Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: SgtPappy on February 01, 2010, 03:32:12 PM

Title: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: SgtPappy on February 01, 2010, 03:32:12 PM
Would that be the first reaction of every beginner pilot flying aircraft (fighters particularly) during WWI?
I read somewhere that the rotary engines at the time leaked oil at a decent rate and so a plane's range would be limited by not only fuel, but by oil as well.

Any thoughts on this? You never really see oil on aircraft from WWI, even though you see it on WWII planes all the time. I'm thinking, if anything, that the lubrication circulation system would be worse on WWI planes.
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: FLS on February 01, 2010, 04:08:36 PM
Rotary engines used Castor oil. It's not so obvious in pictures.
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: Saurdaukar on February 01, 2010, 04:16:02 PM
I think it was in the VF-17 "squad biography" I read that, when the first Corsairs became operational, they leaked so much oil that you had to fly through clouds containing moisture every so often to clear the windshield.
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: FLS on February 01, 2010, 06:18:58 PM
I think it was in the VF-17 "squad biography" I read that, when the first Corsairs became operational, they leaked so much oil that you had to fly through clouds containing moisture every so often to clear the windshield.

Didn't they wire shut the upper cowl flaps for a quick fix?
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: Captain Virgil Hilts on February 01, 2010, 06:50:03 PM
Yes, World War I planes used castor oil, and yes, it was a net loss system, meaning a lot of the oil left the engine during flight. It wasn't just a lack of fuel and oil that caused the lack of range. Think about flying along in a mist of castor oil, and the effect on your body.
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: SIK1 on February 01, 2010, 08:03:56 PM
For those that don't know, one of castor oil's many uses is as a laxative.   :x
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: SgtPappy on February 01, 2010, 09:22:36 PM
That's... amazing?

Hah. Well then, that can be a serious problem for WWI fighters. Assuming a pilot did get through his mission and come back home, were there any records of medical problems resulting from their exposure to this caster oil?
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: FLS on February 01, 2010, 09:52:09 PM
At Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome they still fly a replica Camel with an original rotary engine. It's not like the pilot is covered in oil when he lands. Since you sit behind the propeller in an open cockpit you try to avoid the propwash as much as you can even without the oil issue. It's not a mist of oil, more like a hurricane. Somebody was being funny.   :D

Edit: My avatar is the Rhinebeck Camel.
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: CAP1 on February 01, 2010, 10:18:32 PM
Yes, World War I planes used castor oil, and yes, it was a net loss system, meaning a lot of the oil left the engine during flight. It wasn't just a lack of fuel and oil that caused the lack of range. Think about flying along in a mist of castor oil, and the effect on your body.

this i believe is why they wore scarves around their faces.......
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: CAP1 on February 01, 2010, 10:19:05 PM
I think it was in the VF-17 "squad biography" I read that, when the first Corsairs became operational, they leaked so much oil that you had to fly through clouds containing moisture every so often to clear the windshield.

corsairs used radial engines.

the ww1 planes used rotarys.
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: Delirium on February 02, 2010, 12:26:19 AM
were there any records of medical problems resulting from their exposure to this caster oil?

No, but along with the rigors/stress of war the castor oil tended to make the early dogfighters gaunt.
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: Krusty on February 02, 2010, 02:17:46 AM
this i believe is why they wore scarves around their faces.......

If you mean to keep it off of themselves, then no. The scarves were there to wipe the oil off their goggles constantly so they could see where they were going.
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: Charge on February 02, 2010, 05:20:06 AM
"Hah. Well then, that can be a serious problem for WWI fighters. Assuming a pilot did get through his mission and come back home, were there any records of medical problems resulting from their exposure to this caster oil?"

I have understood from here and there that quite many times the pilots flying those rotary engined fighters were in a hurry to toilet after landing so they would not sht in their pants due swallowing some of that oil. Besides I don't think anybody thought of any medical aspect of it, only the general effects on pilot's comfort.

Considering similar effects on WW2 fighters you can still see a peculiar strip of metal behind the spinner of some Hurricanes. I have understood that it was meant to gather oil seepage from gearbox (due to bad axle gaskets) which would otherwise gather on windscreen and hinder vision.

-C+
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: VonMessa on February 02, 2010, 10:03:28 AM
If you mean to keep it off of themselves, then no. The scarves were there to wipe the oil off their goggles constantly so they could see where they were going.

In addition to prevent the neck from getting chafed by the collar of the flight jacket from the constant turning of the head when scanning the sky..
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: VonMessa on February 02, 2010, 10:06:59 AM
"Hah. Well then, that can be a serious problem for WWI fighters. Assuming a pilot did get through his mission and come back home, were there any records of medical problems resulting from their exposure to this caster oil?"

I have understood from here and there that quite many times the pilots flying those rotary engined fighters were in a hurry to toilet after landing so they would not sht in their pants due swallowing some of that oil. Besides I don't think anybody thought of any medical aspect of it, only the general effects on pilot's comfort.

Considering similar effects on WW2 fighters you can still see a peculiar strip of metal behind the spinner of some Hurricanes. I have understood that it was meant to gather oil seepage from gearbox (due to bad axle gaskets) which would otherwise gather on windscreen and hinder vision.

-C+


There used to be an a guy from around these parts (friend of my Grandfather) that flew one of these planes (a long time ago when I was very young) in a local air show

We loved the stunts that he would do, but I recall conversations that he had with my Grandfather about remembering to hold his breath or keeping his mouth shut (especially in the inverted stunts) due to the fact that the castor oil gave him the green apple splashes if he swallowed too much

 :noid
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: CAP1 on February 02, 2010, 10:38:50 AM
If you mean to keep it off of themselves, then no. The scarves were there to wipe the oil off their goggles constantly so they could see where they were going.

I THOUGHT they were to keep the castor oil from going in their mouths too.
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: VonMessa on February 02, 2010, 10:59:30 AM
I THOUGHT they were to keep the castor oil from going in their mouths too.

They were fom what I have read/heard, etc, a highly useful, multipurpose accessory that could be used for a multitude of things.
Much akin to a towel in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.   :D
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: Saurdaukar on February 02, 2010, 11:57:20 AM
corsairs used radial engines.

the ww1 planes used rotarys.

That's what I get for reading.
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: Krusty on February 02, 2010, 11:57:36 AM
 :rofl

Kudos for that analogy!
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: morfiend on February 02, 2010, 04:52:58 PM
 So does this mean HTC will model some sort of effect?

 Maybe once the airframe reaches 5G's the pilot will be subject to a brownout!


   :devil
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: texastc316 on February 02, 2010, 06:30:43 PM
I'm sure it will spew onto 200
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: 2ADoc on February 02, 2010, 06:39:39 PM
The scarves were to wipe their goggles off and also to prevent chaffing around their neck.  Along with the Castor oil, there was also the problem that some models did not have self oiling rocker arms, and had to be greased.  I speak from exp that there is nothing quite like having a ball of hot grease catch you right between the eyes and then start to smear, all about the time the tail comes up while doing a formation takeoff.  I always flew with my mouth shut, even though I was using aeroshell 100, it did not taste that good either, and the bugs, oh the bugs.  A dragon fly hitting you in the forehead at 70 will raise a welt.
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: smoe on February 04, 2010, 05:51:54 PM
The scarves were used to attract the ladies and pie eating. :salute
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: VonMessa on February 05, 2010, 08:15:12 AM
The scarves were used to attract the ladies and pie eating. :salute

I love me some good, sloppy pie eating  :devil
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: Wingnutt on February 09, 2010, 12:07:35 PM
"brown-out" and "green apple splashes"

If I get nothing else from this thread, I will have still had too much.
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: W7LPNRICK on February 09, 2010, 08:32:26 PM
Castor oil in not very viscous and does not like heat. It burns/scorches easily and when it leaks, even a little it stains everything black. 
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: cp101 on February 13, 2010, 07:51:28 PM
if hitech does make tha caster oil leak in the game, i heard it can make the pilot very sick so it could be an effect for flying to long and can blur your vision or something
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: W7LPNRICK on February 14, 2010, 08:42:47 PM
if hitech does make tha caster oil leak in the game, i heard it can make the pilot very sick so it could be an effect for flying to long and can blur your vision or something

Castor beans are seriously poisonous.   :rofl
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: guncrasher on February 15, 2010, 01:51:23 AM
Castor beans are seriously poisonous.   :rofl

naw its the presence of ricin that makes it toxic.  but it has lots of medical uses.

semp
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: W7LPNRICK on February 15, 2010, 02:38:44 AM
naw its the presence of ricin that makes it toxic.  but it has lots of medical uses.

semp
I know that...old wives tale. Ricin has to be removed in a lab in oerder to get enough to kill. Gramma used to pinch our noses and force a spoon full of either caster oil or Cod liver oil down us.  :D
Title: Re: Oh, there's oil EVERYWHERE!
Post by: Simba on February 15, 2010, 01:43:20 PM
"Think about flying along in a mist of castor oil, and the effect on your body."

I use the same antidote as those rotary-engine jockeys did in the days when Pontius was a pilot - good scotch, drunk as often as is possible without totally compromising flying skills.

<hic>

 :cool: