Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: hibbie2 on January 23, 2010, 04:12:20 PM
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General characteristics
Crew: 2–3 (pilot, radar operator, optional gunner)
Length: 49 ft 7 in (15.11 m)
Wingspan: 66 ft 0 in (20.12 m)
Height: 14 ft 8 in (4.47 m)
Wing area: 662.36 ft² (61.53 m²)
Empty weight: 23,450 lb (10,637 kg)
Loaded weight: 29,700 lb (13,471 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 36,200 lb (16,420 kg)
Powerplant: 2× Pratt & Whitney R-2800-65W Double Wasp radial engines, 2,250 hp (1,680 kW) each
Propellers: four-bladed Curtis Electric propeller, 1 per engine
Propeller diameter: 146 in (3.72 m)
Fuel capacity:
Internal: 640 gal (2,423 L) of AN-F-48 100/130-octane rating gasoline
External: Up to four 165 gal (625 L) or 310 gal (1,173 L) tanks under the wings
Performance
Maximum speed: 366 mph (318 kn, 589 km/h) at 20,000 ft (6,095 m)
Combat range: 610 mi (520 nmi, 982 km)
Ferry range: 1,900 mo (1,650 mi, 3,060 km) with four external fuel tanks
Service ceiling: 33,100 ft (10,600 m)
Rate of climb: 2,540 ft/min (12.9 m/s)
Wing loading: 45 lb/ft² (219 kg/m²)
Power/mass: 0.15 hp/lb (25 W/kg)
Time to altitude: 12 min to 20,000 ft (6,100 m) (1,667 fpm)
Armament
Guns:
4 × 20 mm (.79 in) Hispano M2 cannon in ventral fuselage, 200 rpg
4 × .50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns in remotely operated, full-traverse upper turret, 560 rpg
Bombs: for ground attack, four bombs of up to 1,600 lb (726 kg) each or six 5 in (127 mm) HVAR unguided rockets could be carried under the wings. Some aircraft could also carry one 1,000 lb (454 kg) bomb under the fuselage.
Avionics
SCR-720 (AI Mk.X) search radar
SCR-695 tail warning radar
I know it was a night fighter. However I still think it is a cool plane for the future.
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+1 and may be the first twin engine attack AC to be perk.
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+1 i just like the look of it :x
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+1
I think it would be a great addition. but more plane sets need to be added first. Planes like Ki-43, He-111, and so on......
I vote for He-111! :banana:
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I can just imagine this as a serious buff killer, if for nothing else the ability to fly level under a set of Lancs below the tail gunner's ability to aim, with that turret able to fire up into their belly. Mmmmmmmm
And 4 .50's and 4 20mm Hizookas firing straight ahead...
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I can just imagine this as a serious buff killer, if for nothing else the ability to fly level under a set of Lancs below the tail gunner's ability to aim, with that turret able to fire up into their belly. Mmmmmmmm
And 4 .50's and 4 20mm Hizookas firing straight ahead...
Or a serious ho'er........ :cry
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Or a serious ho'er........ :cry
And a lawn dart.
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+1000000 I fell in love with this plane the first time I seen on as a child.
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+1 and may be the first twin engine attack AC to be perk.
You'd be kidding yourself if you believe this. I'd also like to see where it ever flew in the attack role or in daylight for that matter.
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You'd be kidding yourself if you believe this. I'd also like to see where it ever flew in the attack role or in daylight for that matter.
There are many instance where the 61s attacked rail yards, and if you follow this link http://www.nightfighter.info/Chapter13.html, its the first hand accounts of a radio operator of a 61 crew.
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You'd be kidding yourself if you believe this. I'd also like to see where it ever flew in the attack role or in daylight for that matter.
Can confirm that they did, daylight raids rockets & bombs, napalm.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan_42.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan_43.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan_44.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan_45.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan_41.jpg)
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That reminds me Mr Raymond Duethman just sent me a picture of his P61 the other day. He is the Navigator & on the right they shot down a Betty & helped Greebo with the skin for the 418TH NFS B25h we should have very soon.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/securedownload.jpg)
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You'd be kidding yourself if you believe this. I'd also like to see where it ever flew in the attack role or in daylight for that matter.
may be not perked but a day time attacker i knew that. I believe they did some attack operations on V-1 / V-2 rocket sites too.
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NFS = Night Fighting Squadron? Maybe I'm missing something.
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+1000000 I fell in love with this plane the first time I seen on as a child.
<G>
how bout these :)
(http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/AAF-Night/img/AAF-Night-p26a.jpg)
Northrop P-61 Black Widows marked with invasion stripes soar over France 1944.
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I don't recall it being required that any aircraft to be added to AH had to fly in the daytime. Just saying though.
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<G>
how bout these :)
(http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/AAF-Night/img/AAF-Night-p26a.jpg)
Northrop P-61 Black Widows marked with invasion stripes soar over France 1944.
That would be the 71st FG, 9th Army air core. The only P-61 FG in the ET.
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A definite +1 for the P-61. :aok
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NFS = Night Fighting Squadron? Maybe I'm missing something.
No you got it.
In some respects the P61's were just too good at their job they cleared the night time skies,& just like today in any job environment if you do your job very well your superiors are going to find you something else to do. Hence day time attack rolls.
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In the case of the P-61, though, it was more a matter of daylight fighters did THEIR jobs too well, leaving very little left to operate at night. Those few aircraft that did were largely wiped out by earlier Allied nightfighters (particularly variants of the F4U and F6F) before the P-61s came online. There just weren't enough nighttime targets left for the P-61s to BEGIN with.
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In the case of the P-61, though, it was more a matter of daylight fighters did THEIR jobs too well, leaving very little left to operate at night. Those few aircraft that did were largely wiped out by earlier Allied nightfighters (particularly variants of the F4U and F6F) before the P-61s came online. There just weren't enough nighttime targets left for the P-61s to BEGIN with.
Germany really did not have a huge night time sqad, and most of them turn into day time to help out. Now, did the IJ have night time fighters?
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In the case of the P-61, though, it was more a matter of daylight fighters did THEIR jobs too well, leaving very little left to operate at night. Those few aircraft that did were largely wiped out by earlier Allied nightfighters (particularly variants of the F4U and F6F) before the P-61s came online. There just weren't enough nighttime targets left for the P-61s to BEGIN with.
This is what I was thinking as well.
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For me its the design standpoint on why I'd like to see this aircraft.
One of the first US aircrafts that used the electronic controled turrets (although there was a shortage of these parts since many were being fitted to the B-29), twin Pratt & Whitney R-2800-65W Double Wasp radial engines, 2,250 hp each, the at the time radical idea of using curved spoilers vs airlerons, add in the fact it served in all theathers of combat for the US.
(http://www.retroadsandgraphics.com/images/BlackWidow.jpg)
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This is what I was thinking as well.
Suggest you get this book it is an excellent read.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Image.jpg)
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Wish it (^) were more consistent. Hard to tell from the lists at the back whether a kill given as "10th April" is 9/10 April or 10/11 April, at what time of day, where, etc. That particular info is still a book waiting to be written, so far as I know.
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2 good reads
(http://www.historynet.com/wp-content/uploads/image/2008/aviationhistory/november2008aviationhistory/p61-black-widow.jpg)
http://www.historynet.com/bite-of-the-black-widow-northrops-p-61-night-fighter.htm (http://www.historynet.com/bite-of-the-black-widow-northrops-p-61-night-fighter.htm)
and
"Conquering the Night"
Army Air Forces Night Fighters at War
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/AAF-Night/img/AAF-Night-p26b.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/AAF-Night/index.html&usg=__dcqDwVm3kvKkyQa_Bv1LrbNHuMo=&h=462&w=640&sz=43&hl=en&start=19&um=1&tbnid=puOwlF0j_a63-M:&tbnh=99&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3DP-61%2Bdaylight%2Braid%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1 (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/AAF-Night/img/AAF-Night-p26b.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/AAF-Night/index.html&usg=__dcqDwVm3kvKkyQa_Bv1LrbNHuMo=&h=462&w=640&sz=43&hl=en&start=19&um=1&tbnid=puOwlF0j_a63-M:&tbnh=99&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3DP-61%2Bdaylight%2Braid%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1)
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That would be the 71st FG, 9th Army air core. The only P-61 FG in the ET.
414th Night Fighter Squadron, Twelfth Air Force. Received Black Widows in December 1944. Served in Algeria, Sardinia, Corsica, Italy, plus detachment to Belgium. Inactivated August 1947 and reformed as 319th All Weather Squadron.
415th Night Fighter Squadron, Twelfth Air Force. Received Black Widow in March 1945. Served in Italy, Corsica, France, Germany. Inactived September 1947.
416th Night Fighter Squadron, Twelfth Air Force. Received Black Widow in June 1945. Served in Italy, Corsica, France, Germany. Inactived November 1946 and redesignated 2nd Fighter Squadron (All Weather).
417th Night Fighter Squadron, Twelfth Air Force. Received Black Widow in April/May 1945. Served in Italy, Corsica, France, Germany. Inactived November 1946.
422nd Night Fighter Squadron, Ninth Air Force. Received Black Widow May 1944. Served in England, France, Belgium, Germany. Inactivated September 1945.
425th Night Fighter Squadron, Ninth Air Force. Served in England, France, and Germany. Inactivated August 1947.
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Can confirm that they did, daylight raids rockets & bombs, napalm.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan_42.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan_43.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan_44.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan_45.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Scan_41.jpg)
Most of the "intruder" missions flown by the P-61 and other night fighters took place at night, with very few taking place in daylight hours. The 3rd image you posted (the 414th in Italy) even states that they were preparing the bombs for a night intruder mission and not a day light raid. Those other images are probably the same, the crews getting the P-61s ready for night time intruder missions.
ack-ack
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"In early Aug 1944, the 422nd and 425th Night Fighter Squadrons were transferred to Maupertus, France. In the same month, they began engaging German aircraft, shooting down a Bf 110 and a Fw 190 shortly afterwards. In Dec 1944, P-61 night fighters of the two squadrons performed daylight ground attack missions against German supply lines during the Ardennes offensive that later came to be known as the Battle of the Bulge."
"To make the most of the situation, the US Army employed the P-61 as ground attack "night intruders" to affect enemy targets by use of the powerful cannon armament and excellent handling qualities. The Widow played an increasingly important ground attack role in that way and especially so during the pivotal Ardennes Offensive (the "Battle of the Bulge") which saw these aircraft flying in support of Allied forces nearly round-the-clock and attacking "targets of opportunity" such as locomotives and trucks as well as concentrations of German troops. The Widow proved a most-feared opponent for these hapless Germans on the ground and many (those who survived her wrath) lived with the memories of seeing this mighty black beast coming down out of the sky."
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would love to have this plane added,like a P38 on steroids but its probably never gonna be added (or maybe after WW1 planes!? :x )
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Most of the "intruder" missions flown by the P-61 and other night fighters took place at night, with very few taking place in daylight hours. The 3rd image you posted (the 414th in Italy) even states that they were preparing the bombs for a night intruder mission and not a day light raid. Those other images are probably the same, the crews getting the P-61s ready for night time intruder missions.
ack-ack
Read the book I posted back in this thread a lot more to it than my pics.
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Hey, the Lancaster was a night bomber, right? :D
Little more info:
Total Production was 941, followed by 35 slim photo-reconnaissance versions.
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Hey, the Lancaster was a night bomber, right? :D
Little more info:
Total Production was 941, followed by 35 slim photo-reconnaissance versions.
Yep, it played a major role and theri best heavy bomber i believe.
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Read the book I posted back in this thread a lot more to it than my pics.
I'm not discounting the fact that the P-61 and other night fighters were used in daytime intruder missions but those missions did not make up the majority of the intruder missions these planes flew. Most of the intruder missions they took part in were at night, to keep up pressure on enemy forces around the clock.
ack-ack
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Then there is really no debate between us then when it comes to majority's. :aok How ever there were squadrons that ended up doing nothing but day time operations in their respective theaters of the war towards the wars end. On a DVD I have on the Ninth airforce all in colour I might add it shows P47's & P61's returning from day time missions together.
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Either way I would be a nice aircraft to have in AH, not sure if how difficult it would be to code or design the spoilers on the wings verse the standard ailerons that we see on all other planes or the remote gun turrets. Plus I really have the urge to skin a black P-61 with the invasion stripes!
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If we ever do get the P-61, it's going to be the A or B model, don't think the C model saw any combat with the war in the Pacific ending before it could be deployed. The C model also gave the Blackwidow its distinctive black paint scheme since all came out of the factory with this paint scheme, the A and B models were usually olive drab.
ack-ack
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Always Bet on Black
"The first P-61A production models were fielded with an Army-required Olive Drab/Neutral Gray coloring scheme based on previous scientific testing of various color combinations. An initial recommendation by MIT researchers of "Jet Black" was rejected on the basis that it simply did not work as advertised, sending the researchers back to their caverns to find out why their theory had failed under the US Army's assertions. It was discovered that the Army had tested the paint on an airframe by simply painting over an existing camouflaged paint scheme and had not applied Jet Black as a fresh coat over bare metal. A review (and subsequent testing occurring in October of 1943) formulated the proper results and produced an aircraft that was nearly invisible to ground-based searchlights - thus clearing the good name of the MIT people. Though the "glossy but rough" Jet Black paint finish had won out, this mattered little to the early production P-61A models already delivered. Official "Jet Black" covered Widows did not make it out the factory door until February of 1944. Previous models may have had their original paint jobs simply covered over in the field with Jet Black but this hardly proved a right solution for the paint applied in this fashion had a nasty tendency to chip, scratch or wear through the regular abuse incurred by such aircraft."
"The P-61A-10-NO production block had a pair of water-injected R-2800-65 Double Wasps. This model was the first to carry the shiny-black paint job which was to be the trademark of the Black Widow. Previous production P-61As had conventional olive-drab paint jobs. 120 P-61A-10-NOs were built. 20 of these were modified prior to delivery by the addition of a pylon on the outer wing panels to carry either a pair of 265 gallon fuel tanks (later 310 gallon tanks were fitted) or a pair of 1600-pound bombs. These planes were redesignated P-61A-11."
"Factory instructions for the P-61 stated that all exposed interior surfaces of the pilot, gunner and navigator compartments were to be finished in Northrop Cockpit Green, another factory-specific variant of Interior Green. Instrument panels were to be finished in flat black. Interior surfaces visible from the outside carried the same finish as the outside of the aircraft.
Zinc Chromate Yellow was used as general finish of all unexposed interior surfaces of the P-61. Even the wheel wells were finished in this colour. Two exceptions were the inner surfaces of engine cowlings and the firewalls which were left unpainted."
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General characteristics
Crew: 2–3 (pilot, radar operator, optional gunner)
Length: 49 ft 7 in (15.11 m)
Wingspan: 66 ft 0 in (20.12 m)
Height: 14 ft 8 in (4.47 m)
Wing area: 662.36 ft² (61.53 m²)
Empty weight: 23,450 lb (10,637 kg)
Loaded weight: 29,700 lb (13,471 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 36,200 lb (16,420 kg)
Powerplant: 2× Pratt & Whitney R-2800-65W Double Wasp radial engines, 2,250 hp (1,680 kW) each
Propellers: four-bladed Curtis Electric propeller, 1 per engine
Propeller diameter: 146 in (3.72 m)
Fuel capacity:
Internal: 640 gal (2,423 L) of AN-F-48 100/130-octane rating gasoline
External: Up to four 165 gal (625 L) or 310 gal (1,173 L) tanks under the wings
Performance
Maximum speed: 366 mph (318 kn, 589 km/h) at 20,000 ft (6,095 m)
Combat range: 610 mi (520 nmi, 982 km)
Ferry range: 1,900 mo (1,650 mi, 3,060 km) with four external fuel tanks
Service ceiling: 33,100 ft (10,600 m)
Rate of climb: 2,540 ft/min (12.9 m/s)
Wing loading: 45 lb/ft² (219 kg/m²)
Power/mass: 0.15 hp/lb (25 W/kg)
Time to altitude: 12 min to 20,000 ft (6,100 m) (1,667 fpm)
Armament
Guns:
4 × 20 mm (.79 in) Hispano M2 cannon in ventral fuselage, 200 rpg
4 × .50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns in remotely operated, full-traverse upper turret, 560 rpg
Bombs: for ground attack, four bombs of up to 1,600 lb (726 kg) each or six 5 in (127 mm) HVAR unguided rockets could be carried under the wings. Some aircraft could also carry one 1,000 lb (454 kg) bomb under the fuselage.
Avionics
SCR-720 (AI Mk.X) search radar
SCR-695 tail warning radar
I know it was a night fighter. However I still think it is a cool plane for the future.
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS IVE BEEN BARKING UP THIS TREE FOR MONTHS!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANKYOU FOR THE INFOR :banana: :banana: :O :O :t :t :rock :rock
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Another very good read,
Night Fighter
A Memoir of the
China-Burma-India Theater
http://www.nightfighter.info/ (http://www.nightfighter.info/)
Chapter 13 excerpt:
"So, a mission was planned. Ab and I would fly toward Xinxiang following railroad tracks the last 75 miles for a daylight attack on the railroad marshalling yards. We would arrive at 4:30 p.m. in full daylight. It seemed like a good plan, and it was.
It felt strange taking off on a sunny late spring afternoon. With all that visibility we didn't need radar, and in about an hour we had visually picked up the railroad tracks. It was a pretty day, and a few minutes later, almost as though we had planned it, there was a locomotive pulling about ten freight cars. Moving into the attack, one of my functions was to observe the result of each strafing run. On the first pass the locomotive disintegrated into a cloud of steam and a jumble of parts -- confirmed as "destroyed." As we swept past the boxcars, soldiers came piling out, jumping into the ditches alongside the track.
On the second pass we concentrated on the troops, knocking them out of the one ditch, sending them scrambling into the other. On the third pass most of the troops were concentrated in the second ditch. This was where our fire was directed, but it wasn't all one-sided, as we were now taking hits from ground fire. So we swung up and away at the end of that third pass, and I looked back at the pandemonium. There were troops down, troops running, others firing at us. An officer was gesturing with a saber and a group even had a mortar banging away at us. It was "Apocalypse Now," and in the middle of it all was a soldier with his rifle, consciously or unconsciously aimed at me. His shot resulted in a jarring interruption of my observations. The Plexiglas canopy I was looking through exploded into a shower of splintery fragments. The bullet grazed my head, leaving a furrow. Stinging splinters of Plexiglas struck my face and head. My headset and mike were ripped off, and I was somehow spun around in my chair, full circle.
I took a moment to collect myself and found out that I wasn't badly hurt. When I untangled the headset and mike and had them plugged back in, Ab was calling me on the intercom. I told him that I had been hit, but it wasn't bad. I was shaken, but said okay to continuing the mission. We made one more pass at the troops, who were now bringing heavy fire to bear on us. We had gotten the locomotive and had inflicted heavy casualties on the Japanese troops. We were hit pretty good ourselves, I thought.
Upon reaching the marshalling yard in Xinxiang, we made one strafing pass aiming at the flak towers and some utility type buildings that might hold fuel or explosives. One of them did catch fire, but we found we were expected at the marshalling yard -- probably news from the train we hit. As a result, we encountered heavy and well-directed ground fire from both machine guns and small arms. We sustained many additional hits. Day fighters were restricted to just one pass at this marshalling yard. This made good sense to us, and we left.
The next day in our plane we counted 56 rifle bullet holes, and there were many more holes made by larger caliber weapons. That was a lot of patching to be done, and the Jing-Bow Joy-Ride was already war-weary. It was decided not to attempt repairs, but to "class 26" the aircraft. No longer useful, the plane would be cannibalized, using parts for other planes. I was awarded the Purple Heart for the wound I received."
:salute
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Hey, the Lancaster was a night bomber, right? :D
It was a bomber that flew at night.
wrongway