Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: jolly22 on January 25, 2010, 06:00:46 PM

Title: picking question
Post by: jolly22 on January 25, 2010, 06:00:46 PM
Ok, this may be a dumb question to some of you, but whats the difference between picking and clearing a squadies six. People PM saying nice pick and i feel bad, but i was clearing someones six....Any ideas?
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: whiteman on January 25, 2010, 06:01:45 PM
blow them off, their poor SA got them killed.
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: DaCoon on January 25, 2010, 06:03:07 PM
blow them off, their poor SA got them killed.


+1   :salute
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: BillyD on January 25, 2010, 06:06:32 PM
"picking" or "cherry picking" has many forms depending on who died

meaning A:  blatant interuption of a 1 V 1

meaning B:  some people cross " bouncing " with "picking" i.e. BNZ fighting, attacking a con from alt

meaning C:  shooting down Draggon in any form, from any position around the clock   :D

meaning D:  engaging and destroying an aircraft already engaged ( single or multiple bandits )

meaning E:  engaging and destroying a pilot with target fixation or bad SA


etc etc

was your squaddie yelling in your ear on squad vox or f12 range to help him?

if so: No pick, shot at keeping your sanity

if not: Pick    :aok




Title: Re: picking question
Post by: Shifty on January 25, 2010, 06:07:45 PM
People PM saying nice pick and i feel bad, but i was clearing someones six....Any ideas?

Ask yourself if you'd feel better letting your squaddie get killed and listening to him complain.
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: Spikes on January 25, 2010, 06:14:45 PM
meaning C:  shooting down Draggon in any form, from any position around the clock   :D


Oh thank you! That made my day!
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: waystin2 on January 25, 2010, 06:18:17 PM

meaning C:  shooting down Draggon in any form, from any position around the clock   :D


I don't know how the guy does it!  At the same time he is berating the guy who shot him, he also berating any friendly within 6k about not check sixing him. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: Lusche on January 25, 2010, 06:21:09 PM
meaning B:  some people cross " bouncing " with "picking" i.e. BNZ fighting, attacking a con from alt


Speaking of faulty definitions... the following happened recently:

Coming back from afk I spot a Pony on my six, closing in fast. No other planes around, we are alone in this remote sector. I'm barely able to evade, we do a few maneuvers, Pony hits the ground. Lucky me, survived and got a proxy.

The Pony driver's (a so called "vet player") "You sure know how to pick"  :confused:
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: Lusche on January 25, 2010, 06:23:13 PM
, he also berating any friendly within 6k about not check sixing him. :rolleyes:

I'm pretty sure many friendlies around actually don't have any "friendly" feelings towards him ;)
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: lyric1 on January 25, 2010, 06:24:15 PM

Speaking of faulty definitions... the following happened recently:

Coming back from afk I spot a Pony on my six, closing in fast. No other planes around, we are alone in this remote sector. I'm barely able to evade, we do a few maneuvers, Pony hits the ground. Lucky me, survided and got a proxy.

The Pony driver's (a so called "vet player") "You sure know how to pick"  :confused:
Well you picked him to die & he did. :aok
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: Spikes on January 25, 2010, 06:27:05 PM
I'm pretty sure many friendlies around actually don't have any "friendly" feelings towards him ;)
Heheh.

I shot his Spit 16 down in a Val and since he didn't have any other excuse he said he was hurt from Hoing (what a surprise) an A6M.
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: TW9 on January 25, 2010, 06:27:55 PM

Coming back from afk I spot a Pony on my six, closing in fast. No other planes around, we are alone in this remote sector. I'm barely able to evade, we do a few maneuvers, Pony hits the ground. Lucky me, survived and got a proxy.

The Pony driver's (a so called "vet player") "You sure know how to pick"  :confused:


lol now that's funny.



....so who was it... do tell :D  :noid
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: Babalonian on January 25, 2010, 06:38:13 PM
Ok, this may be a dumb question to some of you, but whats the difference between picking and clearing a squadies six. People PM saying nice pick and i feel bad, but i was clearing someones six....Any ideas?

By all means clear a friendlies six.  Consider it a "good job, you knocked me outa the sky before I even knew you were there" back pat.  As mentioned above, if anything your opponent's poor SA (situational awareness) and "tunnelvision" on your friendly in distress is the cause of the great distress and grief that fuels their need to vocally express it to you at their earliest convenience.



Speaking of faulty definitions... the following happened recently:

Coming back from afk I spot a Pony on my six, closing in fast. No other planes around, we are alone in this remote sector. I'm barely able to evade, we do a few maneuvers, Pony hits the ground. Lucky me, survived and got a proxy.

The Pony driver's (a so called "vet player") "You sure know how to pick"  :confused:

Last week, I got a new one, I spot a Yak while flying in my Dora at 10K-12, seemingly in an AFK climb and all by his lonesome.  I decide to come up behind and below him and close within 20-50 meters of his tail and just hover there on it for at least 30 seconds but more twords a full minute of playing with my food, just barely avoiding collision from punching the throttle accidently a little too hard.  Finally above 14K I back off to 100 meters and put a 50-cannon round burst into him, boom.  A few seconds later "nice pick".
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: Zazen13 on January 25, 2010, 07:03:53 PM
Ok, this may be a dumb question to some of you, but whats the difference between picking and clearing a squadies six. People PM saying nice pick and i feel bad, but i was clearing someones six....Any ideas?

It's the exact same thing. This is why picking is actually absolutely fundamental to air to air combat. Imagine air combat where you didn't ever have to worry about someone attacking you at inconvenient times...It would be stupid, boring and incredibly unrealistic. Mutual support in fighter combat is the connective tissue in virtually all fighter tactics dogma.
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: bustr on January 25, 2010, 08:06:58 PM
A devils advocate thought.

In the past there have been many threads not supportive of squads because of the force and farce multiplier effects by cohesive groups or squads. The action of one player calling for help from a second player is the nuclei of growing into all of the problems associated with our past mega squads. We are well aware HiTech enacted the ENY system and multiple arena's in response to a period of AH history where mega squads were running rampant in our only MA arena. And also organising multiple squads into a super country coalition force specifically to dominate all game play in the MA.

So today's picker to clear a friends tail may be tomorrows organiser of the next super country squadrons coalition force. I know some of us remember those joint squad ops nights from years gone by from the loosers side. An organised cloud of pickers in uber rides picking our best defensive efforts out of the sky's. Mega hoards shutting our fields down at the same time all over the map.

Naw....clearing a freinds six by picking is just being a good freind and squadmate..... :joystick:
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: grizz441 on January 25, 2010, 08:16:09 PM
Imagine air combat where you didn't ever have to worry about someone attacking you at inconvenient times

My deaths would be cut by 99.9999% of this were the case!   :P
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: kvuo75 on January 25, 2010, 08:28:00 PM
I am of the opinion picking is "clearing someone's 6" or "killing someone already engaged". it is NOT "you were higher/faster than me"

Picking sucks when it happens to me, but I will pick enemy any time possible..  :aok

therefore I dont find it a perjorative term.. 

Title: Re: picking question
Post by: stran on January 25, 2010, 08:56:49 PM
I am of the opinion picking is "clearing someone's 6" or "killing someone already engaged". it is NOT "you were higher/faster than me"

Picking sucks when it happens to me, but I will pick enemy any time possible..  :aok

therefore I dont find it a perjorative term.. 


i agree with what kvuo75 said, and with what ever perjorative means.
i want to add though that i don't like friendlies clearing my 12 after i've cornered an elusive opponent. it's not a problem if i just acquired a target, or in a furball, but when i had to work for it, and especially if the other friendly didn't have the speed to catch the opponent... it's damn annoying but there's nothing anyone can do to stop it.
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: dedalos on January 25, 2010, 09:14:53 PM
I love it when some one spells out SA for me. I wondering what that was. Ty

Title: Re: picking question
Post by: Bradman on January 25, 2010, 09:16:51 PM
i agree with what kvuo75 said, and with what ever perjorative means.
i want to add though that i don't like friendlies clearing my 12 after i've cornered an elusive opponent. it's not a problem if i just acquired a target, or in a furball, but when i had to work for it, and especially if the other friendly didn't have the speed to catch the opponent... it's damn annoying but there's nothing anyone can do to stop it.

pejorative means having a negative affect.
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: NoBaddy on January 26, 2010, 07:17:52 AM
Don't worry about it. Cherrypicking is an important part of the game...when you get picked...it's God's way of telling you that you are a dumbarse. :)


Nothing wrong with being a good picker (or vulcher, for that matter). :)
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: Masherbrum on January 26, 2010, 07:19:22 AM
Don't worry about it. Cherrypicking is an important part of the game...when you get picked...it's God's way of telling you that you are a dumbarse. :)


Nothing wrong with being a good picker (or vulcher, for that matter). :)

Baddy!!!!! :rock
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: BiPoLaR on January 26, 2010, 07:31:53 AM
A devils advocate thought.

In the past there have been many threads not supportive of squads because of the force and farce multiplier effects by cohesive groups or squads. The action of one player calling for help from a second player is the nuclei of growing into all of the problems associated with our past mega squads. We are well aware HiTech enacted the ENY system and multiple arena's in response to a period of AH history where mega squads were running rampant in our only MA arena. And also organizing multiple squads into a super country coalition force specifically to dominate all game play in the MA.

So today's picker to clear a friends tail may be tomorrows organizer of the next super country squadrons coalition force. I know some of us remember those joint squad ops nights from years gone by from the losers side. An organized cloud of pickers in uber rides picking our best defensive efforts out of the sky's. Mega hoards shutting our fields down at the same time all over the map.

Naw....clearing a friends six by picking is just being a good friend and squadmate..... :joystick:
I just had to do it. Was driving me moonbat.
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: Yenny on January 26, 2010, 07:33:09 AM
In a furball situation there's no such thing as pick, it's all for all and you're just clearing countrymen's 6. In a 1 vs 1 situation if your ally is not asking for help and you're just going in for the shot then maybe that's a pick.

But yea, I don't have any regret for shooting other people down using BnZ style in a furball. If you have poor SA and you get shot down, can't squeak about it xD. I get shot down in furball and 1 v 1 all the time because my SA wasn't good enough, and I just walk away saying damn I guess I didn't track that guy.
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: Reschke on January 26, 2010, 07:56:02 AM
Picking, Hoing, vulching; its all the same and all part of ending the fight faster. I am of the opinion that A) The one to the fight the fastest with the most will win....most of the time. If that involves all or part of the three items I say in the beginning then so be it. B) Nothing wrong with being in a position to clean your buddy's six from time to time and let the tard that was in tunnel vision get his butt handed to him. C) All of the previous end the fight faster for you or your group so you have more time to get more kills or die faster.

The end.
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: CAP1 on January 26, 2010, 08:03:49 AM
Ok, this may be a dumb question to some of you, but whats the difference between picking and clearing a squadies six. People PM saying nice pick and i feel bad, but i was clearing someones six....Any ideas?


you see a 1-1 below ya. you drop down, and clear your countrymans 12. he never asked for help.

 that';s a pick.

 now, if you and a squaddie are workin together, that's totally different.
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: CAP1 on January 26, 2010, 08:05:27 AM
"picking" or "cherry picking" has many forms depending on who died

meaning A:  blatant interuption of a 1 V 1

meaning B:  some people cross " bouncing " with "picking" i.e. BNZ fighting, attacking a con from alt

meaning C:  shooting down Draggon in any form, from any position around the clock   :D

meaning D:  engaging and destroying an aircraft already engaged ( single or multiple bandits )

meaning E:  engaging and destroying a pilot with target fixation or bad SA


etc etc

was your squaddie yelling in your ear on squad vox or f12 range to help him?

if so: No pick, shot at keeping your sanity

if not: Pick    :aok






but now, on  "B" ya need to be careful too.......quite a few people confuse bnz fighting with e-fighting.  :D
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: CAP1 on January 26, 2010, 08:06:45 AM
Ask yourself if you'd feel better letting your squaddie get killed and listening to him complain.

this is just me.......but i'd rather my squaddies respect my fight, and stay out.......unless i ask for help.

 thankfully, i'm in the friendliest, coolest and most fun squad in ah.  :aok
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: CAP1 on January 26, 2010, 08:09:10 AM

Speaking of faulty definitions... the following happened recently:

Coming back from afk I spot a Pony on my six, closing in fast. No other planes around, we are alone in this remote sector. I'm barely able to evade, we do a few maneuvers, Pony hits the ground. Lucky me, survived and got a proxy.

The Pony driver's (a so called "vet player") "You sure know how to pick"  :confused:

dude....i've had one of the "vets" run when he was lower than me, run when he was co-alt to me, and accuse me of running, as he himself was running........and it is one that i truly believe would kick my cartoon arse........but i think it's also one that's managed to forget that this is just a game.
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: dedalos on January 26, 2010, 08:29:18 AM

you see a 1-1 below ya. you drop down, and clear your countrymans 12. he never asked for help.

 that';s a pick.

 now, if you and a squaddie are workin together, that's totally different.

What he said. 

I'd just add that to me a pick comes with the pilot.  Meaning, there are people that that is all they ever do.  You can see them hide behind a couple of reds waiting for them to engage you and then they come in.  If I get killed buy one of them, I know it was a pick and I may say something.  Not because it was a pick, but because that is all they do.  These are seasoned vets and most of them will come here and tell us how good they are too.  If I get picked by player XYZ a few times, I don't care, my fault for not paying attention.  But when you get picked by the same guys over the years, you learn their pattens and you can actually ID them.

For example, if you get a message that says you have been killed by XHawk or SASSEN, you know it was a pick (Names changed to protect the Innocent) because it was planned that way.
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: Masherbrum on January 26, 2010, 08:33:12 AM

you see a 1-1 below ya. you drop down, and clear your countryman's 12. he never asked for help.

 that's a pick.

 now, if you and a squaddie are workin together, that's totally different.

Agree.   
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: Demetrious on January 26, 2010, 08:43:03 AM
"picking" or "cherry picking" has many forms depending on who died
meaning A:  blatant interuption of a 1 V 1

That's what the dueling arena is for.

AH's MA is- nominally- supposed to represent a combined-arms war, with strategic objectives and the main goal being to kill anything that moves in order to enable completion of those objectives. If people don't like getting picked, then they should bring some wingmen, use team tactics, and do it properly, like the real guys did.

If they just want a duel, there's the DA. If they want a furball, those are easy to find. Sheesh.

This emote has nothing to do with the post but I love it too much not to use it.  :banana:
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: dedalos on January 26, 2010, 08:52:12 AM
One more thing, I've never seen anyone with the ability to fight his way out of a paper bag actually come in here and claim that picking is ok lol
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: Shuffler on January 26, 2010, 08:57:27 AM
"picking" or "cherry picking" has many forms depending on who died

meaning A:  blatant interuption of a 1 V 1

meaning B:  some people cross " bouncing " with "picking" i.e. BNZ fighting, attacking a con from alt

meaning C:  shooting down Draggon in any form, from any position around the clock   :D

meaning D:  engaging and destroying an aircraft already engaged ( single or multiple bandits )

meaning E:  engaging and destroying a pilot with target fixation or bad SA


etc etc

was your squaddie yelling in your ear on squad vox or f12 range to help him?

if so: No pick, shot at keeping your sanity

if not: Pick    :aok


 :rofl I might add that is draGGon with 2 Gs as draGon with one G is the polar opposite and a fine individual in game.
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: zack1234 on January 26, 2010, 09:03:43 AM
PICKER  :banana:
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: VonMessa on January 26, 2010, 09:13:28 AM
One more thing, I've never seen anyone with the ability to fight his way out of a paper bag actually come in here and claim that picking is ok lol

Ignoring the fact that there always has, is, and will be a lack of check 6's, the fact that one gets picked is there own fault.

Period.

Even if you have a wingman.  Even if he is a good wingman.  It is your own damn fault.

LOOK AROUND.  

Simple.

Elegant.

Effective.
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: BrockS on January 26, 2010, 09:28:25 AM
IMO if you have a problem with being picked, go to the DA for your one v ones. I was just pondering the other day that when on the six of a con from a certain squadron, a squady of theirs suddenly appears to kill me (frequently). In fact, not often am I killed by the aircraft I am engaged with but rather the buddy out of nowhere. By definition, this is picking but I have no problem with it, it is a good squadron tactic in order to survive the MA and my death is "my bad" for not using good SA or having a wingman so I don't get shot down.

What I do have a problem with is members of the very same squadron constantly whining on 200 about being picked when a majority of their kills are a result of exactly that tactic. Like I said, if you want a private fight the MA is not the place, head to the DA.
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: Yenny on January 26, 2010, 09:49:07 AM
Ignoring the fact that there always has, is, and will be a lack of check 6's, the fact that one gets picked is there own fault.

Period.

Even if you have a wingman.  Even if he is a good wingman.  It is your own damn fault.

LOOK AROUND.  

Simple.

Elegant.

Effective.

Damn right, it's a combat game. With that said people gotta accept the fact they will get shot down when they're being gang or while they're not paying attention. Get over that toejam or play microsolf sim or something.
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: Vinkman on January 26, 2010, 11:23:49 AM
It's not the act, it's the motive. I've whined and complained, but I'm getting over it as I realize the difference between a war and the MA.

In a real war the motives are

1. Complete your mission

2. protect your squadies

3. Kill the bad guys.
If everyone motives were these three, behavior in the MA would be very different. But....

In the MA the motives are

1. Get as many kills as you can

2. prove you're a better stick than everyone else

3. land your kills

4. help a squaddie if he asks.

5. take a base or some other mission based task.


Most of the trash talking on 200 seems to involve MA-motives 1 and 2. The guys looking to score kills are always picking because it's easy, but the guy who gets picked thinks he was robbed of his opportunity to prove he was a better stick than the guy he was fighting.

Let's face it, taking bases and winning the war means nothing to most of the people in the MA. So motives 1 and 2 drive most of the behavior. I think this is also compounded by the idea that some believe getting lots of kills proves they're better sticks than everyone else. This leads to everyone having to jump on 200 to tell a picker he has no real skill, just in case he was thinking the kill he just scored was leading him to believe it. Once you understand that, the whining is predictable and avoidable if you choose.  Also, once you understand that, it's easy to ignore.




Title: Re: picking question
Post by: Shuffler on January 26, 2010, 11:52:34 AM
It's not the act, it's the motive. I've whined and complained, but I'm getting over it as I realize the difference between a war and the MA.

In a real war the motives are

1. Complete your mission

2. protect your squadies

3. Kill the bad guys.
If everyone motives were these three, behavior in the MA would be very different. But....

In the MA the motives are

1. Get as many kills as you can

2. prove you're a better stick than everyone else

3. land your kills

4. help a squaddie if he asks.

5. take a base or some other mission based task.


Most of the trash talking on 200 seems to involve MA-motives 1 and 2. The guys looking to score kills are always picking because it's easy, but the guy who gets picked thinks he was robbed of his opportunity to prove he was a better stick than the guy he was fighting.

Let's face it, taking bases and winning the war means nothing to most of the people in the MA. So motives 1 and 2 drive most of the behavior. I think this is also compounded by the idea that some believe getting lots of kills proves they're better sticks than everyone else. This leads to everyone having to jump on 200 to tell a picker he has no real skill, just in case he was thinking the kill he just scored was leading him to believe it. Once you understand that, the whining is predictable and avoidable if you choose.  Also, once you understand that, it's easy to ignore.







You missed a key one I believe.



Looking for a good fight.
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: Vinkman on January 26, 2010, 12:06:59 PM

You missed a key one I believe.



Looking for a good fight.


True. I guess it slots somewhere between 3 and 4? This also leads to the same whining when the good fight is interupted by a third party previously refered to in this thread as 'the picker'. My advice...use the radio.
Title: Re: picking question
Post by: greens on January 26, 2010, 12:11:19 PM
RULE 1 lift index finger RULE 2 lift finger towards nose RULE 3 stick in nose RULE 4 pull out index finger thats picking. jolly nevermind the crybabies wimpers-gets nowhere fast <S>. OHHH RULE 5 flick yer booger towards the crybaby  :aok