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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ack-Ack on February 17, 2010, 05:49:06 PM

Title: Information on new damage model
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 17, 2010, 05:49:06 PM
When the WW1 arena was first announced, it was mentioned in the announcement that part of the reason for the WW1 arena was to test out the new damage model.  Since then nothing has been mentioned about the new damage model.  Can we get an update on it?  What is being changed and how is it going to work? 


ack-ack
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: Lusche on February 17, 2010, 05:54:24 PM
They will introduce the "hit bubble" concept (slightly bigger than our planes), and all damage to individual components will be removed and substituted with a single "plane health" value.
When the health bar in upper right corner turns from green to red, it's time to head home...

 :noid
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: curry1 on February 17, 2010, 05:56:14 PM
Lusche i hope you be trolling.
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: Jayhawk on February 17, 2010, 05:57:24 PM
They will introduce the "hit bubble" concept (slightly bigger than our planes), and all damage to individual components will be removed and substituted with a single "plane health" value.
When the health bar in upper right corner turns from green to red, it's time to head home...

 :noid

Here's my thought process while reading that:

"Well that's just ridiculo.... ohhh"
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 17, 2010, 05:58:19 PM
They will introduce the "hit bubble" concept (slightly bigger than our planes), and all damage to individual components will be removed and substituted with a single "plane health" value.
When the health bar in upper right corner turns from green to red, it's time to head home...

 :noid

This is my small pond, go fishing somewhere else!  :neener:

But seriously, I'm interested in knowing how the new damage model is going to work. 


ack-ack
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: Krusty on February 17, 2010, 05:58:50 PM
Lusche i hope you be trolling.

He is.

The damage model was (from what I read) an increase in the number of parts rather than the complexity of parts. Meaning instead of just "wingtip, outer wing, wing root" there were more parts per wing and their effects would be felt in different ways. Think of damaging but not destroying a biplane's cloth-covered wing. You might get away but how you do and how you fly while doing it will be different.


IMO a step in the right direction, but they never said anything about adding newly complex models, just increasing the number of existing models.
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 17, 2010, 06:00:32 PM
It would be cool if HTC could posts a short video showing the damage model in action.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: Krusty on February 17, 2010, 06:02:08 PM
They will in 2 weeks.

 :banana:
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: LLogann on February 17, 2010, 06:45:39 PM
I heard that too actually................   :bolt:

They will in 2 weeks.

 :banana:

However, +1 on Ack-Ack!  It would be nice to hear a little more on it.  
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: Sunka on February 17, 2010, 06:47:36 PM
I just want to see it in action as i fall from the sky.

And ahh AW.... :old:
They will introduce the "hit bubble" concept (slightly bigger than our planes), and all damage to individual components will be removed and substituted with a single "plane health" value.
When the health bar in upper right corner turns from green to red, it's time to head home...

 :noid
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: Kazaa on February 17, 2010, 07:27:32 PM
It would be cool if HTC could posts a short video showing the damage model in action.


ack-ack

+1, I'm really hoping that the new damage model is something impressive.
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: Ruler2 on February 17, 2010, 07:28:43 PM
They will introduce the "hit bubble" concept (slightly bigger than our planes), and all damage to individual components will be removed and substituted with a single "plane health" value.
When the health bar in upper right corner turns from green to red, it's time to head home...

 :noid

Ace of Duty 2?  :rofl
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: rabbidrabbit on February 17, 2010, 07:30:29 PM

But seriously, I'm interested in knowing how the new damage model is going to work. 
ack-ack

Very well.
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: Wingnutt on February 17, 2010, 07:33:01 PM
Im hoping, and maybe its more like dreaming..

that the new model will graphically show and model in flight more than just actual control surfaces being removed..  I.E. you could get shot in the wing, it makes  a hole in the wing where you got hit that is size appropriate to the type of ammo that hit you, and you lose a measure of "effectiveness" in that surface (if applicable)     so If my wing gets a bunch of 20mm holes in it..and is still there, it doesent fly the same as a clean wing.. and maybe could be snapped off if sufficient g-forces were applied due to being weakened by the damage..  ohh... stick stir that...  :banana:
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: grizz441 on February 17, 2010, 07:45:10 PM
They will introduce the "hit bubble" concept (slightly bigger than our planes), and all damage to individual components will be removed and substituted with a single "plane health" value.
When the health bar in upper right corner turns from green to red, it's time to head home...

 :noid

He kids but that's exactly how each individual plane component works in the current model IIRC.   :)
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: dedalos on February 17, 2010, 07:45:22 PM
They will introduce the "hit bubble" concept (slightly bigger than our planes), and all damage to individual components will be removed and substituted with a single "plane health" value.
When the health bar in upper right corner turns from green to red, it's time to head home...

 :noid

Unless we get a green power up, right?
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: Wingnutt on February 17, 2010, 08:17:46 PM
As i understand it, if you hold down your trigger you build up a power blast that can kill a airship in one shot, but if you hold it too long you get a nose bleed, if you hold it still eventually your plane explodes.
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: soda72 on February 17, 2010, 08:43:39 PM
+1

 :x
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: bustr on February 17, 2010, 09:18:08 PM
A WWI biplanes wood structure besides using glue and fasteners is tensioned internaly with steel cable. When your bullet clips one of those internal cables or its anchor point, the next stressing of that area without the cabel tension can snap the wood under structure. Or the reverse a bullet shatters some of the understructure and allows the cable tension to sag. I will conjecture that the german designers went to plywood semimonocu and welded metal tubing for this reason. The British contiued using wood formers with complicated metal fasteners at the joints which were then tensioned by metal cables.

Consider wing construction. Built up wood and spar with inernal tension cables. Then you have all of the pully and pivot hardware for the alerons that when shot up will result with a mess trying to fly the aircraft. Most engine mounts for inline engines until the DVII were wood. Rotary engine mounts until the DrI were metal to a wood firewall with sheet metal covering. Then lets make this messy even more with fuel tank placements in front or under the pilot and worse radiator placements. Many radiator for inline engines were mounted in the upper wing just in front or slightly to the side of the pilot. They were not armored. Hit the radiator and the pilot gets hot fluid in the face. Fortunatly our first round of kites don't have this problem.

WWII all metal construction took advantage of the aluminum skin as part of the aircrafts structural integrity. Beer cans with internal riveted bulkheads with steel armor plateing. WWI aircraft the cloth skin was not so much for that type of integrity as it was neccessary to the ability for the wings to generate lift. So when one of those WWI wood, wire and cloth structures is shot up, you need a much expanded damage modle to account for the hundreds of internal structures harmonized together and how they can fail.

This web site is for the Vintage Aviator in New Zeland. They build WWI aricraft from original blue prints constructing all of the parts and fittings along with some of the engines themselves. Look through the detailed construction project archives to understand why HiTech had to expand the damage model for the WWI aircraft. There are hundreds of intigrated systems that a few random .30 cal can tear to peices.

http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/node
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: Ghosth on February 18, 2010, 06:00:12 AM
Well AckAck it is several months now since I heard HT talking about this at the con.

With that caveat

As I remember a lot of it was stuff like.
AH current has 2 states, intact, and failed, nothing inbetween. With the new damage model they'd be able to have several states. Intact, 25% damaged, 50% damaged, 75% damaged, and failed. Now apply that to something like a wingtip that has been shot at.

So you could have reduced airflow because of the holes. You could have structural members that are still there, but ready to snap at any increased pressure. So the next time you force it into a 5g turn it goes snap.

I think they were also  increasing the # of damage points in a plane. And thats just one possible example.

You won't necessarily "know" how much more your plane can take if you've been shot up.
Where now you pretty much do. As long as you have control surfaces, engine thrust, and lift, you can continue to fly and fight.

Same plane in same situation under the new model had best be trying to get out, and get home.
As something may fail at any point that will screw the pooch.

But we'll have a better idea once he gets the bugs out and we can play with the WWI birds.
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: Slate on February 18, 2010, 08:59:19 AM
  I'm hoping I can tear off that pesky second wing coming out of the Hanger and make my plane as fast as the super Fokker!  :airplane:
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: Kirin on February 18, 2010, 09:08:24 AM
AH current has 2 states, intact, and failed, nothing inbetween. With the new damage model they'd be able to have several states. Intact, 25% damaged, 50% damaged, 75% damaged, and failed. Now apply that to something like a wingtip that has been shot at.

So you could have reduced airflow because of the holes. You could have structural members that are still there, but ready to snap at any increased pressure. So the next time you force it into a 5g turn it goes snap.

Now THAT's excactly what I wanted to hear. The thing that bugged me most about AHs damage model was its binary nature - on or off. Either you were running a perfectly fine, factory fresh system (engine, elevator, whatnot) or it was totally broken. I don't know if IL2s damage modeling was anywhere closer to real thing but the slowly decreasing power output of a damaged engine made nursing home a shot up plane a real challenge - or the missing lift and increased drag of a holed wing as an other example. Don't understand me wrong I do not want the same kind of damage modeling but a fine differentation of damage state sounds like a true revelation to me. I hope the WW2 birds will also profit from that initially. Maybe this will make small caliber fire more worthwhile. As in not destroying a system but mke it less efficient.!  :x
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: Mano on February 18, 2010, 06:46:52 PM
The new damage model will include pieces flying off of your plane
when certain critical parts sustain damage.

If your melon is hit..................then your melon flies off as well.

 :neener: :neener:
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 18, 2010, 06:57:59 PM
Well AckAck it is several months now since I heard HT talking about this at the con.

With that caveat

As I remember a lot of it was stuff like.
AH current has 2 states, intact, and failed, nothing inbetween. With the new damage model they'd be able to have several states. Intact, 25% damaged, 50% damaged, 75% damaged, and failed. Now apply that to something like a wingtip that has been shot at.

So you could have reduced airflow because of the holes. You could have structural members that are still there, but ready to snap at any increased pressure. So the next time you force it into a 5g turn it goes snap.

I think they were also  increasing the # of damage points in a plane. And thats just one possible example.

You won't necessarily "know" how much more your plane can take if you've been shot up.
Where now you pretty much do. As long as you have control surfaces, engine thrust, and lift, you can continue to fly and fight.

Same plane in same situation under the new model had best be trying to get out, and get home.
As something may fail at any point that will screw the pooch.

But we'll have a better idea once he gets the bugs out and we can play with the WWI birds.

If that in a nutshell is how the new damage model works then I am going to be a very happy person when it goes live.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: Krupinski on February 18, 2010, 07:01:31 PM
If that in a nutshell is how the new damage model works then I am going to be a very happy person when it goes live.


ack-ack

Definitly a +1  :x
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: Motherland on February 18, 2010, 07:03:05 PM
If that in a nutshell is how the new damage model works then I am going to be a very happy person when it goes live.


ack-ack
+2
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: mensa180 on February 18, 2010, 09:13:15 PM
+9001
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: Guppy35 on February 18, 2010, 09:53:14 PM
Are you suggesting there will be even better ways for me to wreck my 38G?  I've worked so hard to get to the point I could wreck it right to the edge and beyond.  The thought of more options....my heart.....arghhhhhhhhhh :old:
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: Soulyss on February 18, 2010, 10:03:05 PM
Are you suggesting there will be even better ways for me to wreck my 38G?  I've worked so hard to get to the point I could wreck it right to the edge and beyond.  The thought of more options....my heart.....arghhhhhhhhhh :old:

 :lol
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: CAP1 on February 18, 2010, 10:42:30 PM
This is my small pond, go fishing somewhere else!  :neener:

But seriously, I'm interested in knowing how the new damage model is going to work. 


ack-ack

bullet hits plane plane breaks.

if it's my plane, it also gets pilot wound.
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: jdbecks on February 19, 2010, 12:19:55 PM
As longs as I still can tatorise people with one shot with my 108  :devil que evil laugh " MUAHAHAHHA"


that sounds very impressive Ghosth, I am quite looking forward to it...that will also mean a few dings at 800 out could lead you to some serious trouble..or might prevent that mustang/tyhpoon from running away.

carry on the good work HTC  :aok
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: TnDep on February 19, 2010, 01:24:33 PM

As longs as I still can tatorise people with one shot with my 109  :devil que evil laugh " MUAHAHAHHA"


that sounds very impressive Ghosth, I am quite looking forward to it...that will also mean a few dings at 800 out could lead you to some serious trouble..or might prevent that mustang/tyhpoon from running away.

carry on the good work HTC  :aok

Fixed  Ya I'm curious to see the difference or changes myself I wonder How many people will be in there the first night it launches
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: Shuffler on February 19, 2010, 03:22:26 PM
It'll probably be packed. At least for the first month or two.
Title: Re: Information on new damage model
Post by: CptTrips on February 19, 2010, 03:27:32 PM
It'll probably be packed. At least for the first month or two.


I bet it will consistently average larger numbers than the AVA, EW,MW arenas combined.  At least in prime-time.

Wab