Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Zuum on February 24, 2010, 01:38:42 PM
-
This short clip says it all.http://www.rubricum.com/files/toughbuff.ahf (http://www.rubricum.com/files/toughbuff.ahf) There is no proper modelling for damages caused by massive projectiles.
First pass is successful with 4-5 hits on engines and body. The second pass is pain. I counted 10 hits at least...that buff hardly damaged at all.
Just to keep that in mind, here is the IRL-version of one single MK108 shot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPWlYhfhLrI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPWlYhfhLrI)
Comments?
-
My favorite is the Granity. The Frozen Gaboo comes in a close second.
<S>
-
THis a tried and true complaint, there is a 30 page thread around here somewhere with Tater duds and damage gripes......
-
yep 37mm yak rounds do this too on occasion.
-
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,258664.0.html
-
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,258664.0.html
And this bug report was filed too..
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,281521.0.html
-
Small taters. I hit a lanc in the wingroot with a punkin' from a 25h....had to shoot him again to make the wing fall off :furious. Until the bug(s) are fixed, live with it or don't fly spud-chuckers i guess. :headscratch:
-
I'm not saying there isn't a problem.... But I'm also not saying there is one......
The only thing I will say.....
Hit Sprites DO NOT count as anything other than possible contact to target.
I think anyways............. :headscratch:
BUT..... To make an accurate test somebody needs to go offline and film some setups with the tater. That way lag is out of the equation.
-
I'm not saying there isn't a problem.... But I'm also not saying there is one......
The only thing I will say.....
Hit Sprites DO NOT count as anything other than possible contact to target.
I think anyways............. :headscratch:
BUT..... To make an accurate test somebody needs to go offline and film some setups with the tater. That way lag is out of the equation.
Is there an easter egg to enable a local lan fight using AH where lag is less than a 1ms? This could also help with the issue.
-
AGREED............. Bring back LAN play!!!
Is there an easter egg to enable a local lan fight using AH where lag is less than a 1ms? This could also help with the issue.
But to answer your query........ no. :cry
-
Hit Sprites DO NOT count as anything other than possible contact to target.
It a thread some time ago...one of the HTC employee's (not sure which, so not guessing) said that a hit sprite was a registered hit...on the guy getting hit. I do not have the time to dig up the thread...I am sure somebody could.
-
:huh ..... Heck, you're right.... I was thinking about that other thread from way back about the size of sprites and how to tell the diff between .303's / .50's / 20mm and so on........ And HTC (not sure who either) stated that the sprites cannot tell you which ammo did the damage.
It a thread some time ago...one of the HTC employee's (not sure which, so not guessing) said that a hit sprite was a registered hit...on the guy getting hit. I do not have the time to dig up the thread...I am sure somebody could.
:salute
-
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,156044.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,156044.0.html)
think it is page 4 or 5, hitech talks about this...
difference now is (I think) that the other thread started by grizz has a few films showing 30mm hits on planes...with no apparent damage...the thread in the link above didnt have anyone post film.
-
Everyone does remember HiTech is reworking the damage model for the next release? Something about increasing the number of damage points.
Last week I flew an offline experiment that is easy for any of you to duplicate. I set ammo to 10x then upped a K4. My goal was to fly in-line behind the cons 75- 200yd back with full zoom to watch the damage from firing one 30mm at a time.
B24 - I began at the wing tips working in starting from the left. Until I hit between the two engines only pieces like ailerons fell off with football size flashes. When the outer wing panel with engine fell off the inner engine or wing might begin burning. If you hit just behind the inner engine on top of the wing you get a fire. I changed to the right wing tip with the same results. Because the fire and smoke from both sides remaining wing stubs were obscuring my view at 75d-200d I then used a single 30mm to break off each wing stub clearing the fire and smoke. Using single shots I dismantled the tail section. Single shots broke off the rudders and stabilisers. Then single shots broke each half of the remaining rudder and stabiliser "H" from the fuselage. After placing 5 single shots into the aft body section behind the wing root with no visible damage, I placed one round into the wing root exploding the B24 fuselage. By working the aircraft with single shots it seems you can map the current damage points.
P51 - Working from wing tips in, ailerons fall off then either a wheel assembly or flap falls off or the wing snaps off. The rudder and stabiliser break off easily with single shots. The aft fuselage section absorbs rounds. Hit forward into the wing root and the P51 explodes.
190D9 - Similar wing damage to the 51 but you have to be much more precise in shot placement. Almost seems like hits don't register unless you hit very specific small areas on the wing. Tail section and aft fuselage the same as the 51, but again your shots need to be much more precise. A single 30mm into and forward of the wing root explodes the 190D9. Cutting the D9 apart one 30mm at a time required very precise placement apposed to the B24 and P51.
P38 - Working from the wing tips in you had to be very precise and land hits on the surface planes of the wings not into the trailing edges. Ailerons would fall off to a single will placed 30mm. The outside wing panel would fall off if hit on center just outside of the boom. The booms did not destroy hitting in the aft. The tail section needed precise shot placements onto surfaces, not edges. Hitting the booms in the forward section most often caused flame and smoke. Hitting the inner wing sections and pilot pod on center cause the P38 to explode.
-
Perhaps this subject is what inspired the new upcoming damage system.
-
The 4 50's on the Brewster are far more deadly than this games 30mm's :P
-
I have LIT UP planes with 30mm's and nothing litup the front of a B25h and nothing (then we both pulled up to avoid the ho,he hit my belly and it didn't end well for either of us.) :cry
-
The 4 50's on the Brewster are far more deadly than this games 30mm's :P
Funny...but I would agree with that, but I also think they are too good. I took 1 ping to my wing from a Brew and it fell off.
The only problem with the tator dud problem.....is nobody from HTC has commented on what it actually is causing the problem. That youtube film from the OP should be enough proof that almost no fighter in the game can take a 30mm hit and still be flying fine. Ive noticed that 109s take tator hits and just get oil/rad leaks alot :salute
-
Do my test with .50 cal and instead of one shot at a time with a 30mm, aim for the same spots and hold 1-2 sec at a time for each spot with .50 cal. Bet the .50 will be much more dangerous per burst than the single 30mm round. Think in terms of critical failure spots and dispersion along the surfaces of the wings, tail surfaces, wing root and side of cockpit. Think about the vaugaries of Internet connections to numbers of projectile hits that can be transmitted per UDP packet in ONE SECOND.
100-200 .50cal per second over the Internet have a better chance of a pilot kill than a single 30mm badly aimed.
-
Didn't have any problem killing betty last night with them though but they where mostly well placedshots or she ran into a tree :D
-
Funny...but I would agree with that, but I also think they are too good. I took 1 ping to my wing from a Brew and it fell off.
Was flying around in one last night... Didn't seem any different than any of the other .50 birds.
The only problem with the tator dud problem.....is nobody from HTC has commented on what it actually is causing the problem. That youtube film from the OP should be enough proof that almost no fighter in the game can take a 30mm hit and still be flying fine. Ive noticed that 109s take tator hits and just get oil/rad leaks alot :salute
-
Seems like 7/10 of tater hits to a YAK is a friggin engine hit. But I suspect that is more with the design of the YAK than a bug.
-
Is Fuzing time part of the issue?
Cannon shells, which explode on impact have two factors that may come into play here. The first is fuzing time. A cannon round needs a certain amount of time after being fired to arm itself or it won't explode. If fired from too close a range the round would default to a projectile with the impact engergy of it's half its mass times its velocity squared. For the 30mm 90RB German round this is 42 Kilo-Joules. For camparison the Browning 50 caliber is between 14 and 18 kilo-joules. So an unexploding 30mm would have the impact engergy of about two-three .50 cal rounds.
The second factor is impact angle. If the round hits and too shallow an angle, even though armed, it may not explode due to the detonation mechanism not activating.
Any chance that he HTC models either or both of these effects?
-
i remember a pic of a 51 with a nice 30mm hole in one side and out the other of the tail. round didnt detonate.
-
Is Fuzing time part of the issue?
No. Fuzing delay is not modeled for guns. (Up a P-39 or 109K, drive it to a wall and fire your cannon ;) )
-
i remember a pic of a 51 with a nice 30mm hole in one side and out the other of the tail. round didnt detonate.
That projectile must have been sabotaged by TODT-workers or by italian trade union :rofl :rofl :rofl
-
That projectile must have been sabotaged by TODT-workers or by italian trade union :rofl :rofl :rofl
actually, funny you should bring sabotage up, toward the end of the war, the Germans were using a lot of slave labor. The slaves/concentration camp victims would frequently try to sabotage construction.
-
Nothing wrong with 30mm damage when I'm shooting 4 of them. :bolt:
-
actually, funny you should bring sabotage up, toward the end of the war, the Germans were using a lot of slave labor. The slaves/concentration camp victims would frequently try to sabotage construction.
The sabotage was very risky business at that time. Some slaves could do that, some couldnt.
That was not the issue.
Anyway, the 1st thread is still here.
Anything other than american ammunition is not modeled properly by ballistic point of view.
I understand that most "players" are american. I understand that most of incomes of HTC are based by americans...
I understand that entertainment is entertainment. Still, You have a choice.
I dont understand that kind of a fanatic patriotism which seems to be a standard in AH-base.
HTC is washing the history clean.
The germans had their best inventions...They were so good that americans had to rush for them at the end of the 2nd WW.
Unluckily, americans didnt won the race. Russians sent the 1st man in space.
Is this comment understood as a provocation?
:rock :devil
-
Anything other than american ammunition is not modeled properly by ballistic point of view.
I understand that most "players" are american. I understand that most of incomes of HTC are based by americans...
I understand that entertainment is entertainment. Still, You have a choice.
I dont understand that kind of a fanatic patriotism which seems to be a standard in AH-base.
HTC is washing the history clean.
You have any facts to present?
-
Absolutely, no facts.
Just feelings :rofl :rofl :rofl
GEtting in to AH community is surrounded by feelings..... :x
Und, Lusche, bitte nicht uebertreiben mit mir. Ich bin ja ziemlich gut und blasiert buerger.
Oder...zum wenigsten, Ich treibe so.
Und, lache ueber mich!
Guten deutsch? Nicht?
-
The 30mm is amazingly huge and devastating 1 to 2 hits should be the end of an airplane check out these vids. Almost like bombs going off
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riqu8hmPHd0&feature=related - A10 nice vid show's rounds up close and them killing tanks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JiPMQik_P4 - guy should have jumped off the bridge
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIdRwQ5G97s - this one look at the shells hitting the ground and how big they are
-
The 30mm is amazingly huge and devastating 1 to 2 hits should be the end of an airplane check out these vids. Almost like bombs going off
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riqu8hmPHd0&feature=related - A10 nice vid show's rounds up close and them killing tanks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JiPMQik_P4 - guy should have jumped off the bridge
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIdRwQ5G97s - this one look at the shells hitting the ground and how big they are
The mk108 cannon of WW2 fired a much different round than modern varients.
The mk108 round was a 90mm case.
The GAU-8 Avenger cannon (A-10) fires a 173mm case round....almost twice as long. (3500 ft/s)
The mk108 round was a low velocity round (1770 ft/s). If you look at one the case is shorter than the projectile...it almost looks like a rifle grenade of today. THe GAU-8 round has 3500 ft/s.
BUT....I agree that there "could" be a modeling issue..perhaps having to do with "hit boxes" in the AH damage model.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MK_108_cannon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MK_108_cannon)
"Testing verified that the autocannon was well-suited to this role, requiring on average just four hits with high-explosive ammunition to bring down a heavy bomber such as a B-17 Flying Fortress or B-24 Liberator and a single hit to down a fighter. In comparison, the otherwise excellent 20 mm MG 151/20 required an average of 25 hits to down a B-17."
-
rgr Agent the velocity well definently make a differnence, wasn't really paying attention to the details :D you make a very valid point
-
Absolutely, no facts.
Just feelings :rofl :rofl :rofl
GEtting in to AH community is surrounded by feelings..... :x
Und, Lusche, bitte nicht uebertreiben mit mir. Ich bin ja ziemlich gut und blasiert buerger.
Oder...zum wenigsten, Ich treibe so.
Und, lache ueber mich!
Guten deutsch? Nicht?
said from a companion of Germany from the beginning of Operation Barbarossa 1941 to separate peace with the Soviet Union in 1944 sorry to say it but Finns got off easy at end of ww2...is this provocative? :rolleyes:
-
The sabotage was very risky business at that time. Some slaves could do that, some couldnt.
That was not the issue.
Anyway, the 1st thread is still here.
Anything other than american ammunition is not modeled properly by ballistic point of view.
I understand that most "players" are american. I understand that most of incomes of HTC are based by americans...
I understand that entertainment is entertainment. Still, You have a choice.
I dont understand that kind of a fanatic patriotism which seems to be a standard in AH-base.
HTC is washing the history clean.
The germans had their best inventions...They were so good that americans had to rush for them at the end of the 2nd WW.
Unluckily, americans didnt won the race. Russians sent the 1st man in space.
Is this comment understood as a provocation?
:rock :devil
Is this comment understood as a provocation?
Not only a provocation but also insulting and pure bs.
I read this thread, but with out an ah film you have no idea what is really happening in that shot. The reason people support us, is that when some post a reall issue, with real information, and not some hopeless childlike whine like this post we look into it.
But with statements like yours above, you loose all credibility, and hence anything you state about bugs stats being view by us as just another whine.
All this could have been resolved in about 10 min if you would have or will post a ah film.
And also you post this in the General forum instead of the bug forum, again showing you are not really interested in solving an issue, in which case you would post it in the bug forum along with an ah film.
HiTech
-
Dear Hitech... the AH-film, you ment, is as downloadable file in the 1st message. Go and get it. Many others have done that. There You can see the issue...
:salute
Otherwise...those smileys shoud tell something. Donīt get it too serious :D