Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Mus51 on February 17, 2010, 07:03:09 AM

Title: Stab/JG301 TA-152H 'Black 13'
Post by: Mus51 on February 17, 2010, 07:03:09 AM
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii193/betsiej_album/1521.jpg)
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii193/betsiej_album/ta1523.jpg)
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii193/betsiej_album/ta1524.jpg)
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii193/betsiej_album/ta1522.jpg)

After a little adjustment:
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii193/betsiej_album/1522.jpg)
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii193/betsiej_album/1523.jpg)
Title: Re: Stab/JG301 TA-152H 'Black 13'
Post by: USRanger on February 17, 2010, 03:33:34 PM
Absolutely beautiful!
Title: Re: Stab/JG301 TA-152H 'Black 13'
Post by: fudgums on February 17, 2010, 03:49:52 PM
 :O hope they can use it in the next scenario!!
Title: Re: Stab/JG301 TA-152H 'Black 13'
Post by: Krusty on February 17, 2010, 06:10:33 PM
I like the Ta152, and it's good to see a new skin for the old girl!

I have a couple of suggestions for you though:

1) The flaps are split flaps. They don't rotate down like 109 or p51s, so you wouldn't see a shade/gap/wrinkle on the upper surface of the wing. The upper surface would look like a wing with no flaps at all. Yours has this shading on the ailerons, then continues that shading all the way to the flap root as if the flaps hinge downward.

2) I think your paint is way too heavily weathered.. It looks like there are giant black shadows over the upper wings, and I can't quite tell what's going on with the side-camo-demarcation and the tail mottling... Doesn't look right. Consider that these planes were built, painted, and flown in the time span of only a couple of months. The paint quality might have degraded a bit, the color standards changed, but it was freshly painted not that long ago (relatively speaking, about the real plane) and wouldn't look like it's been in service for 5 years. Just a thought.
Title: Re: Stab/JG301 TA-152H 'Black 13'
Post by: JunkyII on February 17, 2010, 06:25:06 PM
I like the Ta152, and it's good to see a new skin for the old girl!

I have a couple of suggestions for you though:

1) The flaps are split flaps. They don't rotate down like 109 or p51s, so you wouldn't see a shade/gap/wrinkle on the upper surface of the wing. The upper surface would look like a wing with no flaps at all. Yours has this shading on the ailerons, then continues that shading all the way to the flap root as if the flaps hinge downward.

2) I think your paint is way too heavily weathered.. It looks like there are giant black shadows over the upper wings, and I can't quite tell what's going on with the side-camo-demarcation and the tail mottling... Doesn't look right. Consider that these planes were built, painted, and flown in the time span of only a couple of months. The paint quality might have degraded a bit, the color standards changed, but it was freshly painted not that long ago (relatively speaking, about the real plane) and wouldn't look like it's been in service for 5 years. Just a thought.
Doesnt need it, already looks great!!! :rock
Title: Re: Stab/JG301 TA-152H 'Black 13'
Post by: Motherland on February 17, 2010, 08:16:53 PM
I agree with Krusty on the flaps and the way the upper wings look with the black splotches (I think they only need to be toned down a bit maybe), but it looks fantastic.

In every picture I've seen one in, a Ta 152H has always looked like it was in pretty bad shape, despite being relatively new aircraft.
Title: Re: Stab/JG301 TA-152H 'Black 13'
Post by: lyric1 on February 17, 2010, 09:14:43 PM
 :aok
Title: Re: Stab/JG301 TA-152H 'Black 13'
Post by: Mus51 on February 18, 2010, 09:55:51 AM
Thanks for the critisism, i will look into the flaps alltho i already sended this one to skuzzy.

About the weathering - All pictures i've seen from the TA152 are very weathered aircraft aswell so hence why i weathered it so much. Also, unweathered skins tent to look cartoonish unless they shine allot.

(http://www.luchtoorlog.be/img/fw190d/v20.jpg[img]
[img]http://www.atomicworkshop.co.uk/catalog/images/fockewulf_ta-152.gif)

Here's an example of my skins in other games:

(http://i363.photobucket.com/albums/oo76/chilikenbabski/aa3.jpg?t=1266508413)
(http://i363.photobucket.com/albums/oo76/chilikenbabski/swao3.jpg?t=1266508470)
(http://i363.photobucket.com/albums/oo76/chilikenbabski/jfk4-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Stab/JG301 TA-152H 'Black 13'
Post by: JunkyII on February 18, 2010, 04:50:03 PM
What game is that?
Title: Re: Stab/JG301 TA-152H 'Black 13'
Post by: Mus51 on February 18, 2010, 05:34:18 PM
What game is that?

Flight Simulator 2004
Title: Re: Stab/JG301 TA-152H 'Black 13'
Post by: JunkyII on February 18, 2010, 06:22:07 PM
Oh


 :o

Title: Re: Stab/JG301 TA-152H 'Black 13'
Post by: Krusty on February 18, 2010, 06:59:08 PM
It's not that I don't want it to be weathered. There's just a different way to weather it. Making the paint corroded or blackened just doesn't look right. I'm more for a dirt/grime/stains type of weathering on this plane, than I am for "the paint is old" style of weathering.

Don't take this as an insult, just a discussion on 152 weathering. I hold your work in high esteem in general.


Just for example, some Ta152s during the war:

(http://jorgenmodin.net/index_html/archive/2007/11/images/Focke_Wulf_Ta152.jpg)

You see the paint/mottling is fairly steady on the upper surfaces. The lowers are a bit less-so, but this looks more like stains and such than paint issues (see the stain on the flaps just about where the wheels might kick up dirt, or possibly where hydraulics leaked backwards from the gear joint onto the flap? See the drips downward from the exhausts on the chin panel, looks like he leaked a bit!)

(http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/434-6/ta-152-h1.jpg)

Green 4. You can see the deliberate mottling patterns to obscure the sides. These aren't faded and dirty, just painted in a specific way. See the repainted tail area. Again, fairly consistent paint quality. Note again the grime/muck underneath, but also note that the airframe is generally clean (see the shine underneath the wingtip, the gear doors, etc -- looks like only the leaks/stains are the dirty areas)

Swinging the compass:

(http://www.tgplanes.com/ta152.jpg)

Possibly an H-0, but as you can see there's a criss-cross pattern on the mottling that from a distance may look dirty, smoky, muddy, but is more of a deliberate paint pattern. They mottled the sides for camo, rather than left them so dirty it just became camoflagued. Much cleaner sides and undersurfaces (oddly enough, the black box around the exhausts reminds me of JG2's 109s and some 190D-9s later).

(http://www.luftwaffe-reich.co.uk/images/fighters-and-interceptors/focke-wulf/focke-wulf-ta-152-fighter-1.jpg)

An earlier prototype or a 152C model (note the short-span wings) you can see how this one is late-war because of the unpainted parts of the lower wing (like some Doras). Note that it's got leakage under the exhausts (looks a bit stained there) and the giant exhaust plume stains, but overall is in good paint condition.



Just some food for thought. The paint just didn't break down that fast in the 1-2 months these planes were around. (IMO)
Title: Re: Stab/JG301 TA-152H 'Black 13'
Post by: lyric1 on February 18, 2010, 07:17:04 PM
Not sure I would use the first two pics as a source as they were captured aircraft that had allied markings & they repainted them again with German not to sure what would be original & what is not.
Title: Re: Stab/JG301 TA-152H 'Black 13'
Post by: AWwrgwy on February 18, 2010, 08:46:32 PM
Not sure I would use the first two pics as a source as they were captured aircraft that had allied markings & they repainted them again with German not to sure what would be original & what is not.

But couldn't you use them as a source of weathering as was being pointed out in the post?  Wear and tear due to use?

wrongway
Title: Re: Stab/JG301 TA-152H 'Black 13'
Post by: lyric1 on February 18, 2010, 09:18:52 PM
But couldn't you use them as a source of weathering as was being pointed out in the post?  Wear and tear due to use?

wrongway
Possibly?
Title: Re: Stab/JG301 TA-152H 'Black 13'
Post by: Motherland on February 18, 2010, 09:32:21 PM
But couldn't you use them as a source of weathering as was being pointed out in the post?  Wear and tear due to use?

wrongway
repainted.
No

The H looks like it's having its guns calibrated for the first time as it leaves the factory and the C is still wearing Stammkennzeichnen. Neither of them are really worth anything for weathering puproses.
Title: Re: Stab/JG301 TA-152H 'Black 13'
Post by: Krusty on February 18, 2010, 09:49:42 PM
It is not a gun calibration tool It's a compass. It swings it around with zero distance.

The only stuff repainted on the captured models is the national markings covering up the crosses, and the hand-painted reference numbers on the tail.

I do think the cross/swastika on the second pic are photoshopped in for some reason. Those would have been painted over (like the first picture).


As for weathering... Even if you left it out in the snow and rain for 2 months straight it wouldn't look heavily weathered... It would look dusty, like how rain/snow leaves dust behind when it's gone, but an active in-flight unit would keep the planes in hangars or covered, and rinse most of that of with general maintanence. Look at the highly polished underside of the wing in the second captured pic. That's end-of-war, been through the worst, and they still kept it clean enough to catch the light.

I think they're good examples. Not definite, but give a good idea, and are appropriate to the time frame in question.


EDIT: Conversely, let's see some of these examples where "every photo I've seen is beat to hell" -- I've only seen a couple sitting around 50 years after the fact that look totally wasted.
Title: Re: Stab/JG301 TA-152H 'Black 13'
Post by: Megalodon on February 19, 2010, 01:47:14 PM
krusty's second pic is at the Garber facility and shows the original mottle
(http://www.hermitworks.com/Garber/Ta152/PIC00052.jpg)
(http://www.hermitworks.com/Garber/Ta152/PIC00051.jpg)
(http://www.hermitworks.com/Garber/Ta152/PIC00050.jpg)
Title: Re: Stab/JG301 TA-152H 'Black 13'
Post by: AWwrgwy on February 19, 2010, 08:59:46 PM


As for weathering... Even if you left it out in the snow and rain for 2 months straight it wouldn't look heavily weathered... It would look dusty, like how rain/snow leaves dust behind when it's gone, but an active in-flight unit would keep the planes in hangars or covered, and rinse most of that of with general maintanence. Look at the highly polished underside of the wing in the second captured pic. That's end-of-war, been through the worst, and they still kept it clean enough to catch the light.

I think they're good examples. Not definite, but give a good idea, and are appropriate to the time frame in question.



What about boot prints?

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y82/Furlump/P0king_Emoticon.gif)

SORRY?



wrongway
Title: Re: Stab/JG301 TA-152H 'Black 13'
Post by: Krusty on February 19, 2010, 11:53:31 PM
Megalodon, I wouldn't say it shows the original mottling very well. The colors have changed on that pretty badly. It's been neglected and sitting in lots and in warehouses since the end of the war. Only recently have they started doing any work on it. The color and quality of the paint isn't exactly "right" -- especially on the tail and fuselage where they stripped down some of it to previous layers to see what was under it and make repairs.

I would say that's the worst photo to use because that's nothing at all how it looked while actively flying in the LW.

Just my 2c.
Title: Re: Stab/JG301 TA-152H 'Black 13'
Post by: Megalodon on February 19, 2010, 11:59:35 PM
Megalodon, I wouldn't say it shows the original mottling very well. The colors have changed on that pretty badly. It's been neglected and sitting in lots and in warehouses since the end of the war. Only recently have they started doing any work on it. The color and quality of the paint isn't exactly "right" -- especially on the tail and fuselage where they stripped down some of it to previous layers to see what was under it and make repairs.

I would say that's the worst photo to use because that's nothing at all how it looked while actively flying in the LW.

Just my 2c.
the tail cross and number have been touched not the front of the plane.
Title: Re: Stab/JG301 TA-152H 'Black 13'
Post by: Krusty on February 21, 2010, 08:50:10 PM
You forget that the paint was applied well over 50 years ago, it rotted in the sun unkept while folks tested it after the war, then was stored in a field somewhere, then was shipped off to a museum storage room and dumped for the better number of decades.

Paint holds up a lot better over 2 months than it does over 60 years.


EDIT: Look at Olive Drab. Marked differences between fresh paint and "old" paint and "baked" paint... the color shifts wildly depending on how old it is.
Title: Re: Stab/JG301 TA-152H 'Black 13'
Post by: Greebo on February 26, 2010, 04:13:54 AM
Great job on this and your other 152 and 262 skins Mus51, very nicely aged.
Title: Re: Stab/JG301 TA-152H 'Black 13'
Post by: Nr_RaVeN on February 26, 2010, 06:42:53 AM
 :aok nice looking  bird :aok