Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: -ammo- on October 07, 2001, 04:57:00 PM
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Well, HTC said they would add some weight to the D11. It now is outclassed in the lo-speed handling by its later model brethren here in AH. I guess I just didnt expect to see that much of a difference. My jug don't get any respect.
[ 10-07-2001: Message edited by: -ammo- ]
[ 10-07-2001: Message edited by: -ammo- ]
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So you noticed a difference between the 1.07 and 1.08 P-47D-11? I haven't flown that one much (I actually prefer the D30), but it is only 300 pounds, right?
How exactly does is fly differently now?
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Lol only 300lbs! like that shouldnt make much difference?
of course it will!
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It wallows like a pig, under 200 MPH and trying to manuever hard. Try a rolling scissor in this thing and if you are on the deck, you are in danger of augering, no room for recovery. What ever amou8nt of weight was added, it should not have developed the nasty stall it has now. I dont think its right. The D30 and the D25 has better lo-speed handling than it does, all of them should behave the same in this aspect..pretty much should be identical.
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I flew the D11 quite a bit. It was a spitbolt before that hated to stall and handled, well like no P47 ive ever flown in a sim. With all due respect ammo I think ur just not used to actually having to fly the D11 with care, because it was so easy before.
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respect in your post noted, appreciate that.
However I have flown the p-47's in this sim extensively from the outset. The D11 as it was prior to 1.08 fit well with what noted pilots and authors had to say about it. most notably..Bob Johnson. Fly the thing now, fly the D30 and the D11 and you will see what I am saying unless you just want to disagree for the sake of it. It doesnt handle well at all.
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LUFTWHINER!!!! oops... Hogwhiner ?
;)
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Originally posted by Staga:
LUFTWHINER!!!! oops... Hogwhiner ?
;)
I am trying my best not to sound like a whiner, but do want to express my thoughts. I prefer the D11 because it is my squad colors.
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The Razorback was for more directionally & laterally stable than the bubbletop, which should make the D-11 alot easier to handle.
This was somewhat rectified on the D-30 (and on some D-25's) with the added dorsal fin.
Daff
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Does the lack of a paddle prob make a difference at lower speeds? It should make a diff on the climb..correct? If it makes more lift then this would affect the planes ablity to keep itself in the air while slower?
xBAT
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Ammo, I'm not sure why, but the new -1 Corsair also has some nasty stall characteristics in comparison to the later and heavier -1D, -1C, and I expect the -4 but I haven't flown it yet.
I do have to agree with Grunherz that the D11 from the previous version seemed too good compared to everything I have ever seen, read, or experienced in other sims, about this aircraft.
And just smile at the Jugwhiner comments, they're just having fun with you :)
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-1 doesnt have some sort of stablizing feature the newer Hogs recieved I think? More of a dorsal or something? Cant remember what...
xBAT
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Originally posted by Vermillion:
And just smile at the Jugwhiner comments, they're just having fun with you :)
And you are right of course, I have dealt out my share of Lwobble remarks.
However on the topic of the P-47's, the D11 should not be anmy worse than the later model jugs in low speed handling. Some of how HTC and other designers model the FM has to be speculation. They strive to use all the data they can get but actuall data on how an AC behaves in certain situations just isnt available. They do the best they can. And I dont proclaim to know much at all on how they do it.
As far as how we feel the jug should handle, perceptions are like opinions, everyone has them. Bob Johnson, Hub Zemke, Bud Mahurin, etc praised the P-47 and never described it as a wallowing pig. The 56th FG was the highest scoring FG in the ETO and the War at the end when it was tallied up..all in a P-47. I like to think that it would be somewhat competitive in AH.
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Ammo, if the average fight in AH was between 20k-30k, then you would see the Jug shine the way it did in the war.
But with most fights below 10k, your beloved plane won't ever show its true "strengths" :( Same with the P38.
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S!
The problem is we have the D11 without the Paddle blade propellor.
The D11 saw almost no combat without the paddle blade.
Yes, it came from the factory WITHOUT, but it was re-equipped with it almost immediately.
Which means we don`t have the plane which Bob Johnson and Gabreskic etc. talked about.
D11 also seems to have be messed about with in terms of its general handling.
It is NOT the plane it should be.
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S!
D11 should accelerate, climb and sustain turn MUCH better.
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I am a dyed in the wool JugWhiner :). The most fun I ever had in here was with the D-11 before it was porked. Now I thought that all that was going to be changed was the 300lb weight deficit (sp?). That didn't worry me too much, 300lbs is a very small percentage of 13000 or so. Ammo loadout varies more than that or about that depending on choice. Evidently more got changed than just the wieght though.
What I find disheartening is the fact that people that don't really care to fly it much, and there are those that fly it but not consistently, had to make a point to whine about it till it ruined the fun of those that did fly it regularly.
I am back to the D-25 and it handles much better than the D-11 now and that shouldn't be. The D-11 was lighter and aerodynamicaly more stable and should be the better low alt flyer.
I hope all you luftwhiners out there got your wish. Chritmas came early this year didn't it? It's not like it was the dominating ac out there or one that couldn't be dispatched fairly easily with a properly flown luftwhinermobile.
(http://home.att.net/~lmluper/markatsig.jpg) (http://www.jump.net/~cs3)
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Vermillion
The -1 Corsair did not have the spoiler on the right wing like all later Corsairs. The spoiler was added to make sure the wings stall at the same time. Stall a -1 and it rolls over on its back.
This is the way it should be, the later corsairs haven’t picked this up as far as I can tell.
Te term ensign eliminator for the F4U corsair came from the -1 model.
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Well, just did a quick offline test and the D-11 stalls at 100mph and the D-30 and 105mph. (Clean, 25% fuel, 1000feet)
Daff
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The only thing that changed was the basic weight of the plane. The exact weight change is (425-267)*8*0.31. Those numbers represent the standard ammo load versus the normal load. Previously, normal gross weight was calculated with an overload condition.
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So if they loaded the small ammo loadout, they should not notice any change in performance from the high ammo loadout P-47d11 in version 1.07?
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My apologies Pyro, I thought you all had done more than the weight thingy. Gonna have to try it with 6*267...will get 165lbs of the 392 back :).
8*425 = 3400 rnds = 1054lbs
8*267 = 2136 rnds = 662lbs
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392lbs
So if you were flying with 3400 rnds before and started using 2136 rnds then you would be back at the weight it was before. If you were flying with 2136 rounds (like I was) then you can only lighten it by about 165lbs going to 6 guns with 267 rnds per gun.
(http://home.att.net/~lmluper/markatsig.jpg) (http://www.jump.net/~cs3)
[ 10-10-2001: Message edited by: Mark Luper ]
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S!
Still don't have the Paddle blade in this plane when 90% of its combat time was flown with it.
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pyro, would it be possible to implement the good prop on this beautiful AC? ;) I put up some pretty good evidence in a prior post about thsi subject, as did Buzz.
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Did the P-47 have a REALLY crappy six view in real life as it does in AH? I tried flying it some tonight and you are right ammo, it likes to "wallow". Not at all what I expected and I really cannot handle that six view.
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Guess there was a reason why they started to use bubble-canopy.
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actually yes the view wasnt that great before the D25 and the bubble canopy arrived. The AH view is probably much better than what the Fighter pilots in WW2 enjoyed :)
But yes, i dont think the FM for the D11 is right.
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The six view on the razorback P47s is absolutly great for teaching you to fly paranoid - keep checking your six becase he IS back there.
Most guys overlook the fact that the Jug's biggest blind area is its belly, especially in a climb.
Fly with a wingman and fly smart.