Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Badger on April 28, 2000, 10:00:00 AM
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I've been doing a lot of thinking about how HTC could add to the tank portion of AH, simple yet effective modifications to better represent the actually ground warfare of WWII, especially in Northern Europe. Again, to reiterate, it is not lost on me that the ground warfare element of AH will always be more arcade than simulation, for lack of a better expression. This primarily due to a deliberate focus in design and programming of being a flight sim first and foremost, with the ground portion filling a secondary role. Having said that, I do believe with some simply programming tricks, it could be moved closer to a true simulation. This would make it more attractable to some of the more hard core ground pounder types, thereby increasing revenue if they signed up, plus it would provide more competitive choices against environments such as WWII On-line.
To restate something from another post.
"This information comes from The Range and Angular Distribution of A.P. Hits
on Tanks, Ballistic Research Laboratories, Aberdeen Proving Ground MD,
December 1951 (Project TB3-1224B, Memorandum Report # 590)
A Map study was also included for Northern Europe and it concluded that the
average range that a tank could see another tank from any random point was
322 yards. The probability that a tank could see 1000 yards at any random
point in Northern Europe was less than .05 (less than 5%). It was
concluded that tank engagements in Europe was controlled by the terrain -
thus limiting tank engagement ranges."
This implies, plus most historical accounts as well as personal narration speaks of the "ambush" as the principle element that caused loss of allied vehicles as they advanced through very crowded European terrain, not being able to see great distances. Our severe graphics limitations (lack of solid modeled hills, hedgerows, trees and buildings), plus huge neon icons, completely eliminates any ability to ambush an incoming ground strike force with an equivalent ground component.
I've been mulling over a GREAT idea that "Pongo" proposed in the "Tank to tank engagement ranges" thread. Would it not be very simple for HTC to add a command or capability for a ground vehicle to "hide" by voluntarily turning OFF his icon. Of course, he would also not appear on radar at any range under these conditions. To the extreme, perhaps it would also make him completely invisible, but I'm not sure that's necessary to do immediately. Some beta testing would easily determine whether the first step was sufficient to create the ability for a vehicle, or group of vehicles to set up and execute an effective close range ambush. He could only turn his icon OFF when stopped. It would illuminate if he fired, perhaps combined with a muzzle flash, then immediately turn OFF again. This ambush mode would stay ON, but toggle permanently OFF (making him always visible) if the ambusher moved his vehicle, or was hit by enemy fire, which would be similar to damaged vehicle that would generate smoke.
This small change alone, would add some really exciting scenario capabilities and spice up an otherwise flat terrain long range slug it out situation that currently exists. It is the equivalent of the surprise "bounce" when done in HA type arenas with their short range icon views and no radar.
Feedback would be appreciated from everyone. Comment from anyone at HTC would also be valuable.
Regards,
Badger
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One of the main reasons I joined AH was because of the tanks. Personally, I am a realism freak. When I flew "brand X", I mainly flew in the Historical Arena. I know neon icons are probably never going to go away, but I do like the idea of the tank ambush icon.
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Great idea! Thumbs up!
One other thing that HT may like to include with this is to allow players to use the tanks as artillery, just as they were sometimes used during the war.
Introduce either a Recon Jeep, armed with a light machine gun and make it a quick bugger (but since its a jeep, even a burst from another jeep would kill it). Or give players the option of boarding a C-47 and parachuting over a hill so they can feed firing solutions to a tank(S).
If a group of panzers wanted to nail a field, they could do so from 10K away, with an artillery aid they could nail it from far far away.
Or, if its easier, just allow the player to leave the tank (aka, become a walking soldier) and have the player walk up the hill (which it would do faster than the panzer) and have a ZOOM option with rangefinder. That will allow the player to walk the tank commander up a hill to act as a fire director..he can switch to gunner position, fire, switch to commander, and watch where the shells fall..he can then adjust his aim that way.
Aw heck, just put in a howitzer....
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I always like you ideas Badger, and you taste in music , haha. There has been quite a few posts about making tank warfare more realistic and more fun, I hope that HTC really takes tank combat up a few notches. I am all for adding the capability to do some sort of tank ambushes. Maybe even add some more sounds to the tanks like the turret traversing, leaving destroyed tanks on the field for 20 minutes or so, having secondary explosions from ammo going off and maybe even putting a few depressions in that could hide a tank force from view or even a single tank. I think ground icons can be handled somewhat better, quite a few good ideas out there on it
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Cool idea, Badger! Thumbs up!
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leonid, Komandir
5 GIAP VVS RKKA (http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero)
"Our cause is just. The enemy will be crushed. Victory will be ours."
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I don't know how many of you have been flying along at 3k with the icons off by accident and then realised and turned them back on again to find that there are a whole swarm of Panzers below you? You just can't see then from the air. I don't think there should be a permanent hide button but I think that a "Go Stealth" button would be great! The only problem would be that if you went stealthy then no one would be able to see you and no combat would come from it. (If that makes since)I think what needs to be done first is to add some solid landscape (cities, town's ETC) then making it so that icon ranges for tanks where reduced to at least 3k, and so if we hide behind an object our icons can't be seen. I think that needs to be done before anything else. WW2OL have got cities and small towns. I think we should have them too (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
just my 2p's worth
(http://www.armtec.demon.co.uk/cbtown.jpg)