely reach such a pinnacle of egocentric obnoxia, it takes years of dedication and practice. :lol
Keep accessing the Merriam Webster Dictionary DRED. You're keeping it going! "LMFAO!!!!!"
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Karaya,
You know I've had your back for the most part, but why belittle someone for posting something in the O'Club that they think is relevant? Do you drop the hammer on someone talking about a fishing lure, model airplane, or a Wednesday Babe that doesn't seem up to snuff? Why is this different?
Don't mean to be a jerk, but these "You're just looking for attention" posts really pi$$ me off. In general discussion or aircraft and vehicles, cool. There needs to be relevance to the topic or forum. This is the O'Club though.
If ya think about it, it's kinda the reason that the O'Club exists...
All of this is just IMHO.
Jager
The only reason for that picture to be posted, is for Flamebait. He already eluded to it in his "spent so much money and loss of civil liberties" reply on the bottom of the first page. That picture isn't posted in ANY FORUM in a "Friendly" manner. Also, for Biploar and DREDger's "trolling my posts", they are their own worst enemy. One day they'll figure it out.
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I can't think of one single constitutionally provided right or liberty that I've been denied since 9/11. So I have to stand in line for 15 minutes before I go through a security scanner before I go to the airline gate--no big deal. Unless you're contention is that the cost-benefit of all the enhanced security isn't justified?
Yes, there are people out there that would love to kill you. No, they are not hiding behind every single tree in Hyde Park. Some of that is because security measures are preventing them from entering or operating in our countries and the other is that there's just not that many of them, relatively speaking. Either way, nice trivia for the cocktail party circuit.
Someone else saw it the same way I did. Amazing. "Let's single out Karaya!!!!!"
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The only reason for that picture to be posted, is for Flamebait.
Not only is that a very weak opinion to validate it's not even an excuse to pardon your behaviour. This reply along with your second is just another ill-conceived “click to post” response, in keeping and worthy of your post count.
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I really liked that pic Lynx, those numbers make me laugh.
I might add the airplane is much safer than the car -at least here in italy LOL-
So much noise around the "air terrorism" because of 9/11 and perhaps because such big jet planes can be used like big AP-HE bombs causing more victims. IMO looks like the media like to talk about a plane used for such things (spectacular??).
Anyways there are more people dying from doctors negligence, addicting drugs, car accidents, cancer, pollution, murders, family murders. And many more are lives destroyed by all the kinds of abuses, betrayals, natural calamities and so on....
<S> Admiral Lynx
@karaya: what's up with the multiple and consecutive posts? I learned how to do everything in 1 single post
it's not that hard:
post #1
reply to post #1
post #2
reply to post #2
post #3
reply to post #3
..... and so on
for more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBCode
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Thiis thread is all pretty funny, but Im sorry that topic is not...
many of warrior still fighting for the actions of so few on that day :salute
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LOL, just came across the news from this morning. Apparently, that Somalian (Or was he Nigerian) imbecile that tried to blow up an airliner the other day with the sole effect of charring himself, has claimed...innocent.
What a joke, - oh what a moron, - oh the humanity!!!!
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I can't think of one single constitutionally provided right or liberty that I've been denied since 9/11.
well the law in the UK has changed in several respects which reduce our liberty in some pretty fundamental ways, the police now have "special powers" which are so vaguely defined that they can be applied to pretty much anyone. eg. right to arrest for what amounts to "looking suspicious", detention without charge for 28 days (especially galling this one considering the magna carta and habeus corpus), photographing police officers a criminal offense (there goes accountability and policing by consent), freedoms of association and movement etc etc.
pretty sure the homeland security act contains similar curtailments of liberty, to say nothing of gitmo...
LOL, just came across the news from this morning. Apparently, that Somalian (Or was he Nigerian) imbecile that tried to blow up an airliner the other day with the sole effect of charring himself, has claimed...innocent.
yeah I noticed that - wtf? :headscratch:
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The only reason for that picture to be posted, is for Flamebait. He already eluded to it in his "spent so much money and loss of civil liberties" reply on the bottom of the first page. That picture isn't posted in ANY FORUM in a "Friendly" manner. Also, for Biploar and DREDger's "trolling my posts", they are their own worst enemy. One day they'll figure it out.
:huh
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pretty sure the homeland security act contains similar curtailments of liberty, to say nothing of gitmo...
I've seen nothing from HSA that impacts my life except for when I wait in line for security at the airport. As for Gitmo, I don't know of any US citizens that are or have been detained there.
I certainly can't speak for what goes on in England. I kind of figured as much bad press as the US gets regarding this stuff, especially on your side of the pond, that we'd be suffering from a police state, and not you guys.
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gitmo, bad topic :aok :bolt:
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(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc288/lynx-AH/odds-of-airborne-terror2.jpg)
These figures show the measure of perspective is out of balance. So much drama for so few attention seekers. That's what amuses me. Maybe we should tackle road safety with the same vigour. It would serve us far better.
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WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
:rolleyes:
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:huh
Why am I not surprised? Throw up the "Blind Bats Bat Signal" and get more to post in this, please.
Thiis thread is all pretty funny, but Im sorry that topic is not...
many of warrior still fighting for the actions of so few on that day :salute
Agree.
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(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc288/lynx-AH/odds-of-airborne-terror2.jpg)
These figures show the measure of perspective is out of balance. So much drama for so few attention seekers. That's what amuses me. Maybe we should tackle road safety with the same vigour. It would serve us far better.
So what number would satisfy some sort of urgency to protect our airline passengers? 1,000 deaths? 10,000 deaths? At what point does this reach proportions that would raise it above common violent crime? The bottom line is that this issue has galvanized the U.S. public, and we don't mind.
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(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc288/lynx-AH/odds-of-airborne-terror2.jpg)
These figures show the measure of perspective is out of balance. So much drama for so few attention seekers. That's what amuses me. Maybe we should tackle road safety with the same vigour. It would serve us far better.
If want to compare car accidents with terriosts acts you should use numbers from car accidents that were done intentionally by drivers.
:old:
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Someone else saw it the same way I did. Amazing. "Let's single out Karaya!!!!!"
I dont know if im in this "group" but that was not my intention when I replied quoting you on page 1.
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I dont know if im in this "group" but that was not my intention when I replied quoting you on page 1.
No worries.
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Why am I not surprised? Throw up the "Blind Bats Bat Signal" and get more to post in this, please.
Agree.
Actually that has nothing to do with it, Im just confused at what your point might be.
You called it flamebaiting, I would think its a topic that could actually foster an intelligent discussion.
Happily im my own person, capable of making my own decisions. If i thought a squadie ( or anyone else )was wrong, I would have no second thoughts on posting my opinion in a respectable manner, something i believe your capable of, just chose not to do.
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Every single "countermeasure" put in place to make you feel safer has been purely reactionary and hasn't prevented one single episode. When I see hundreds of people standing in line with their shoes in one hand and their underwear in the other I will know that the terrorists have won.
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I'd happily patrol our nation's freeways, calling in airstrikes on drunk and other reckless drivers... Set up snipers on overpasses to shoot people texting while driving, use our EW assets to jam cellphones on freeways when there is a lot of traffic or during bad weather. Really attack the problem of motor vehicle deaths with even a fraction of the effort we've put into chasing a bunch of losers through the mountains of Afghanistan, and we could see some really good results.
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That number should be bigger, about 5000+ bigger
:salute
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Every single "countermeasure" put in place to make you feel safer has been purely reactionary and hasn't prevented one single episode.
How do you know they haven't prevented a subsequent incident?
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How do you know they haven't prevented a subsequent incident?
What makes you think they have? I t is a simple, verifiable FACT that every so-called counter measure is a hyper-reactive knee-jerk reaction to a perceived threat. The next time you're standing in line for two hours at the airport with your shoes in one hand and your skivies in the other, think about the absolutely porous southern border and a well-place surplus TOW missile a half a mile from the end of the runway. Silly rules that make women and pansies feel safe do not stop terrorists; they only interfere with the liberties and freedom of honest citizens.
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Every single "countermeasure" put in place to make you feel safer has been purely reactionary and hasn't prevented one single episode. When I see hundreds of people standing in line with their shoes in one hand and their underwear in the other I will know that the terrorists have won.
That is an absurd statement, can't be verified and I doubt even cited from a credible source. Even before 911 you had to go through a security check to get on an airplane, which involved at least a metal detector. The Israeli airlines El Al hasn't had a terrorist incident and they have very rigorous security checks.
I agree the security checks are a pain in the bellybutton and will even concede many are worthless. Checking grandma over a 30 y/o single male is idiotic and political correctness is a serious hindrance. Calling it taking away of my freedom is a stretch though. You have the right not to fly. I willing to suffer the inconvenience if there is an off chance it might deter some nut.
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Anyone who would give up freedom in order to ensure security deserves neither. The best way to ensure safety on airliners is to allow open carry.
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What makes you think they have?
You're right--there are hypothetical situations out there that can get around what's in place right now. For the most part, we think of them while we are being inconvenienced after running late to the airport. However, I have actual knowledge of specific security measures that are in place that prevented and/or deterred subsequent attacks. You think those killers would give up such an efficient weapon so easily? After seeing the success of those attacks, they tried everything to test our ability to prevent them from doing so again. The long line at the metal detector isn't the only thing going on out there. Its merely the only one that impacts most of us.
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I'd happily patrol our nation's freeways, calling in airstrikes on drunk and other reckless drivers... Set up snipers on overpasses to shoot people texting while driving, use our EW assets to jam cellphones on freeways when there is a lot of traffic or during bad weather. Really attack the problem of motor vehicle deaths with even a fraction of the effort we've put into chasing a bunch of losers through the mountains of Afghanistan, and we could see some really good results.
Well someone has there head up there butt, what does the idiots that talk on their cell have anything to do with terrorist?
When is an Americans right to live and pursue happiness end and begin?
Yes we need to do more about the morons who cause accidents but they are no way in connection with stopping terrorism.
Raise the driving age to 21 along with stiffer punishments for driving like a moron, wait you might be a high school student and you have been brainwashed by the public stupidity system so I will cut you a little slack.
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You're right--there are hypothetical situations out there that can get around what's in place right now. For the most part, we think of them while we are being inconvenienced after running late to the airport. However, I have actual knowledge of specific security measures that are in place that prevented and/or deterred subsequent attacks. You think those killers would give up such an efficient weapon so easily? After seeing the success of those attacks, they tried everything to test our ability to prevent them from doing so again. The long line at the metal detector isn't the only thing going on out there. Its merely the only one that impacts most of us.
As soon as airline passengers figured out that cooperating with hijackers is the wrong thing to do, airplanes stopped being an effective weapon. NOW... Blowing up random airplanes will always be an effective way to scare people but the last time a hijacked airliner was/will be used as a weapon was 09/11/2001. BUT... Blowing up airplanes doesn't have to be done from inside the airplane.
Guy puts flammable liquid on airplane... no liquids allowed on airplanes. Guy puts explosives in shoes... all shoes have to be removed and examined. Guy puts explosives in underwear... all passengers must undergo xray screening. It would be hilarious if it were a fictitious joke. In some cave somewhere Osama is laughing his arse off wondering what he can get us to do next...
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As soon as airline passengers figured out that cooperating with hijackers is the wrong thing to do, airplanes stopped being an effective weapon. NOW... Blowing up random airplanes will always be an effective way to scare people but the last time a hijacked airliner was/will be used as a weapon was 09/11/2001. BUT... Blowing up airplanes doesn't have to be done from inside the airplane.
Guy puts flammable liquid on airplane... no liquids allowed on airplanes. Guy puts explosives in shoes... all shoes have to be removed and examined. Guy puts explosives in underwear... all passengers must undergo xray screening. It would be hilarious if it were a fictitious joke. In some cave somewhere Osama is laughing his arse off wondering what he can get us to do next...
Just about every rule that exists in society is a direct result of someone doing something that no one else expected. The American public would not have consented to all of these measures if 9/11 had never happened. We'd still be eating with real knives and forks in first class, and bringing the Cosco sized bottles of hand lotion on board. The HSA and TSA wouldn't even exist. So, really, saying that the rules are reactionary is merely a truism.
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Some make it sound as though terrorism only started on 9/11, sorry but other countries we fighting terrorism a long time before this sad event. Not trying to play down the tragic events of 9/11 just that so many never thought of the hardships others have endured for years.
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Some make it sound as though terrorism only started on 9/11, sorry but other countries we fighting terrorism a long time before this sad event. Not trying to play down the tragic events of 9/11 just that so many never thought of the hardships others have endured for years.
Truer words have never been spoken. :rock
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Truer words have never been spoken. :rock
Agreed 100%
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I think the west has become outlandishly paranoid. The figures in the thread picture go along way in this argument. What seems to have slipped everyone’s attentions is that the present measures are capable of protecting us all. Save for failure of duty or humane error. I, to some degree, concur with sluggish take on things. When the next failed radical turns out to be a butt bomber are we all going to be forced to moon the check in clerks? It’s just getting ridicules. Unless you’re willing to build fortress USA or what ever country, you just aren’t going to stop a hard-core radical. Where do you draw the line? Full strip search with X-rays? Luggage arriving on a separate cargo plane? Solid fencing along every runway? Flares and chaff on final and take off? I ask you who is suffering the most from the hassle and who’s paying for it?
As for civil liberties. They mostly impact us by inconveniencing us. To a degree we all accept it as a bye product of safety. However, when certain anti terror laws are used out side of the purposes they were intended for, then that’s a different matter. It’s happened here in the UK. Not to get all conspiracy theory about this but anti terror and health and bleedin safety will see the end of our rightful liberty if not kept in check.
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The US would rather spend a quarter billion on a bunch of VERY invasive machines, that which they might hassle EVERYone equally, rather than do the obvious, as that might look like they were 'profiling'
The one security precaution the government refused to consider was to require extra screening for passengers who looked like the last three-dozen terrorists to attack airplanes.
Since Muslims took down Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988, every attack on a commercial airliner has been committed by foreign-born Muslim men with the same hair color, eye color and skin color. Half of them have been named Mohammed.
I think we need to hassle a bunch more little old ladies in wheel chairs :aok
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The US would rather spend a quarter billion on a bunch of VERY invasive machines, that which they might hassle EVERYone equally, rather than do the obvious, as that might look like they were 'profiling' I think we need to hassle a bunch more little old ladies in wheel chairs :aok
Oh dude. Could you visualize the raggy arse bowl popping butt search..... :bolt:
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That's the newest thing I was hearing about...lol I guess they take a laxative... then cram as much Semtex up there as will fit... :huh
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Someone else saw it the same way I did. Amazing. "Let's single out Karaya!!!!!"
Well, it is your fault ya know?
:aok :lol
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I think the west has become outlandishly paranoid. The figures in the thread picture go along way in this argument. What seems to have slipped everyone’s attentions is that the present measures are capable of protecting us all. Save for failure of duty or humane error. I, to some degree, concur with sluggish take on things. When the next failed radical turns out to be a butt bomber are we all going to be forced to moon the check in clerks? It’s just getting ridicules. Unless you’re willing to build fortress USA or what ever country, you just aren’t going to stop a hard-core radical. Where do you draw the line? Full strip search with X-rays? Luggage arriving on a separate cargo plane? Solid fencing along every runway? Flares and chaff on final and take off? I ask you who is suffering the most from the hassle and who’s paying for it?
As for civil liberties. They mostly impact us by inconveniencing us. To a degree we all accept it as a bye product of safety. However, when certain anti terror laws are used out side of the purposes they were intended for, then that’s a different matter. It’s happened here in the UK. Not to get all conspiracy theory about this but anti terror and health and bleedin safety will see the end of our rightful liberty if not kept in check.
So what's your solution? Just accept that a couple of us are going to get whacked every few months or so?
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Think someone wont take a dump in your breakfast, then dont bother reading this post.
Statistics show there is a 1 in 362,499,506 bagrat will poop in your cereal... keep your eyes peeled for pantless bagrats. unless u think u dont have to worry about me poopin in ur cheerios.
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So what's your solution? Just accept that a couple of us are going to get whacked every few months or so?
Sorry Stoney but right here is the paranoia that I'm on about..."Every few months". I can only think of Lockerbie and 9/11 that have targeted the "west" in the last 20 years. It's been years since a well-organised group took out an airliner. Granted there have been two (2) attempts since and the words Al-Qaeda have been banded about but the failed bombers are not true associates. They are little more than sad wanna be's that have put themselves forward with less than sophisticated gear. Knob heads more so than Al-Qaeda. Just read up on the shoe bomber. A failure in life and a failure in death.... thankfully. I'll wager the knob bomber has a similar profile. A disassociated sad little twerp out to make a name for themselves. These attempts are hardly "every few months or so."
I'll put 2 things to you.
1) If they really want to take out an airliner they will. When my house was burgled a copper said to me "your house is as safe as a pain of glass if they really want to get in”. Pretty much sums up everything security wise including air travel.
2) The level of present security is good enough with the exception of human error or dereliction of protocols. Now that that has been high lighted all that remains is to tighten it up.
It's about time we the people of the west take a factual look at things and throw down the perceived shackles of terrorism and get on with our lives.
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Tell that to a GI thats in Afghanistan right now........
I wonder, have anyone been turned away at the security gates because they found something suspicious on them?
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Tell that to a GI thats in Afghanistan right now........
I wonder, have anyone been turned away at the security gates because they found something suspicious on them?
Turned away? Seriously? Every time they catch someone (either before or after they make it onto the plane) they hold that person up to the light and say "See! This right here! This is why we have to make travelling even more difficult for honest people!"
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Good question!
The problem I see is that we have a very odd domino theory, like the one in Korea: If we
don't stop the reds here, tomorrow they will be in Hawii!
If we do act as the domino effect shows, a problem will eventually emerge; someone will take a step back and see that the measures are outdated. Then they will slowly be removed as needed to sate the public's need for freedom.
Who said the thing about guns? Totally agree, all seats should have either a Beretta 9mm or Colt .45 in the armrest, released by the pilot. A few may fall in the crossfire, but fewer than if the hijacking went unabated. Kids won't get them. Gun safety before each flight- to minimize misfire deaths.
Crew members should be given Kriss Super-V's and MP-7's, the more the merrier. This is meant in all seriousness, you can't hijack a plane with 30-40 guns at your head.
-Penguin
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JunkyII
That's twice you have made reference to solders fighting abroad. They have little to do with this thread. You're missing the point. I'm talking about being overly freaked out for the sake of a few failed bombers. It's not, in my opinion, necessary to make life harder, inconvenienced or legislated against any more so than it already is.
If you insist on persuing the solder line then I'll remind you the knob bomber came from the Yemen. The shoe bomber was a Brit Pack and the 9/11 crew were Saudi. None have been Afghans or Iraqi. Solders fighting on our behalf have NOTHING to do with airport security. That's a different argument to mine altogether.
Penguin
What's with the Rambo mentality? You do realise what happens when an aircraft is suddenly depressurized right?
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JunkyII
That's twice you have made reference to solders fighting abroad. They have little to do with this thread. You're missing the point. I'm talking about being overly freaked out for the sake of a few failed bombers. It's not, in my opinion, necessary to make life harder, inconvenienced or legislated against any more so than it already is.
If you insist on persuing the solder line then I'll remind you the knob bomber came from the Yemen. The shoe bomber was a Brit Pack and the 9/11 crew were Saudi. None have been Afghans or Iraqi. Solders fighting on our behalf have NOTHING to do with airport security. That's a different argument to mine altogether.
Penguin
What's with the Rambo mentality? You do realise what happens when an aircraft is suddenly depressurized right?
Would you not agree that having the soldiers there prevent attacks against our homes? I think its a valid point when you talk about terrorists....I mean it is called The War on Terrorism
Penguin,
The ROK is definately ok at handling the North by themselves, by 2012 we are to be moving out of the northern areas and will be used as a support option for the ROK.
As all the Generals over here say......The ROK/US alliance is stronger then ever
:salute
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Sorry Stoney but right here is the paranoia that I'm on about..."Every few months".
Just because things don't make the paper, it doesn't mean they aren't happening. But, every new attempt is aimed at exploiting some perceived weakness. I agree that the shoe-bomber and this latest knucklehead both appear to be clowns of the terrorist world. However, the real perps are extremely patient and persistent people. They tried to blow up the WTC once and failed, but came back 7 years later and achieved a success beyond their expectations. 9/11 emboldened them, inspired these wanna-bes like the Shoe Bomber, et al, but they will be back. We made the airports and airplanes hard targets. They moved on to trains (twice) and buses. We make the trains and buses hard targets, they'll move on to the next thing we haven't thought of. Until they're either all dead, or lose their zealousness, we're stuck with this crap forever.
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Crew members should be given Kriss Super-V's and MP-7's, the more the merrier. This is meant in all seriousness, you can't hijack a plane with 30-40 guns at your head.
I'll take the train when this starts happening...
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It's about time we the people of the west take a factual look at things and throw down the perceived shackles of terrorism and get on with our lives.
Ok Lynx, so bottom line, what are you proposing?
I get the point that the threat of terrorism for those in the west in actuality very very slim.
Are you suggesting we need to get on with our lives and not worry about terrorism? From my perspective we are already doing that. Me, and no-one I know is even remotely worried about terrorism personally affecting them. We go to work, take kid to park, shop at mall, whatever.
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Ok Lynx, so bottom line, what are you proposing?
I get the point that the threat of terrorism for those in the west in actuality very very slim.
Are you suggesting we need to get on with our lives and not worry about terrorism? From my perspective we are already doing that. Me, and no-one I know is even remotely worried about terrorism personally affecting them. We go to work, take kid to park, shop at mall, whatever.
With reference to airport security I think everything is already in hand. I'm saying the customers shouldn't be made to jump through more hoops than they already are. The protocols that are in place need honing is all. We don't really need millions to be spent on body X-ray machines, rubber gloves and lube.
Just because things don't make the paper, it doesn't mean they aren't happening. Which goes to prove my point about our present protocols working But, every new attempt is aimed at exploiting some perceived weakness. I agree that the shoe-bomber and this latest knucklehead both appear to be clowns of the terrorist world. However, the real perps are extremely patient and persistent people. They tried to blow up the WTC once and failed, but came back 7 years later and achieved a success beyond their expectations. 9/11 emboldened them, inspired these wanna-bes like the Shoe Bomber, et al, but they will be back. We made the airports and airplanes hard targets. They moved on to trains (twice) and buses. We make the trains and buses hard targets, they'll move on to the next thing we haven't thought of. Until they're either all dead, or lose their zealousness, we're stuck with this crap forever.
This isn't the day after 9/11. We're nearly 10 years beyond that and Al-freakin-Qaeda is nothing in comparison with which it once was. If I, as an intardnet geezer, can see that then why can't you, the rest of the world and the powers that be. I'm not saying we shouldn't be vigilant or stop them (terrorists) from regrouping or refinancing. I'm saying it's time for the authorities to stop pandering, knee jerk style, to every incident.
Until they're either all dead, or lose their zealousness, we're stuck with this crap forever.
Very true another thing to consider is if it ain't these guys it'll be another group. Excluding the IRA Uk has to deal with 53 groups and the USA 47.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_organizations
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Crew members should be given Kriss Super-V's and MP-7's, the more the merrier. This is meant in all seriousness, you can't hijack a plane with 30-40 guns at your head.
-Penguin
w00t!
Now they don't have to bring weapons on, they can just get them in flight!
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Penguin
What's with the Rambo mentality? You do realise what happens when an aircraft is suddenly depressurized right?
*ahem*
Check Mythbusters:
They did an experiment where they fired a bullet into the wall of a plane (pressurized as if it were at 35,000 feet or so), and it did not suck everything out.
Next, not everyone has the guts to kill a person, you're looking at maybe on or two people firing. Third, you would have to get through quite a few bullets before you actually would be looking at problem; note that the guns are all pistol caliber. If you want to go down to 9mm, that works too. The Glock 18 (full auto) and 17 (semi-auto) provide great firepower for the crew and passengers, respectively.
This is also why those masks drop down, to give you oxygen while the crew goes down to lower altitudes: how do you think that those bomber crews in WWII survived? Finally, anything that the passengers do to themselves is better than what the hijacker will do: either blow up the plane or fly it into something.
-Penguin
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M9s for the crew........
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The problem with guns on international flights is the same as guns on merchant vessels; most industrialized nations have long since disarmed their subjects. Oh... And I don't think everyone should be asigned weapons upon entry of the craft but I think CCW holders should be able to carry on planes. Just the fact that it would be well known that there are guns on board would make their use highly unlikely. An armed airplane is a polite airplane, to paraphrase...
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w00t!
Now they don't have to bring weapons on, they can just get them in flight!
Wrong again:
Nobody can win a one vs. hundred, even with unlimited ammo and no clips; realize that you are being drawn down on from every direction at once. That's why everybody gets one in their armrest, and the weapons are only released by the pilot when he sees a threat.
EDIT:The problem with guns on international flights is the same as guns on merchant vessels; most industrialized nations have long since disarmed their subjects. Oh... And I don't think everyone should be asigned weapons upon entry of the craft but I think CCW holders should be able to carry on planes. Just the fact that it would be well known that there are guns on board would make their use highly unlikely. An armed airplane is a polite airplane, to paraphrase...
Right, but the guns are locked until there is a threat.
-Penguin
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With reference to airport security I think everything is already in hand. I'm saying the customers shouldn't be made to jump through more hoops than they already are. The protocols that are in place need honing is all. We don't really need millions to be spent on body X-ray machines, rubber gloves and lube.
I agree with that to some degree. I think profiling like El Al does would be a good start. For example, I would personally expect to recieve more scrutiny than a grandma, being an able bodied man and in the age demographic of terrorists.
As far as the body scanners, I think they are a great idea and I'm all for it. Why not? The technology is there, and it's presence might very well thwart a would be underwear bomber.
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Penguin you think there might be a small chance of crossfire being a problem with 400ish armed, mostly untrained civilians blasting away in the confines of a 747 deck?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1MkjmbdHUM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1MkjmbdHUM)
1m:00s - 2m:00s ;)
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I'm saying it's time for the authorities to stop pandering, knee jerk style, to every incident.
I'll agree with you there--but let's face it, they're politicians and don't know how to do anything else. But, there is a daily, active threat out there. I think those stats you first posted try to downplay that. The bottom line is that given the opportunity, the real perps would kill you and I. They want to do that every day. We have to prevent them from having the opportunity. That takes vigilance.
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Penguin you think there might be a small chance of crossfire being a problem with 400ish armed, mostly untrained civilians blasting away in the confines of a 747 deck?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1MkjmbdHUM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1MkjmbdHUM)
1m:00s - 2m:00s ;)
Most people won't be gutsy enough to pull the trigger, and even if a few fall, their deaths won't be in vain. The killers would be dead, and battered and bloodied, the pilot would put the plane down as fast as he could.
-Penguin
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Wrong again:
Nobody can win a one vs. hundred, even with unlimited ammo and no clips; realize that you are being drawn down on from every direction at once. That's why everybody gets one in their armrest, and the weapons are only released by the pilot when he sees a threat.
EDIT:
Right, but the guns are locked until there is a threat.
-Penguin
I'm pretty old and have heard lots of things in my life, so this isn't the stupidest thing I have ever heard...but it comes close.
shamus
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Hoho, our favourite Penguin has yet to learn how to think things through before presenting his proposals and opinions. But he ain't bad for a young'un, the world would be less amusing without him.
:cool:
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M9s for the crew........
Unfortunately, the M9 is not a very good pistol. I've managed to break several of them. It won't be long before they get yanked and replaced with a better weapon. We've been testing Sigs, which will soon equip all of SOCOM, and will probably replace the M9 eventually.
My regards,
Widewing
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*ahem*
Check Mythbusters:
They did an experiment where they fired a bullet into the wall of a plane (pressurized as if it were at 35,000 feet or so), and it did not suck everything out.
-Penguin
All pressurized aircraft leak... For a 737, the typical cumulative leak area can be almost 6 square inches (which will vary depending upon condition and age of the airframe), far larger than a bullet hole, or even a dozen bullet holes. A single hole would go unnoticed relative to cabin pressure.
It's not the holes in the cabin that are of concern, but holes in important hardware, fuel tanks, etc.
My regards,
Widewing
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Unfortunately, the M9 is not a very good pistol. I've managed to break several of them. It won't be long before they get yanked and replaced with a better weapon. We've been testing Sigs, which will soon equip all of SOCOM, and will probably replace the M9 eventually.
My regards,
Widewing
bigger caliber hopefully? Even my wife carries a Glock .40 (She's gonna give that to me, as she wants the sub-compact Smith .45 :aok)
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Wrong again:
Nobody can win a one vs. hundred, even with unlimited ammo and no clips; realize that you are being drawn down on from every direction at once. That's why everybody gets one in their armrest, and the weapons are only released by the pilot when he sees a threat.
EDIT:
Right, but the guns are locked until there is a threat.
-Penguin
Are you for real?? that's the most absurd thing i have ever heard, OK so under your theory armrests have pistols that only the Pilot can unlock when theres a threat, how do you propose you keep the guns out of the terrorists hands once the Pilot unlocks the "secret armrest gunsafes" how does the pilot know how many bad guys there are? He could unlock an armrest where a bad guy is sitting . to many paranoid people, heck you can die slipping in the shower.
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I did read somewhere that they are going to put new emphasis on air marshals. Hopefully, the idiots who run that program won't make these 23 year old kids, with the military haircuts, wear coat-and-ties again, thus putting a large sign on them saying "HI! I'M AN AIR MARSHAL!" :noid
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I did read somewhere that they are going to put new emphasis on air marshals. Hopefully, the idiots who run that program won't make these 23 year old kids, with the military haircuts, wear coat-and-ties again, thus putting a large sign on them saying "HI! I'M AN AIR MARSHAL!" :noid
I'm fairly sure that won't happen ;)
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Too many years ago I worked alongside a quiet li'l man who married a Jewish lass in 1947 while he was serving as a Warrant Officer with the Royal Horse Artillery in what was then the British Mandate of Palestine. He remained a British citizen but whatever he'd got up to during the War of Independence following the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948 had made him a 'Friend of Israel', which opened up some unusual opportunities for him.
One of those opportunities was serving as an unpaid Air Marshal for El Al: he'd contact the airline whenever he wanted to fly abroad, they'd issue him with his instructions as he arrived early at the airport and he then joined the passengers as they boarded, sat down in a seat at the rear of the cabin and kept his eyes open for any trouble. He never carried a gun, relying on keen observation and his unarmed-combat skills to deal with anyone who might threaten the safety of the aircraft. He told me the worst bother he ever had to deal with was the odd drunk (there were other Israeli Marshals aboard with weapons who were briefed to combat anything more serious) and he'd travelled for free ever since the early days of the airline.
It took me a long time to gain his confidence before he told me about his cheap-travel arrangements - and many details of his history he never revealed to me at all. I wouldn't have written this if he hadn't died a few years ago.
Here's to all those who put the safety of others before their own.
:salute
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I'm not sure how to put this, but there is really no way to be sure what anybody's intentions are nor is there an easy systematical fix to the problem either. Systems are made to be broken an a terrorist for the most part will always be able to find a loop hole in it. All there is to do is for people to learn to think on there feet as they've been doing, accepting that it could happen to us and it will if we don't think fast at critical times.
-If you never learn to hit the curve ball that's all life will throw at you.
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Wrong again:
Nobody can win a one vs. hundred, even with unlimited ammo and no clips; realize that you are being drawn down on from every direction at once. That's why everybody gets one in their armrest, and the weapons are only released by the pilot when he sees a threat.
EDIT:
Right, but the guns are locked until there is a threat.
-Penguin
Worst idea ever. It was a hoot reading though. :rofl :rofl
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(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc288/lynx-AH/odds-of-airborne-terror2.jpg)
These figures show the measure of perspective is out of balance. So much drama for so few attention seekers. That's what amuses me. Maybe we should tackle road safety with the same vigour. It would serve us far better.
If that were the case, major companies would go bankrupt. Look at it this way...
Aviation has multi-billion dollar companies, executives, and lobbyists capable of "persuading" political figures that a lack of security measures will hurt their industry.
Ground transportation also has multi-billion dollar companies, executives, and lobbyists who "persuade" political figures that any more stringent requirements on drivers would hurt their industry due to a decrease in totaled cars.
I'm by no means saying it's accurate, simply food for thought. I totally agree that safer roads are a plus, I'm also quite aware that some people with a lot of influence will be mighty unhappy with the end results appearing in their paychecks.
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bigger caliber hopefully? Even my wife carries a Glock .40 (She's gonna give that to me, as she wants the sub-compact Smith .45 :aok)
Sig P229 in .40 S&W is what we have been testing. We and our partner are developing a shot counter that is installed in the grip. This testing requires thousands of rounds to be fired. We did similar testing on the Beretta 92/M9 and 96. Unlike the reliable Sig, the M9 and 96 routinely suffered both major and minor failures. Frames cracked, slide retaining pins failed, front sights fell off and in one case, the slide suffered a fracture.
My regards,
Widewing
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Sig P229 in .40 S&W is what we have been testing. We and our partner are developing a shot counter that is installed in the grip. This testing requires thousands of rounds to be fired. We did similar testing on the Beretta 92/M9 and 96. Unlike the reliable Sig, the M9 and 96 routinely suffered both major and minor failures. Frames cracked, slide retaining pins failed, front sights fell off and in one case, the slide suffered a fracture.
My regards,
Widewing
You forgot "stovepipes". :devil
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I'm pretty old and have heard lots of things in my life, so this isn't the stupidest thing I have ever heard...but it comes close.
shamus
Don't see what's wrong with the idea. Just calling it stupid doesn't make it that way.
Explain your reasoning. Anything that happens to the passengers when they react is better than the alternative: crashing it into a building.
-Penguin
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Don't see what's wrong with the idea. Just calling it stupid doesn't make it that way.
Explain your reasoning. Anything that happens to the passengers when they react is better than the alternative: crashing it into a building.
-Penguin
To be proficient enough with a weapon in such a confined and highly populated space requires a lot of training, and regular proficiency shooting that most common law-enforcement people don't even get. Add to that the type of split-second decision making that's involved, and you have a recipe for disaster with common citizens armed on a plane. Besides, if the hijackers knew they wouldn't be able to "fly" the plane once they took it over, they'd merely just try and blow it up from the get-go. Thus, removing the need for pistolas on the plane anyway.
Let the FAM's take care of it--they're the pros.
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My answer is one word: 9/11. If they did it once, they can (hopefully not) do it again.
Even if half of the people on board die, it beats the alternative: the plane exploding and killing those around it.
-Penguin