Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: batdog on June 21, 2001, 01:47:00 PM
-
Version: J
Length: 37' 10" ( 11.53M)
Height: 12' 10" ( 3.91M)
Wignspan: 52' 0" ( 15.85M)
Wingarea: 328.00 Sq Ft ( 30.47Sq M)
Empty Weight: 12380.0lbs (5614.00Kg)
Gross Weight: 19500.0lbs (8843.00Kg)
Max Weight: 20300.0lbs (9206.00Kg)
Propulsion
No. of Engines: 2
Powerplant: Allison V-1710-89/91
Horsepower 1425 each
Performance
Range: 350 miles ( 563.00 Km)
Cruise Speed: 250.00 mph ( 402.00 Km/H / 217.30 Kt)
Max Speed: 402.00 Mph ( 647.00 Km/H / 349.73 Kt)
Climb: 3076.00 Ft/min ( 937.52 M/min)
Ceiling: 40000.0 Ft (12191.0M)
Version: L
Length: 37' 10" ( 11.53M)
Height: 9' 10" ( 3.00M)
Wignspan: 52' 0" ( 15.85M)
Wingarea: 327.50 Sq Ft ( 30.42Sq M)
Empty Weight: 12800.0lbs (5804.00Kg)
Gross Weight: 20700.0lbs (9387.00Kg)
Max Weight: 21600.0lbs (9795.00Kg)
Propulsion
No. of Engines: 2
Powerplant: Allison V-1710-111/113
Horsepower 1475 each
Performance
Range: 450 miles ( 724.00 Km)
Cruise Speed: 290.00 mph ( 466.00 Km/H / 251.89 Kt)
Max Speed: 414.00 Mph ( 666.00 Km/H / 360.00 Kt)
Climb: 2857.00 Ft/min ( 870.77 M/min)
Ceiling: 44000.0 Ft (13411.0M)
P38 looks like more of a MA sort of plane maybe... more wing area and lighter... means more meanverable?
xBAT
Opps... wingarea aint that much better... still it IS lighter :) AND its GREEN!
[ 06-21-2001: Message edited by: batdog ]
-
Batdog,
Where di you get that data from? The climb rates seem a bit low.
Thanks
F4UDOA
-
http://home.worldonline.dk/~winthrop/p38.html (http://home.worldonline.dk/~winthrop/p38.html)
ROC might of been w/out WEP perhaps
[ 06-21-2001: Message edited by: batdog ]
-
Top speed for the J is too low. It should be 414 mph as well.
I believe that this was the same for the H as well, but perhaps not. All aircraft prior to J-10-LO (I think) were cleaner than those that followed.
-
Hey lighter w/same speed is good... verrrry good.
xBAT
-
Originally posted by ispar:
Top speed for the J is too low. It should be 414 mph as well.
I believe that this was the same for the H as well, but perhaps not. All aircraft prior to J-10-LO (I think) were cleaner than those that followed.
Depending upon the state of tune of the engines, and how well the cowlings fit, the P-38J (any sub-model) should manage between 421-426 mph in combat power, which is 1,600 hp per engine. If the prop governors have been rigged for 3,200 rpm (as most were after the factory reps trained the mechanics), the P-38L should push 440 mph in combat power, which is 1,725 hp per engine.
Due to the problem with engine failures, most P-38 pilots flying in the ETO, would seldom engage WEP over Germany for fear that an engine would fail. Even after the arrival of the P-38J-25-LO and the P-38L-1-LO, with their greatly improved reliability, pilots remained leary of combat power usage. Once bitten, twice cautious.
My regards,
Widewing
My regards
-
Originally posted by batdog:
Version: J
Climb: 3076.00 Ft/min ( 937.52 M/min)
Version: L
Climb: 2857.00 Ft/min ( 870.77 M/min)
Ceiling: 44000.0 Ft (13411.0M)
As tested by the USAAF in 1943, the P-38J-10-LO, flown at gross combat weight, rate of climb was recorded as follows using 60.8 in/hg @ 3,000 rpm:
Sea Level: 4,050 fpm.
Critical Alt (23,400 ft) 2,900 fpm.
Similar testing on the P-38L-1-LO, using 62.4 in/hg @ 3,200 rpm:
Sea Level: 4,170 fpm.
Critical Alt (28,700 ft) 2,750 fpm.
Of all USAAF fighters serving in WWII, the P-38L was the best climber by a substantial margin.
My regards,
Widewing
-
How widespread was the use of 3200rpm and 1725hp on the P-38L? Did it require any other modifications, or special fuel? I have seen vague refernces to 115/145 fuel being required, but all the information seems a bit sketchy.
I'd be very gratefull for any futher information.
-
Originally posted by Widewing:
Depending upon the state of tune of the engines, and how well the cowlings fit, the P-38J (any sub-model) should manage between 421-426 mph in combat power, which is 1,600 hp per engine. If the prop governors have been rigged for 3,200 rpm (as most were after the factory reps trained the mechanics), the P-38L should push 440 mph in combat power, which is 1,725 hp per engine.
Really? :eek: Not to question you Widewing, you are a fountain of knowledge, but I have never seen this data before. What is your source, if I may? Might be good reading.
-
Not to hijack this thread at all, but............if the P38's are set up to reflect the fact that the birds got a tweaking from their mechanics after the factory reps showed them how, then IMHO, the Jugs ought to get the tweaks commonly performed, like increased MAP to 72", paddle prop, etc..
I hope they both get whatever mods were actually done on a "common" basis, or however you want to term it.
People always talk about wanting "realism" in the sims, yet they balk at a plane being given tweaks, claiming it is unfair. What I consider unfair is ignoring the fact that in "RL", the vast majority of a plane type underwent mods as soon as they entered the combat zone they were assigned to, mods to bring them up to unit standards and make them survivable in combat. If ya want the so-called "realism", find out what the pilots actually flew, not just what the factory data says, model it that way, and see what happens. I know a lot would balk at the idea, but in RL, the Jug did not have a negative k/d ratio (it also did not fight other Allied planes, I know :D, but that is another topic for another time )......it was overwhelmingly positive, and a lot of it was due to the fact that they had uprated engines, etc., not factory stock machines like we have in AH.
[ 06-22-2001: Message edited by: eddiek ]
-
I wasnt trying to do anything other than post some interesting data and see what others had to say about it.
xBAT
P.S. So... would the STOCK J model be of any use in MA... perhaps turn better? You expert out there comment :)
[ 06-22-2001: Message edited by: batdog ]
-
Originally posted by ispar:
Really? :eek: Not to question you Widewing, you are a fountain of knowledge, but I have never seen this data before. What is your source, if I may? Might be good reading.
This data can be found in several locations. However, I suggest that you obtain a copy of Warren Bodie's P-38 book. It's being re-released in softcover, having been out of print for several years. Check with motorbooks.com for availablity. Warren and I proposed adding a proper index, and I wanted him to correct several minor mistakes, but Motorbooks wanted delivery before the summer.
So, the changes were never made. Nonetheless, Warren's book is the standard against which all other P-38 efforts are measured. Bodie was an Engineer on Johnson's "Skunk Works" staff.
If all else fails, you can obtain USAAF test data on microfilm from the National Archive and USAF history branch. Prices are reasonable, but you must be able to specify which roll of microfilm you wish to have duplicated.
My regards,
Widewing
[ 06-24-2001: Message edited by: Widewing ]
-
Originally posted by batdog:
I wasnt trying to do anything other than post some interesting data and see what others had to say about it.
You didn't do anything wrong, so there's no reason to apologize. There is a great deal of published data on the P-38, and much of it is incorrect, or taken out of context. Unless you are extremely well versed on the Lightning, you could not tell which is accurate, and which isn't. Your post allowed us to discuss the data, and everyone benefitted from that (I hope).
My regards,
Widewing
-
I'm going to order that book. Thanks Widewing.
xBAT
-
Darn it... Amazon is sold out...LOL.
I found an interesting link. It contains alot of goodies.
http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/P38.html (http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/P38.html)
xBAT
-
Originally posted by batdog:
Darn it... Amazon is sold out...LOL.
I found an interesting link. It contains alot of goodies.
xBAT
Amazon is sold out on the hardcover issue. they are taking orders for the softcover to be filled when the book is available ( any day now).
My regards,
Widewing
-
Cool beans. I ordered the paperback. Thanks :)
xBAT
[ 06-25-2001: Message edited by: batdog ]
-
I ordered "The P-38 Lightning" by warren bodie around november/december of 1999, it was also sold out/out of print, but I ordered it anyway, it came less than a month after I ordered it. I purchased it at amazon.com
-
How does "Fork-Tailed Devil" by Martin Caidin (1971) compare. Just finished reading it and I enjoyed the hell out of it. Found it at a used book store for a buck 25. I have had some of the best luck at the used book stores. Now if I can just find Thunderbolt!.........
StuB
Originally posted by Widewing:
This data can be found in several locations. However, I suggest that you obtain a copy of Warren Bodie's P-38 book. It's being re-released in softcover, having been out of print for several years. Check with motorbooks.com for availablity. Warren and I proposed adding a proper index, and I wanted him to correct several minor mistakes, but Motorbooks wanted delivery before the summer.
So, the changes were never made. Nonetheless, Warren's book is the standard against which all other P-38 efforts are measured. Bodie was an Engineer on Johnson's "Skunk Works" staff.
If all else fails, you can obtain USAAF test data on microfilm from the National Archive and USAF history branch. Prices are reasonable, but you must be able to specify which roll of microfilm you wish to have duplicated.
My regards,
Widewing
[ 06-24-2001: Message edited by: Widewing ]
-
I'm the proud owner of the last available hard bound book "P47:Thunderbolt...." from Mr Bodie himself. I bought it a month ago. I've been reading ands enjoying it a LOT.
Now I'm on a search to find the P-38 book - whihc I imagine is going to be a b&tch.
Westy
[ 06-27-2001: Message edited by: Westy MOL ]
-
westy!
Hey, I found Mr. Bodies book through amazon.com, used, in very good condition hardcover of course. Amazon did the search for me, gave me the link, and the gentlemen that owned it wanted 150 dollars for Warren Bodies book on the P-38. Needless to say I ordered the paperback edition, and Amazon is going to ship it when it becomes available.
Hajo
-
Originally posted by Westy MOL:
I'm the proud owner of the last available hard bound book "P47:Thunderbolt...." from Mr Bodie himself. I bought it a month ago. I've been reading ands enjoying it a LOT.
Now I'm on a search to find the P-38 book - whihc I imagine is going to be a b&tch.
Westy
[ 06-27-2001: Message edited by: Westy MOL ]
I found two copies on Alibris.com (http://www.alibris.com), with prices from $96 to $163. They also have the P-47 book for $59.50.
Use the link and do a search under "Warren Bodie".
By the way, Motorbooks.com (http://www.motorbooks.com) has a few of the P-47 books in stock at normal retail prices.
My regards,
Widewing
[ 06-28-2001: Message edited by: Widewing ]
-
wow, sorry to hear about the price of warren bodies book the P-38. I only paid $40 for it and it was out of print when I ordered it in december 99/ january 00. it took about a month to 6 weeks to come, but amazon looked for it for me and did all the foot work. I may have paid an extra 10-15 dollars for it because it was out of print and for shipping and handling. I was supprised to get it. I ordered several out of print books on the 38 from amazon.com and they all came. I do not remember paying any extra fees for them. infact I think I got free shipping because it took them a month to find them.
-
Originally posted by bolillo_loco:
wow, sorry to hear about the price of warren bodies book the P-38. I only paid $40 for it and it was out of print when I ordered it in december 99/ january 00. it took about a month to 6 weeks to come, but amazon looked for it for me and did all the foot work. I may have paid an extra 10-15 dollars for it because it was out of print and for shipping and handling. I was supprised to get it. I ordered several out of print books on the 38 from amazon.com and they all came. I do not remember paying any extra fees for them. infact I think I got free shipping because it took them a month to find them.
$40 ($39.95) was the original price, before the standard Amazon discount, which brought the book down to about $32.
The softcover reprint will retail for $29.95 before the discount. Same quality, less expensive paper cover.
Those of you who want this book had better place your orders now, because Warren has only printed 5,000 copies. Since Warren is just a few weeks short of his 78th birthday, there is no certainty that he will be in good health long enough to do another reprint.
My regards,
Widewing