Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: SgtPappy on January 23, 2010, 03:53:06 PM

Title: Suppose the Mosquito was fixed...
Post by: SgtPappy on January 23, 2010, 03:53:06 PM
that is, suppose its exhaust baffles were removed. How much more competitive would it be in the MA? Would it be as tough to fight as a good P-38 pilot?

I tried to find one of the 'Fix the Mossie!!!111!!1!' threads but I couldn't find the exact one which I wanted to find. I distinctly remember Karnak talking about how much extra performance the Ol' Mark VI would gain in climb, speed etc. if those big performance dampers were removed.
Title: Re: Suppose the Mosquito was fixed...
Post by: JunkyII on January 23, 2010, 03:59:30 PM
I dont know if it was "fixed", seems pretty good to me...you just got to kill the guy within 5 seconds while you have E :D
Title: Re: Suppose the Mosquito was fixed...
Post by: SgtPappy on January 23, 2010, 04:34:44 PM
Oh I know it's been changed for the better, but it's still got exhaust shrouds which apparently kill more performance than I thought. If those were removed, how much more would people fly it and would it be a dangerous foe in:

1) duels?
2) against Axis planes?
3) against Allied planes?
4) in an MA furball?
Title: Re: Suppose the Mosquito was fixed...
Post by: Raptor on January 23, 2010, 05:22:07 PM
What would be more potent is a true fighter version of the Mossie
Title: Re: Suppose the Mosquito was fixed...
Post by: BnZs on January 23, 2010, 05:31:23 PM
that is, suppose its exhaust baffles were removed. How much more competitive would it be in the MA? Would it be as tough to fight as a good P-38 pilot?

I tried to find one of the 'Fix the Mossie!!!111!!1!' threads but I couldn't find the exact one which I wanted to find. I distinctly remember Karnak talking about how much extra performance the Ol' Mark VI would gain in climb, speed etc. if those big performance dampers were removed.

That fix would improve the top speed some. All other attributes would presumably remain the same.
Title: Re: Suppose the Mosquito was fixed...
Post by: SmokinLoon on January 23, 2010, 09:16:48 PM
The biggest attribute the AH Mossie would gain is speed.  It would gain 5 to 15 mph depending on the altitude.  At 15k, it would (should) break 383mph.  I cant get AH's current Mossie to break 369mph in level flight at 15k regardless of weight (15k is its best alt for speed, 8500ft is 2nd best).

I've fired all the ammo, taken no ord, and burned the tanks to just a few gallons and 369mph is max.  Did you know the AH Mossie will fly the same speed with or without the internal bay loaded w ord?  Oh, and regardless if the ammo bins have been fired empty or not?  I'll go dig up the differences in weight and post them... gimme a few.  brb....    :aok  

EDIT:  A Mossie w 25% fuel, 2/500lb bombs in the bay, and full ammo weighs appx 18,913 lbs.
         A Mossie w 25% fuel, no ord in the bays, and no ammo weighs appx 17,291lbs. 
          Both top out at 15k feet at 369mph.

 
        That is over 1600lbs difference.  I'm not an aeronautical engineer or physicist, but that makes a fella go "hmmmm". 
Title: Re: Suppose the Mosquito was fixed...
Post by: Scherf on January 23, 2010, 09:28:24 PM
I posted a "likely" speed curve sometime back, but Telstra ate my homework (ptui! May Sol Trujillo rot on the 9th plane of hell.)

I still have a copy of the original if someone's willing to host it.

Also note we appear to have the FB.VI with Merlin 23s. With the Merlin 25, more power would be available low-down, and the climb rate (certainly the initial climb) would be higher - should be 2,850 ft/min with full fuel and 4x500 lb-ers.

I think Karnak once listed the planes which the Mossie would outstrip at WEP in a straight line with ejector exhausts. IIRC it's quicker than the 38L at a limited altitude band currently, not sure it will ever go vert like the 38 tho.

(Scherf gets into position above and behind B-38): "Wait for it, wait for it, here it comes ... Fire!"

(As always, shot goes hopelessly wide, B-38 leaps ever-skyward like Tinkerbelle. Scherf tightens parachute webbing and jettisons hatch, in preparation for the inevitable.)
Title: Re: Suppose the Mosquito was fixed...
Post by: Karnak on January 24, 2010, 12:20:40 AM
This was my estimate.  "Mosquito" is the one we have in game now, on WEP.  "Mosquito w/ejector stacks" is the undampered one at WEP.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3538/3664362438_6d2a44bcb3.jpg?v=0)


I also recall Scherf saying he thought the climb rate was a bit low as well.
Title: Re: Suppose the Mosquito was fixed...
Post by: Bruv119 on January 24, 2010, 12:37:48 AM
The Mossie in AH surely needs to be Pimped.
Title: Re: Suppose the Mosquito was fixed...
Post by: SgtPappy on January 24, 2010, 01:44:06 AM
Thanks for the information everyone. Makes me feel great to be Canadian, what with almost 1/3rd of Mossie production being here.

350 mph @ SL outdrags the Spitfire VIII. Sounds like a good deal. Scherf states that the Merlin 25 version was better. I never knew the FB.VI had the 25. I thought they were fitted with 21/23's. What's the performance of a Mk.VI with those engines, and how many VI's were fitted with the 25?
Title: Re: Suppose the Mosquito was fixed...
Post by: Scherf on January 24, 2010, 03:55:10 AM
The M25 was the standard for FB.VIs - Sharp & Bowyer's book "Mosquito" (teh bible, o yea o yea) states specifically that 418 Squadron, the very first unit to be equipped with the FB.VI, received aricraft with Merlin 25s for improved low-down performance.

There's assorted bits and bobs over at the AH Wiki (first sticky link in this forum) and at Mike Williams' site.
Title: Re: Suppose the Mosquito was fixed...
Post by: thrila on January 24, 2010, 05:44:27 AM
mossie ownz yoo! :)
Title: Re: Suppose the Mosquito was fixed...
Post by: Scherf on January 24, 2010, 05:52:13 AM
tha-rillllllll-llaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!

What news mate, what news?
Title: Re: Suppose the Mosquito was fixed...
Post by: thrila on January 24, 2010, 06:21:35 AM
helloooooooooo! :)

i'm currently onboard the Ark Royal to learn how each of the ship's departments are run.  I will even get to see some harriers at some point, i'll definately make an attempt to get some footage + photos of them.  Unfortunately I have little time to play AH for the time being
Title: Re: Suppose the Mosquito was fixed...
Post by: Bruv119 on January 24, 2010, 06:31:04 AM
helloooooooooo! :)

i'm currently onboard the Ark Royal to learn how each of the ship's departments are run.  I will even get to see some harriers at some point, i'll definately make an attempt to get some footage + photos of them.  Unfortunately I have little time to play AH for the time being

if you get off the ship beware the Portsmouth women they can be rough and tough.  Stay clear....
Title: Re: Suppose the Mosquito was fixed...
Post by: Boozeman on January 24, 2010, 08:50:19 AM
So, a Mossie with Merlin 25s and ejector stacks = close to 360 mph on the deck? 
Title: Re: Suppose the Mosquito was fixed...
Post by: Karnak on January 24, 2010, 12:35:00 PM
So, a Mossie with Merlin 25s and ejector stacks = close to 360 mph on the deck?  
Probably in the 350-353mph range.  That is faster than the P-38s, P-47D-40, Ki-84, Spitfire Mk XVI, Bf109G-2 and so on.

The Mossie in AH does have Merlin 25s so far as I can tell, they are just dampered.  If they were Merlin 23s I don't think it would be breaking 325mph on the deck.   I also don't think the instruments match the engines, I think the instruments may very well be for Merlin 21s or Merlin 23s.
Title: Re: Suppose the Mosquito was fixed...
Post by: SgtPappy on January 24, 2010, 01:39:04 PM
As soon as Karnak posted tha graph, I took a quick look at Mike Williams' pages of the Mossie.

The last test done on the 20th of September, 1943. http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mosquito/hj679-dh.pdf (http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mosquito/hj679-dh.pdf) The second test seems to perfectly agree with Karnak's graph, about 380 - 384 mph at some 12 - 13.5K foot high.

The Merlin 21's on the other hand hit a similar speed but at 21,600 foot, while the SL top speed is somewhere around 320 mph. So let's get those exhaust shrouds off already.
Title: Re: Suppose the Mosquito was fixed...
Post by: Boozeman on January 24, 2010, 01:42:08 PM
Probably in the 350-353mph range. 

I'd be cool with that as well.  :D
Title: Re: Suppose the Mosquito was fixed...
Post by: Scherf on January 25, 2010, 01:07:52 AM
helloooooooooo! :)

i'm currently onboard the Ark Royal to learn how each of the ship's departments are run.  I will even get to see some harriers at some point, i'll definately make an attempt to get some footage + photos of them.  Unfortunately I have little time to play AH for the time being

Posting from *aboard* Ark Royal?

Now, that's pretty cool, right there.

Best of luck with it all, thrila.
Title: Re: Suppose the Mosquito was fixed...
Post by: SgtPappy on January 27, 2010, 06:38:21 PM
Hey thrila, don't get yourself into too much trouble!

Karnak, I recently bought a small die-cast Mosquito. It's not 100% accurate, but I noticed a couple things about it. It's supposedly an FB.VI, it's got the guns to prove it. But the engine cowlings look different. If you search up Mosquito FB.VI, you get this: (http://hsfeatures.com/features04/images/mosquitofbviba_6.JPG)

Other Mossies (like my model) have this cowling:
(http://www.erikhazelhoff.com/images_files/Mosquito.jpg)

I'm not sure, but it seems like the Canadian produced Mossies have this cowling. I'm assuming only 2-stage supercharged Merlins would need this. Since the oil cooler, cabin heater and rads are in in the inner wings, the intercooler is where the old intake was and the new intake is now that hole under the prop.

In addition some of the Mossies I've seen have only 10 exhaust stubs per engine:
(http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/BARC/images/mosquito-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Suppose the Mosquito was fixed...
Post by: Karnak on January 27, 2010, 07:24:02 PM
The engines on the two stage Merlin powered Mossies project further out from the wing.  I believe that is because the engines needed more room to fit the larger superchargers.  You'll see that on the Mk IX, Mk XVI and Mk.30 for example.

As to the ejector stack count, single stage Merlin powered Mossies didn't have room on the inner exhaust ports to fit six stacks due to the position of the radiators.  In some cases you can see such Mossies with five ejectors on each side, the last two cylinders sharing an exhaust port, and in other cases you can find them with six ejector stacks on the outside and five on the inside.  It doesn't seem to matter that much and seems to have been done based on what was available.  Single stage Merlin powered Mossies would be the Mk IV, Mk VI, Mk XIII, Mk.26 and so on.
Title: Re: Suppose the Mosquito was fixed...
Post by: Simba on January 28, 2010, 08:02:49 AM
"if you get off the ship beware the Portsmouth women they can be rough and tough.  Stay clear...."

'Tis true, Bruv - but don't forget the other side o' Pompey Harbour, where

Nabob, son of Paybob, did journey forth to Gosport, in search of an all-night-in,
But on his way, he fell among bandits; not ordinary bandits but  . . .

 :rolleyes: