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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: CptTrips on February 23, 2010, 05:03:09 PM

Title: Interesting article on WWI fighter performance
Post by: CptTrips on February 23, 2010, 05:03:09 PM


http://home.comcast.net/~clipper-108/AIAAPaper2005-119.pdf (http://home.comcast.net/~clipper-108/AIAAPaper2005-119.pdf)

Only about 8 pg. Has some good comparrision of some of the planes we will be flying........in two weeks.


 :bolt:,
Wab
Title: Re: Interesting article on WWI fighter performance
Post by: FLS on February 23, 2010, 05:10:08 PM
Thanks Wabbit, nice find.
Title: Re: Interesting article on WWI fighter performance
Post by: CptTrips on February 23, 2010, 05:34:13 PM
The comment I found most intriuging was:

Quote
The theoretical speeds for the fastest and tightest turns for these aircraft fall BELOW the stall speeds.  Therefore, the maximum turn rate and tightest turn is calculated at the stall speed in a turn.

Thats wierd.

And from the data I think its pretty much going to be a DVII arena.  :t

:confused:,
Wab
Title: Re: Interesting article on WWI fighter performance
Post by: FLS on February 23, 2010, 05:52:38 PM
I've read that all the DVII's were supposed to be destroyed after the war because they were so dangerous. I never understood that but it sounds like a typical political response.
Title: Re: Interesting article on WWI fighter performance
Post by: oakranger on February 23, 2010, 05:55:53 PM
WOW, that is interesting reading. 
Title: Re: Interesting article on WWI fighter performance
Post by: CptTrips on February 23, 2010, 06:14:23 PM

If there are any wiz kids out there, I'd love to see a table comparision of the different stall speeds in a turn i.e.
EQ(12)

I've looked at it but here are a bunch of squiggly symbols there.  I think I need a decoder ring.

"b..u.y..m..o.r..e..o.v..a.l.. t..i..n...e..."

 :huh,
Wab

[Edit]
Never mind Ima goof.  You'd need the raw values to plug in.


Title: Re: Interesting article on WWI fighter performance
Post by: LLogann on February 23, 2010, 06:49:06 PM
Nice Read AKW.........    :salute
Title: Re: Interesting article on WWI fighter performance
Post by: Digr1 on February 23, 2010, 08:17:57 PM
I've read that all the DVII's were supposed to be destroyed after the war because they were so dangerous. I never understood that but it sounds like a typical political response.

at the end of the war germany was demanded to turn over thier planes to the Allies. But most commanders crashed landed them to destroy them instead of giving them to the english or french
Title: Re: Interesting article on WWI fighter performance
Post by: maddafinga on February 23, 2010, 08:25:34 PM
If there are any wiz kids out there, I'd love to see a table comparision of the different stall speeds in a turn i.e.
EQ(12)

I've looked at it but here are a bunch of squiggly symbols there.  I think I need a decoder ring.

"b..u.y..m..o.r..e..o.v..a.l.. t..i..n...e..."

 :huh,
Wab

[Edit]
Never mind Ima goof.  You'd need the raw values to plug in.




Great reference!  I love that movie!

I have no real input to the thread.  I didn't care at all about the ww1 stuff, but I'm beginning to be won over and get excited about trying it. 
Title: Re: Interesting article on WWI fighter performance
Post by: FLS on February 23, 2010, 08:40:45 PM

at the end of the war germany was demanded to turn over thier planes to the Allies. But most commanders crashed landed them to destroy them instead of giving them to the english or french

Thanks Digr I probably remembered it wrong.
Title: Re: Interesting article on WWI fighter performance
Post by: Ruah on February 24, 2010, 12:20:21 AM
S.E5 or Camel vs. DVII is going to be the 'late war' fights for WWI - the DVII is by far the coolest plane in WWI, but the Neiuport series, when they come, will also be fun.  Its going to take time to build a proper planeset for WWI - which is why I will stick to RoF for my WWI fix for the time being or untill the WWI planeset gets large enough to actually challange D.VII's clear supremacy.
Title: Re: Interesting article on WWI fighter performance
Post by: TheRapier on February 24, 2010, 07:18:05 PM
The DVII was specifically called out in the Treaty of Versailles to be specifically destroyed (first time for any aircraft).
Title: Re: Interesting article on WWI fighter performance
Post by: Ruah on February 25, 2010, 12:43:28 AM
quoted from the terms:

 IV. - Surrender in good condition by the German Armies of the following equipment:-
          5,000 guns (2,500 heavy, 2,500 field).
          25,000 machine guns.
          3,000 trench mortars.
          1,700 aeroplanes (fighters, bombers - firstly all D.7's and night-bombing machines).

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/firstworldwar/transcripts/aftermath/armistice_terms.htm

Title: Re: Interesting article on WWI fighter performance
Post by: TnDep on February 25, 2010, 09:38:16 AM
Thank you for the info.  :aok I've already started reading it you know what I'm looking forward the most is flying these in the koth I think that will be a blast.   :x
Title: Re: Interesting article on WWI fighter performance
Post by: Vulcan on February 25, 2010, 03:04:39 PM
I'll be interested to see how torque is modelled in planes like the camel with regards to control inputs.
Title: Re: Interesting article on WWI fighter performance
Post by: maxy on February 25, 2010, 05:54:41 PM
it will be interesting to see how many people will rip the wings off these rag covered crates "cant wait"
Title: Re: Interesting article on WWI fighter performance
Post by: Saurdaukar on February 25, 2010, 05:57:42 PM
I'll be interested to see how torque is modelled in planes like the camel with regards to control inputs.

As am I.

Admittedly, my interest in the WWI arena is only mild; but I am hoping that the planes are extraordinarily difficult to fly at 100% effectiveness.  A super-steep learning curve would be a fine element, IMO.
Title: Re: Interesting article on WWI fighter performance
Post by: BnZs on February 25, 2010, 09:38:14 PM
The theoretical speeds for the fastest and tightest turns for these aircraft fall BELOW the stall speeds.  Therefore, the maximum turn rate and tightest turn is calculated at the stall speed in a turn.

This simply cannot be correct.
Title: Re: Interesting article on WWI fighter performance
Post by: CptTrips on February 25, 2010, 09:48:10 PM
This simply cannot be correct.

That was my reaction.  Still can't wrap my head around what that means.  I'd love to see some other data/sources.

Regards,
Wab
Title: Re: Interesting article on WWI fighter performance
Post by: BnZs on February 25, 2010, 09:52:22 PM
Right...highest rate of turn occurs at the minimum speed that the airplane can pull max allowable Gs, so I haven't the foggiest what this is referring to.
Title: Re: Interesting article on WWI fighter performance
Post by: FLS on February 25, 2010, 10:57:01 PM
That was my reaction.  Still can't wrap my head around what that means.  I'd love to see some other data/sources.

Regards,
Wab

I believe you can think of it as an explanation of why you can turn faster and tighter in a relaxed realism arena where you don't stall.
Title: Re: Interesting article on WWI fighter performance
Post by: Charge on February 26, 2010, 03:25:49 AM
"The DVII was specifically called out in the Treaty of Versailles to be specifically destroyed (first time for any aircraft)."

They obviously figured out a way to go around this clause...  ;)

From Wiki:

The United States evaluated 142 captured examples.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fokker_D.VII

Thats a mighty evaluation program.  :D

-C+
Title: Re: Interesting article on WWI fighter performance
Post by: wetrat on February 26, 2010, 05:58:55 PM
Is it strange that I was more interested in the formulas in that pdf than I was any actual information about these planes?  :uhoh