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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: pervert on February 04, 2010, 07:28:41 PM

Title: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: pervert on February 04, 2010, 07:28:41 PM
For the Stuka I know this has been up a million times before but if my kids have taught me anything its that repeating yourself gets results  :)
I don't see how adding it as an option will be any different to say the IL2 which is the uber dweeb ride of tank busting. And it would give the plane a purpose in the late war arenas.

Lets face it even if you want to fly the plane usually the ords at that base are down, or theres a ton of air cover and the minute your spotted you get hoed to death.  :aok

Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: AWwrgwy on February 04, 2010, 09:04:16 PM
IIRC the issue is that our Ju87, with big cannons added, is not the same aircraft as the actual Ju87 with big cannons.  It would be akin to asking for cannons to be added on a P-51D on the basis of 100 P-51/Mustang IA's having been equipped as such.


wrongway
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: Motherland on February 04, 2010, 09:15:34 PM
IIRC the issue is that our Ju87, with big cannons added, is not the same aircraft as the actual Ju87 with big cannons.  It would be akin to asking for cannons to be added on a P-51D on the basis of 100 P-51/Mustang IA's having been equipped as such.


wrongway
Ju 87D-3 + 2x BK37 = Ju 87G-1
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: Karnak on February 04, 2010, 10:53:20 PM
Those aren't big anyways.

Big might start at the 50m BK50 on the Me410 57mm Ho-401 on the Ki-102-Ib or the 57mm Mollins gun on the Mosquito FB.Mk XVIII.
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: Ruler2 on February 04, 2010, 11:00:58 PM
IIRC the issue is that our Ju87, with big cannons added, is not the same aircraft as the actual Ju87 with big cannons.  It would be akin to asking for cannons to be added on a P-51D on the basis of 100 P-51/Mustang IA's having been equipped as such.


wrongway

Aww come on, now I want one  :D
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: vonKrimm on February 04, 2010, 11:30:32 PM
IIRC the issue is that our Ju87, with big cannons added, is not the same aircraft as the actual Ju87 with big cannons.  It would be akin to asking for cannons to be added on a P-51D on the basis of 100 P-51/Mustang IA's having been equipped as such.


wrongway

What if we only put them on the Pony-B?
 :bolt:
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: Bronk on February 05, 2010, 04:53:22 AM
Those aren't big anyways.

 57mm Mollins gun on the Mosquito FB.Mk XVIII.

GIMMEEE!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: Delirium on February 05, 2010, 05:30:34 AM
I don't see how adding it as an option will be any different to say the IL2

It won't be... I'll bet the Il2 will still get more use due to the greater amount of rounds it carries, even with the larger of the 2 caliber guns it carries.
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: Ghosth on February 05, 2010, 07:05:30 AM
I agree with Del.

Ju-87 with the gun pods had very short ammo clip. Like 8 rounds each.

iL2 is a much better platform IMO.

Now there are a lot of big guns I'd love to see in AH someday. Including the anti shipping 57mm on the mossie etc.

But I really don't see the point for the ju-87.
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: pervert on February 05, 2010, 07:39:42 AM
It won't be... I'll bet the Il2 will still get more use due to the greater amount of rounds it carries, even with the larger of the 2 caliber guns it carries.

I didn't say it would be better just that it wouldn't upset existing game play by being super over the top at killing gvs. Just because something gets more use doesn't mean it will be to the taste of all players.

I agree with Del.

Ju-87 with the gun pods had very short ammo clip. Like 8 rounds each.

iL2 is a much better platform IMO.

Now there are a lot of big guns I'd love to see in AH someday. Including the anti shipping 57mm on the mossie etc.

But I really don't see the point for the ju-87.

I could counter this by saying the spit16 is a much better platform for killing people than any other plane, would you then stick around in game if the spit 16 was the only plane you could fly? The point is a simple upgrade could breath life into a plane that seldom gets any use because of the style of gameplay of the MA. In short variety is good.
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: pervert on February 05, 2010, 07:44:25 AM
IIRC the issue is that our Ju87, with big cannons added, is not the same aircraft as the actual Ju87 with big cannons.  It would be akin to asking for cannons to be added on a P-51D on the basis of 100 P-51/Mustang IA's having been equipped as such.


wrongway

Just requires a simple choice in the hanger as to what loadout you take same as il2
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: 10thmd on February 05, 2010, 10:17:39 AM

But I really don't see the point for the ju-87.



Because some of us only Fly Luftwaffe.
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: Delirium on February 05, 2010, 10:26:17 AM
Because some of us only Fly Luftwaffe.

With all due respect to JG11, who I got to know very well, that is a self imposed restriction. Except for a few scenarios, the up-gunned Ju87 will see little use. I'd rather see the Ju88 redone and its fighter variant added long before the Stuka gets done.
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: gyrene81 on February 05, 2010, 10:55:50 AM
The misinformation and lack of information on this one is funny...here is the 8 pages of discussion on the plane and options in question that could have just been bumped to save a couple of you the embarrassment:

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,278221.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,278221.0.html)

Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: pervert on February 05, 2010, 11:17:58 AM
With all due respect to JG11, who I got to know very well, that is a self imposed restriction. Except for a few scenarios, the up-gunned Ju87 will see little use. I'd rather see the Ju88 redone and its fighter variant added long before the Stuka gets done.

Theres nothing wrong with self imposed restrictions Del, for a lot of people its thier main reason for keeping an interest in the game. I know in the case of the Stuka and the ground attack role its something I would like to get into to widen my scope in the game above fighters.

 I fly it from time to time but my options to fly it are restricted because any GVer in his right mind won't attack a field with ords up to have himself carpet bombed by low Lancs, so where theres GVs theres no ords I cannot fly or I fly from another base and have to drop my ords to dogfight someone which, amusing as it is, isn't the reason I upped in the first place.
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: Boozeman on February 05, 2010, 12:53:10 PM
Comparing the tankbuster Stuka with the IL-2 and the Hurri 2D, I see quite some usage due to it's gun setup:

It has by far the highest MV (30% more than the IL-2, almost twice that of the Hurricane) with a round power right between them. THis will be a snipers weapon...and probably a nightmare for flakpanzers.     
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: Megalodon on February 05, 2010, 02:11:28 PM
I agree with Del.

Ju-87 with the gun pods had very short ammo clip. Like 8 rounds each.


12 rounds ...still short! but worth putting in game.
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: Karnak on February 05, 2010, 03:31:19 PM
Theres nothing wrong with self imposed restrictions Del, for a lot of people its thier main reason for keeping an interest in the game. I know in the case of the Stuka and the ground attack role its something I would like to get into to widen my scope in the game above fighters.

 I fly it from time to time but my options to fly it are restricted because any GVer in his right mind won't attack a field with ords up to have himself carpet bombed by low Lancs, so where theres GVs theres no ords I cannot fly or I fly from another base and have to drop my ords to dogfight someone which, amusing as it is, isn't the reason I upped in the first place.
Does that mean that a player who only flies Japanese would be justified in demanding the Ki-102-Ib and that their argument claiming it was equally valid as, say, a Beaufighter despite its almost zero combat record would be correct?
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: Lusche on February 05, 2010, 04:35:03 PM
Comparing the tankbuster Stuka with the IL-2 and the Hurri 2D, I see quite some usage due to it's gun setup:

It has by far the highest MV (30% more than the IL-2, almost twice that of the Hurricane) with a round power right between them. THis will be a snipers weapon...and probably a nightmare for flakpanzers.     

This would be a good argument if the IL-2'S 37mm cannon had trouble penetrating the armor of any GV in AH... but it hasn't. As long as there is no GV with enough armor to push the NS-37 to it's limits, the Shturmovik is holding all cards compared to the 87G.
Once upon a time, there actually was such a situation: When the Il-2 had only the 23mm option. At that time the Hurri D had a performance advantage when engaging Tiger & T-34/76. Today, with the overpowering  37mm, the Hurri D gets more selected for sentimental reasons ;)

And as a Wirbel driver, I would be glad if the cannon bird upping for me was a Ju-87 G. Slow, vulnerable and only little ammo. Much less dangerous than a Il-2 or a B-25H.
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: kilo2 on February 05, 2010, 07:50:05 PM
Ju-87 G-1 and D3 are the same except that the G1 has the cannons. +1
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: pervert on February 05, 2010, 08:03:23 PM
And as a Wirbel driver, I would be glad if the cannon bird upping for me was a Ju-87 G. Slow, vulnerable and only little ammo. Much less dangerous than a Il-2 or a B-25H.

Hello! I'd drive the Stuka up behind you while your looking at the sky boom!  :rofl Stukas can drive on the ground at full speed!  :D
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: pervert on February 05, 2010, 08:12:03 PM
Does that mean that a player who only flies Japanese would be justified in demanding the Ki-102-Ib and that their argument claiming it was equally valid as, say, a Beaufighter despite its almost zero combat record would be correct?

I see what you're getting at but not the relevence sorry.
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: CountD90 on February 05, 2010, 08:49:55 PM
I must agree with the above, the G series of the stuka saw a lot of combat. So I don't see the point about bringing combat service into this with a totally different plane.
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: Karnak on February 05, 2010, 10:37:48 PM
I am pointing out that the fact that you don't have a German tank buster is 100% irrelevant.

The aircraft should be added or not on its own merits, not anything else.
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: Boozeman on February 06, 2010, 05:07:17 AM
This would be a good argument if the IL-2'S 37mm cannon had trouble penetrating the armor of any GV in AH... but it hasn't. As long as there is no GV with enough armor to push the NS-37 to it's limits, the Shturmovik is holding all cards compared to the 87G.
Once upon a time, there actually was such a situation: When the Il-2 had only the 23mm option. At that time the Hurri D had a performance advantage when engaging Tiger & T-34/76. Today, with the overpowering  37mm, the Hurri D gets more selected for sentimental reasons ;)

And as a Wirbel driver, I would be glad if the cannon bird upping for me was a Ju-87 G. Slow, vulnerable and only little ammo. Much less dangerous than a Il-2 or a B-25H.

There is no doubt that the IL-2 overall is the more effective anti-tank aircraft. But I think the 87G would still have its merits. It would have the best ballistics for superior long range shots. That is certainly appealing - not just for tankbusting. ;)

BTW, does the flak 18 have better armor penetration than the NS37 ?
   
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: pervert on February 06, 2010, 06:22:31 AM
I am pointing out that the fact that you don't have a German tank buster is 100% irrelevant.

The aircraft should be added or not on its own merits, not anything else.

What do you consider the 'merits' of the existing stuka?
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: Bruv119 on February 06, 2010, 09:12:24 AM
+1  for  the stuka ,  aswell as  the mossie 57mm molins gun!!   
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: BaldEagl on February 06, 2010, 09:15:34 AM
It won't be... I'll bet the Il2 will still get more use due to the greater amount of rounds it carries, even with the larger of the 2 caliber guns it carries.

Not to mention it's ability to take hits.

But yes, I'd like to see the gun pods on the Stuka.  I love that plane and a small clips not a problem.  No more so than the Hurri IID.
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: druski85 on February 06, 2010, 10:05:54 AM
What do you consider the 'merits' of the existing stuka?

N00k  :aok

Saw a 2 weeker ask the other day if it would kill a tank.   :rofl
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: Karnak on February 06, 2010, 12:35:15 PM
What do you consider the 'merits' of the existing stuka?
I wasn't arguing against the Ju87G, I was arguing against the argument being used to support it.  I don't think that argument is valid and I think it might weaken the case for the Ju87G.

As to the Ju87G, I think it has more validity than the Il-2 armed with 37mm cannons and really see no reason for HTC not to add it when they update the Ju87.  I'd also like to see an actual Battle of Britain/France/Norway/Poland Ju87 added when they are updated.
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: pervert on February 06, 2010, 01:29:36 PM
I wasn't arguing against the Ju87G, I was arguing against the argument being used to support it.  I don't think that argument is valid and I think it might weaken the case for the Ju87G.

As to the Ju87G, I think it has more validity than the Il-2 armed with 37mm cannons and really see no reason for HTC not to add it when they update the Ju87.  I'd also like to see an actual Battle of Britain/France/Norway/Poland Ju87 added when they are updated.

Sorry I think I misread/misunderstood your original post  :salute
N00k  :aok

Saw a 2 weeker ask the other day if it would kill a tank.   :rofl

I like to offload the nuke as soon as I can  :D thats if you can even get to a decent height to drop her! Also makes up for my rubbish aim  :lol drop it within half a mile and BOOOM result lol

Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: Bruv119 on February 06, 2010, 01:31:56 PM
how many gay antelopes were hurt in the process of dropping said bomb with your aiming skills?
Title: Re: BIG BIG cannons!!
Post by: pervert on February 06, 2010, 01:39:01 PM
how many gay antelopes were hurt in the process of dropping said bomb with your aiming skills?

In your position of 'Bruv119 Archbishop of Gay Antelopes' and one of the first members of the Gay Antelopes, you should know the stats on this matter and that it is not to be discussed in public in the full glare of non Gay Antelope members!  :lol