Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: The Grinch on January 14, 2010, 01:45:51 AM

Title: The final resting place of Tirpitz
Post by: The Grinch on January 14, 2010, 01:45:51 AM
if you follow this link http://www.bismarck-class.dk/tirpitz/miscellaneous/tirpitz_tromsoe_then_and_now/tirpitz_tromsoe_then_and_now.html
You can see photos of the resting place of Tirpitz. :salute 
Title: Re: The final resting place of Tirpitz
Post by: waystin2 on January 14, 2010, 10:09:29 AM
Very interesting.  Thanks for finding and sharing Grinch! :aok
Title: Re: The final resting place of Tirpitz
Post by: The Grinch on January 14, 2010, 10:23:07 AM
Very interesting.  Thanks for finding and sharing Grinch! :aok
Thx, I was hoping that someone find that interesting. :salute
Did you see the crates from the tall boys?   :t
Title: Re: The final resting place of Tirpitz
Post by: waystin2 on January 14, 2010, 10:26:46 AM
Thx, I was hoping that someone find that interesting. :salute
Did you see the crates from the tall boys?   :t


Unbelievable holes my friend.  Makes me want to up a Stuka tonight!  :devil
Title: Re: The final resting place of Tirpitz
Post by: Westy on January 14, 2010, 11:52:28 AM
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&source=hp&q=H%C3%A5k%C3%B8y,+norway&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=H%C3%A5k%C3%B8ya&ll=69.646939,18.809752&spn=0.005515,0.01929&t=h&z=16
Title: Re: The final resting place of Tirpitz
Post by: Simba on January 14, 2010, 12:04:50 PM
"Unbelievable holes my friend.  Makes me want to up a Stuka tonight!"

The Stuka is truly an amazing aircraft - but you'd have to fly a Lancaster to be able to carry a 12,000 lbs Tallboy. ;)

Back to warships' last resting places: my father flew in a RN Whirlwind helicopter over the remains of the Graf Spee in 1957 and took pics of the buoys that marked the site. Does anyone know whether the first German capital ship to be sunk in WW2 is still there on the bottom of Montevideo harbour?

 :cool:

Title: Re: The final resting place of Tirpitz
Post by: Westy on January 14, 2010, 01:13:34 PM
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=montevideo++Admiral+Graf+Spee&sll=-35.003566,-56.03302&sspn=0.415646,0.617294&gl=us&ie=UTF8&hq=Admiral+Graf+Spee&hnear=Montevideo,+Uruguay&ll=-34.971637,-56.301134&spn=0.003248,0.004823&t=h&z=18


"over the years the wreck subsided into the muddy bottom and today only the tip of the mast remains above the surface...

"In February 2004 a salvage team began work raising the wreck of the Admiral Graf Spee. The operation is in part being funded
by the government of Uruguay, in part by the private sector, as the wreck is now a hazard to navigation. The first major section,
a 27-ton gunnery range-finding telemeter, was raised on 25 February 2004.[25] The anchor and rangefinder are currently
displayed in the port area of Montevideo. It is expected to take several years to raise the entire wreck. Film director James
Cameron is filming the salvage operation. After it has been raised, it is planned that the ship will be restored and put on display
at the National Marine Museum in the Buceo neighborhood of Montevideo.
 On 10 February 2006, the 2 metres (6.6 ft) eagle figurehead of the Admiral Graf Spee was removed from the stern of the ship
and recovered.[26] Due to a presidential decree, all salvage operations in Uruguayan waters, including Graf Spee's, stopped in
2009"
Title: Re: The final resting place of Tirpitz
Post by: waystin2 on January 14, 2010, 02:59:15 PM
"Unbelievable holes my friend.  Makes me want to up a Stuka tonight!"

The Stuka is truly an amazing aircraft - but you'd have to fly a Lancaster to be able to carry a 12,000 lbs Tallboy. ;)


CC that.  Since we do not have the Tallboy, the Stuka's MOAB was my first thought.  Big holes my friend, big holes!
Title: Re: The final resting place of Tirpitz
Post by: Karnak on January 14, 2010, 03:21:55 PM
CC that.  Since we do not have the Tallboy, the Stuka's MOAB was my first thought.  Big holes my friend, big holes!
Lancaster's 4,000lb 'cookie' is the biggest bomb in AH, being slightly larger than the 1800kg bomb the Stuka can carry.
Title: Re: The final resting place of Tirpitz
Post by: waystin2 on January 14, 2010, 03:48:04 PM
Lancaster's 4,000lb 'cookie' is the biggest bomb in AH, being slightly larger than the 1800kg bomb the Stuka can carry.

UGH I am terrible in one plane.  A formation of 3, no way...  Stuka will remain my girl! :rofl
Title: Re: The final resting place of Tirpitz
Post by: Krusty on January 14, 2010, 04:12:31 PM
Interestingly enough, and related to this, I just watched a documentary on finding the resting place of the Hood and the Bismark the other night, on Universal HD channel (UHD on my Comcast package). I was absolutely shocked how deep the Bis went, something like 15,000 feet down.
Title: Re: The final resting place of Tirpitz
Post by: Ruler2 on January 14, 2010, 04:42:40 PM
Interestingly enough, and related to this, I just watched a documentary on finding the resting place of the Hood and the Bismark the other night, on Universal HD channel (UHD on my Comcast package). I was absolutely shocked how deep the Bis went, something like 15,000 feet down.

Why do the coolest ships always go down too far for us to recover....  :cry
Title: Re: The final resting place of Tirpitz
Post by: Krusty on January 14, 2010, 04:47:00 PM
They'll never recover a sunk ship, not unless it's immediately after it goes down in shallow water. Most of the others are technically war graves, and won't be disturbed other than subs/ROVs and documenting their resting places.
Title: Re: The final resting place of Tirpitz
Post by: Karnak on January 14, 2010, 04:47:14 PM
Why do the coolest ships always go down too far for us to recover....  :cry
War graves are not "recovered".
Title: Re: The final resting place of Tirpitz
Post by: Simba on January 14, 2010, 06:05:30 PM
Thanks, Westy.

Hoho, Graf Spee was always a hazard to navigation - both when afloat and after being scuttled.

 :cool:
Title: Re: The final resting place of Tirpitz
Post by: Bodhi on January 14, 2010, 10:18:31 PM
War graves are not "recovered".

The Tirpitz was "recovered" in the form of salvage....
Title: Re: The final resting place of Tirpitz
Post by: Karnak on January 14, 2010, 10:30:27 PM
The Tirpitz was "recovered" in the form of salvage....
So were most of the BBs at Pearl.  But none of the salvaged ships where considered War Graves.  There was some talk of salvaging the Prince of Wales, but the British government blocked it saying she was a war grave.
Title: Re: The final resting place of Tirpitz
Post by: Bodhi on January 14, 2010, 10:36:33 PM
The definition of a "war grave" is not the subject of a decree by a nationality.  For this case, it is a place where men were lost in equipment never destined to fight again.
Title: Re: The final resting place of Tirpitz
Post by: Guppy35 on January 14, 2010, 11:39:20 PM
They'll never recover a sunk ship, not unless it's immediately after it goes down in shallow water. Most of the others are technically war graves, and won't be disturbed other than subs/ROVs and documenting their resting places.

I don't know that a blanket statement like that really works Krusty.  Most times they leave wrecks alone, but it isn't always the case.  The Hunley from the Civil War being a good example.  They recovered the remains of the crew in that one.  There was a U-Boat brought back up a few years back that's now in England.  Seems like the Mary Rose had remains on her still after all those years too.

I wish there would have been the desire and the money to recover and restore the Yorktown.  Talk about a time capsule.  I've got a number of histories of the Pearl Harbor battleships.  Really a shame they didn't preserve at least one.  The pictures of them being scrapped are tough to see.  Imagine the West Virginia in place of the Missouri at Pearl Harbor.  Talk about stepping back in time :)

Saratoga getting sunk at Bikini also is a hard one considering her place in the history of US Aircraft Carriers, or the scrapping of the Enterprise for that matter.

Title: Re: The final resting place of Tirpitz
Post by: Masherbrum on January 15, 2010, 08:53:20 AM
I read this as an Advance Reading Copy in the Winter of 2003.   An absolutely fascinating look into men who were without question, ahead of their time.   

http://www.amazon.com/Submarine-Warfare-Civil-Mark-Ragan/dp/0306811979 (http://www.amazon.com/Submarine-Warfare-Civil-Mark-Ragan/dp/0306811979)
 
As Dan stated, the H.L. Hunley was raised and the entire crew were found at their battle stations.   Not to mention the crew IIRC, were given a Full Military Burial w/ Honors somewhere around Charleston, S.C.   
Title: Re: The final resting place of Tirpitz
Post by: Krusty on January 15, 2010, 04:19:59 PM
Fair enough RE: Hunley, but I think that's the exception to the rule. It's "small enough" that it can be placed inside a museum somewhere. Full battlecruisers, on the other hand, carriers, battleships, cannot be displayed so easily.

I can think of only one other example, and that was a wooden sailing ship preserved in cold water fjords off of Finland or Sweden or something.

WW2 wrecks? Most folks treat them with a reverence (well deserved) that prohibits exploitation of the wreck.
Title: Re: The final resting place of Tirpitz
Post by: Reaper90 on January 16, 2010, 07:04:22 PM
UGH I am terrible in one plane.  A formation of 3, no way...  Stuka will remain my girl! :rofl

mmmmm... STUKA! I do love that thing for killing a CV. I just recently (couple of weeks ago, one night) got a wild hair and upped one, dropped on the CV that was pounding one of our fields that no friendly was really trying to defend, and somehow after upping from quite a ways away in order to climb up to about 15K (seemed like an eternity), we still had the base and the CV was still right there close off shore. Managed to zigzag through the puffy, and dove nearly vertical to about 2-3K then released the volkswagen I had strapped to the belly. CV dead. Ended up losing my oil to ack from one of the other ships, but got almost to the field before the engine died and ditched dead stick on the beach. Had a few beers there on the beach with a couple chicks who were out watching the lightshow, told them all the war stories 'bout how I was the one who caused that big bang and flash they had been amazed by. Towered out and got two more CV's that night (although I didn't make it tot he beach after either of those two  :frown: )
Title: Re: The final resting place of Tirpitz
Post by: Simba on January 16, 2010, 08:13:38 PM
"I wish there would have been the desire and the money to recover and restore the Yorktown.  Talk about a time capsule.  I've got a number of histories of the Pearl Harbor battleships.  Really a shame they didn't preserve at least one.  The pictures of them being scrapped are tough to see.  Imagine the West Virginia in place of the Missouri at Pearl Harbor.  Talk about stepping back in time

Saratoga getting sunk at Bikini also is a hard one considering her place in the history of US Aircraft Carriers, or the scrapping of the Enterprise for that matter."

As a great chief once said, "nothing lasts forever, not even the mountains." Those ships were made famous by the men who served aboard them, and those men and that fame is what's worth preserving in our memories.

 :salute
Title: Re: The final resting place of Tirpitz
Post by: Bodhi on January 16, 2010, 09:15:55 PM
WW2 wrecks? Most folks treat them with a reverence (well deserved) that prohibits exploitation of the wreck.

That was not the case until the mid eighties when the military finally started to defend them.  It is also limited to a few nations.  For example, the Russians allow disturbance of war graves for profit.  One only has to look at several recoveries of aircraft there in the last ten years to see that.