Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Pongo on May 03, 2000, 08:22:00 AM
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Thanks hblair...
sorry for the delay everyone.
(http://heathblair.tripod.com/190.jpg)
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How did you get that ???? <confused look>
-Westy
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Alt-S how do you get them?
notice it looks like Saints sig......
[This message has been edited by Pongo (edited 05-03-2000).]
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I gave it to him so that he could see the paint job. And when I didn't have time to put out a better screen shot ( been busy with the zero )I said he could post this one so everyone else could see. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Nathan "NATEDOG" Mathieu
Art Director
HiTech Creations
-=HELLFIRE SQUAD=-
"Man's 2nd greatest thrill in life is FLYING. His 1st greatest thrill is LANDING!"
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coulda let it run for a while.....spoil sport.....
Thanks Nate it looks great...
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Sorry bout that! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I read Westy's post then responded, then I read your's and said oops!
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Nathan "NATEDOG" Mathieu
Art Director
HiTech Creations
-=HELLFIRE SQUAD=-
"Man's 2nd greatest thrill in life is FLYING. His 1st greatest thrill is LANDING!"
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<taps finger tips on desk>
So. This is anyway to treat a dweeb? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
The 190 looks VERY nice. I went and looked for Saints' signiature pic and I see what you mean Pongo. I have my Opera browser set for pictures disabled to speed topic load times.
-Westy
(adds Pongo to master baiter list)
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Looks nice! Not the shine kind of way that some planes but more deadly and ominous like Wulf should. That camo should blend to terrain pretty nicely.
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jochen
Geschwaderkommodore (on leave) Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthofen' (http://personal.inet.fi/cool/jan.nousiainen/JG2) (Warbirds)
JG 2 'Richthofen' (Aces High)
I want to believe! Fw 190F-8 / G-8 / D-9 to Aces High!
Thanks for the Fw 190A-5 HTC!
Ladysmith wants you forthwith to come to her relief
Burn your briefs you leave for France tonight
Carefully cut the straps of the booby-traps and set the captives free
But don't shoot 'til you see her big blue eyes
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(http://heathblair.tripod.com/190.jpg)
Oh my love!!! oh my passion!!! I SEE YOU!!! I CAN SEE YOU!!!! AHHHHHHH I CANT WAIT ANYMOREEEE!!!
(RAM Falls with a stupid smile on his face and a T shirt in wich you can read: "DEATH TO DWEEBFIRES!)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
ITS WONDERFUL!!! I'm In love (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)...sadly I'll let that beauty for the red-and-white-belly Dora 9 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Ram, out
Fw190D9? Ta152H1? The truth is out there
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://members.tripod.com/JG2/)
(http://nottosc.tripod.com/ram190.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 05-03-2000).]
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I like it.
I really really like it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
JMW
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Another fine delicious main course for the Spitfire. Yum! Yum!
AH is becoming a Spitfire feeding ground!
Ooooooopppppsss! I'm a member of JG2!
Mighty fine looking plane. We shall cause mass destruction amoungst the Dweebfire ranks!
Whew! Glad noone seen that! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Swager
I/JG2~Richthofen~
"Damn.....I can't believe I missed that shot!!!"
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/swager.jpg)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 05-04-2000).]
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RAM Stop trying to "mount" the airplane! That's what the sheep are for!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-04-2000).]
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BTW is this plane missing a Grünherz?
Sure looks like a bird of 1./JG 54 to me.
Nowotny?
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From nate:
I did the A5 flown by Leutnant Otto Kittel, Staffelkapitan of 2./JG54 'Grunherz' in Courtland (Latvia) Eastern Front, Spring 1944.
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jochen
Geschwaderkommodore (on leave) Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthofen' (http://personal.inet.fi/cool/jan.nousiainen/JG2) (Warbirds)
JG 2 'Richthofen' (Aces High)
I want to believe! Fw 190F-8 / G-8 / D-9 to Aces High!
Thanks for the Fw 190A-5 HTC!
Ladysmith wants you forthwith to come to her relief
Burn your briefs you leave for France tonight
Carefully cut the straps of the booby-traps and set the captives free
But don't shoot 'til you see her big blue eyes
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Being a former JG54 Grünherz member myself (EAW, handle Marvin) I really appreciate it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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StSanta
II/JG2
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First few days these beauties are out I'm gonna have a total blast. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Muahahaaaaaa!
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Cool!
Now I only wish they had done the plane in winter camo for the upcoming Stalingrad Terrain. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Funked:
By this time in the war JG54 had removed the Green Heart emblem from their a/c's, (they removed the allready sometime during 1943) in order to not distinguse their aircraft to the enemy.
Shooting down a "Grün Hertz" was something the VVS pilots put high on the achivment list.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Aha! StSanta (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) What happend to EAW JG54 btw?
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Nattulv
2.Lentueen Päällikkö
Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
"Olen vapaaehtoinen ruotsalainen lentäjä"
[This message has been edited by LLv34 Nattulv (edited 05-05-2000).]
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Nattulv - Did they also do away with the coat of arms for each of the Gruppen?
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Not the book at hand but if i recollect right, then, I and II Gr removed both typs of insignias for the above reason.
The pics of I and II/JG 54 a/c from late 43 and forward lacks this kind of insignia.
some might still have broken the regulations thou (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Yeah Nattulv, I was looking through my pictures of JG 54 planes and it looks like a lot of them had both the heart and the Gruppe marking painted over.
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beautifull aircraft (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
will it have mk 108 option?
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I dont believe they were ever armed with 108s
started with A6 i believe
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Pongo is right.
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There were some prototype A-5's fitted out with MK108 though! <split-s and runs> (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Why do you guys care about the Mk108 cannon?? Honest question. No troll, no flame or no insult. Just an honest question.
The reason I ask is that every time a cannon/lethality question comes up on this BBS, the Luftwaffe pilots all swear that the 30mm Mk108 are useless guns (usually in relation to the -1C).
According to what I read from you guys, they're not worth the weight, and no one (besides dweebs) actually make the effort to carry them, due to the degradation in aircraft performance.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 05-08-2000).]
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Verm, for one thing it seems to be useful for attacking armor, although the real Luftwaffe found it useless for this purpose.
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I would have thought the same, but go read the two "anti-1C" threads where they discuss how they ruin armor attacks.
The Luftwaffe guys in that thread say that the 30mmm sucks against tanks, never tried it myself.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Not sure how it works in the game but the Mk108's shell was good for downing bombers (and fighters if you could hit them...) but for anti-armor it have weak armor penetration capabilitys.
LW even tried out it's bigger "cousine" Mk103 (same caliber larger shell and gunseize, see HT's ww2 ammo pic)) but found it to make the FW190's so equipped to vunerable. And on top of that it still couldn't penetrate the T-34's armor.
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Nattulv
2.Lentueen Päällikkö
Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
"Olen vapaaehtoinen ruotsalainen lentäjä"
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No problem pongo. I had no idea when you asked me to post that pic it was the new 190. I knew it looked a little different. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I'm looking forward to this next version.
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Nattulv, JG54 is on "temporary leave" it seems, waiting for a new sim to come up. It seems they're not to keen on AH for some reason and at the moment JG54 has been converted into GGG (Greenhearts Gaming Group) playing most games, including Quake and Rogue Spear.
I hope I can gettum over here asap (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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StSanta
II/JG2
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The 30mm's suck for anything but buff hunting and panzer plonking IMHO (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
I can do without the MK108 option.
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StSanta
II/JG2
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Here is what will bring the Grünhertzjäger together again (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) http://www.dogfighter.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=IL-2+Sturmovik&number=6 (http://www.dogfighter.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=IL-2+Sturmovik&number=6)
Just in case you have missed it. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Nattulv
2.Lentueen Päällikkö
Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
"Olen vapaaehtoinen ruotsalainen lentäjä"
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MK 108 is the ONLY Luftwaffe weapon that can consistently kill tanks in AH. MG 151/20 can't, not to mention MG 131 or MG 17.
250kg can't do it, 500kg bomb can if it hits dead-on.
Mk 108 is great snapshot weapon in slow speed maneuvering. In fact, it is the king of scissors. At high speeds and G pulling on evading target it is useless. And yes, it downs buffs pretty nice, usually dewings them.
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Now few questions :
1. When was 190A5 introduced ?
2. How many A-5 were produced ?
3. What was its primary role ?
4. How long it stayed in service ?
5. What was its role in 1944 and 1945, compared to later 190s like A-8 ?
In AH we wait for it as it is a pure anti-fighter plane, while A-8 role is somewhat doubtful. Was it so that Luftwaffe kept using A-5 for anti-fighter work, while A-8 were dedicated buff hunters ?
It all boils to the simple question:
Is using 190A-5 in late 1944 and 1945 as an anti-fighter plane unhistorical ?
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<PUNT>
[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 05-09-2000).]
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Originally posted by Pongo:
notice it looks like Saints sig......
[This message has been edited by Pongo (edited 05-03-2000).]
This is the story behind the Pic I used for my siggy file : I find them here : http://www.milartgl.com/HTML/index2.html (http://www.milartgl.com/HTML/index2.html)
Bear Trap
by
Robert Bailey
In Robert Bailey's latest painting, titled Bear Trap, German field artillery has surprised an advancing Russian armored column near the town of Smolensk during October, 1943. Above the ground battle, Stukas from Schlachtgeschwader 2 (Oberst Hans Ulrich Rudel), escorted by Focke Wulf 190's of JG-51 (Horst Petzschler), pound the Russian armor with Cannon and bombs, effectively halting the advance of their foe.
As you see, it does not say WHAT version it is, unfortunately.... If someone has more data on that, I'd appreciate...
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Saw/Saintaw
=XO=II/JG2~Richthofen~
GMT T.O.D. SITE (http://www.wardogs.org/ah/)
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/saw190.gif)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
Don't shoot ! I am only an observer......
[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 05-09-2000).]
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Hristo
Well it had been out of production for a year by the summer of 44. The next version of the plane(A6) is primarily different in that it can have outer wing 151s instead of MGFFs. I dont think there would be any difference between a 2 cannon A5 and a 2 cannon A6..
It is certainly a contemporary of the Spit Ix,La5fn,P38L, Mc205,bf109g6, typhoon and the B26. Engagements with the 51D would have been rare. You still would have seen them in the air with A8s in service but not in the west I think.
You raise a good question. And I guess that the answer is if we are playing in dec 44 then the plane would be extremly rare. (or all gone and upgraded to later standard) But only because the germans were producing more planes than they could really use and why stay in a 2 year old airframe if a D9 is available?
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There were 723 A-5's built, starting November 1942, ending July 1943.
The latest picture I have of an A-5 in service is November 1943, right before the 8th AF onslaught that decimated the Jagdwaffe in the West.
The vast majority of Fw 190A were shot down, destroyed on the ground, captured, or just worn out. Luftwaffe loss rates were so high that there was no question of using A-5's in 1944 or 1945.
Some may have been rebuilt into F or G series but I have no solid information on that.
Technically, using an A-5 as a fighter in 1944-1945 is unhistorical, but I'm certain there were A-6, A-7, and A-8 without armor or ballast or whatever we are carrying in the Aces High A-8. I'm sure there were Fw 190A flying during this period that could match the performance of the A-5.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 05-09-2000).]
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So, I guess I will stay with A-8. Are you sure about the ballast, Funked ?
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1752 FW 190A-5's were built. This according to Rodeike Wrk nr research.
If you add up the numbers usually published for the FW190A subvariants you get a total less then 5000 aircraft......
Here is the numbers he gives
Usual (Rodeike)
A0+v= 45 (45)
A1= 102 (102)
A2= 426 *
A3= 425 *
A4= 806 (974)
A5= 723 (1752)
A6= 569 (1192)
A7= 80 (701)
A8= 1334 (6655)
A9= ?? (910)
D9= 674 (1805)
* A2 and A3 production of the A2 A3 was about 960 (the production of the two types was intermixed)
A-5 rolled of the production lines at the end of 1942 and saw usage into 1944. Eastern Front units probebly keept their early marks longer generally then their western front breathern.
The one depicted in AH is from mid 44 and from Eastern Front.....
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Nattulv
2.Lentueen Päällikkö
Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
[This message has been edited by LLv34 Nattulv (edited 05-09-2000).]
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No I'm not sure Hristo. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I'm suspicious of the weight. I'm wondering if it has the weight of a Sturmbock or if it has the weight of the MW 50 system. It certainly has the weight of the aft fuselage tank which was used for MW 50 or fuel.
Also some A-8 had MW 50 which certainly would boost performance at low levels. I'm not sure if the fabled 2100 hp is a real number, but RAE reported 1970 hp for an A-4 that didn't even have MW 50!
So with the uncertainty in the weight and the uncertainty in the power output, I think it's likely there were some A-8 flying around towards the end of the war that could outperform the one we have.
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Nattulv makes a good point - A-5 probably lasted longer in the East than in the West.
For instance JG 5 "Eismeer" was operating A-3 as late as the summer of 1943. They were in a fairly quiet area, which meant they had a low priority for new equipment, and they didn't lose planes as rapidly.
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Funked: There was more then one front for the LW you know....... The one in the East of Europe..... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) lol (couldn't resist (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) )
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lol
Funked you posted while I was writing.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Peace (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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One other example of late usage of early marks of FW190A is 15(span)/JG 51 during the Battle of Kursk. They had a mix of A-2's and A-3's
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Hristo I must retract my statements. I have just received a copy of the Fw 190A-8 manual, which includes flight test data from the factory.
The performance is so close to the AH Fw 190A-8 that I must conclude Pyro used this source.
The manual makes no mention of MW 50. Only of a boost override system which allows an increase of boost from 1.42 ata to 1.58 ata (low blower) or 1.65 ata (high blower). Use of the system was limited by oil temperature, and 10 minutes was the maximum allowed duration.
Climb and speed performance using the boost override are almost precisely what I have observed in AH. The aircraft used to generate the charts in the manual was an A-8 with full internal fuel (including aft fuselage tank), 4 x MG 151/20, 2 x MG 131, and without ETC 501 bomb rack. Takeoff weight was 9481 lb. The aircraft had external surfaces "Filled and polished".
There is also mention of GM1, with speed and climb data provided for flight over 8 km altitude. The performance gains in this regime are significant, so this might be a good thing to ask Pyro to implement.
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Funked were did u get that little gem from? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Was it from LUFTFAHRT-ARCHIV HAFNER in Germany?
I would very much like to know the place to get such a book.
This hobby of mine is turning "serious". (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) lol
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by LLv34 Nattulv (edited 05-09-2000).]
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Thanks Funked,
I don’t find our A-8 all that bad, even though it is burdened with bomber interception duty. Who knows where would A series end if they were developed as pure superiority fighters instead.
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Thanks for sharing that Funked...
Its good to find out that our FW is based on the best numbers available.