Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: RTHolmes on February 25, 2010, 11:03:45 AM
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A trainer at the SeaWorld park in Orlando, Florida, has died after being attacked by a killer whale.
Witnesses said the orca had jumped and grabbed Dawn Brancheau by the waist from a poolside platform before dragging her underwater.
Guests were evacuated while fire crews tried to rescue the 40-year-old, but they were unable to revive her.
The killer whale, Tilikum, was also reportedly involved in the death of a female trainer in Canada in 1991.
Other orcas were also said to have attacked trainers at SeaWorld parks in 2006 and 2004.
Full article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8535618.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8535618.stm)
how could this possibly happen? well I think the clue is in the name - Killer Whale. while any death is tragic for the family and friends I cant help but think "good on ya" whenever a predator which has been caged and treated like a performing clown finally gets some.
just my 2d :)
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Killer whale 1 - Trainer 0
In all seriousness it is sad that she died. However she did die doing what I presume she loved. This is just another example of wild animals being wild. The poor whale will probably be killed now as this is the 3rd death this particular whale has caused. So we will kill him for doing what nature intended him to do. Sad all around.
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Supposedly there were two other occasions or deaths this whale was involved in.....
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Are you telling me Killer Whales are supposed to attack people? I thought they just flipped out of the water through hoops, ate fish out of human hands and swam circles in a small tank to delight people.
Reminds me of the brief dialog between the two lead characters in the movie 'Crimson Tide'.
Capt. Ramsey: Speaking of horses did you ever see those Lipizzaner stallions.
Hunter: What?
Capt. Ramsey: From Portugal. The Lipizzaner stallions. The most highly trained horses in the world. They're all white?
Hunter: Yes, sir.
Capt. Ramsey: "Yes, sir" you're aware they're all white or "Yes, sir" you've seen them?
Hunter: Yes, sir I've seen them. Yes, sir I was aware that they're are all white. They are not from Portugal; they're from Spain and at birth, they're not white; they're black. Sir.
Capt. Ramsey: I didn't know that. But they are from Portugal.
[Chuckling]
Capt. Ramsey: Some of the things they do, uh, defy belief. Their training program is simplicity itself. You just stick a cattle prod up their bellybutton and you can get a horse to deal cards.
[Chuckles]
Capt. Ramsey: Simple matter of voltage.
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how could this possibly happen? well I think the clue is in the name - Killer Whale. while any death is tragic for the family and friends I cant help but think "good on ya" whenever a predator which has been caged and treated like a performing clown finally gets some.
just my 2d :)
They received the name "killer whale" because they occasionally prey on other whales. Not because they are inclined to be indiscriminate killers.
Killer whale 1 - Trainer 0
In all seriousness it is sad that she died. However she did die doing what I presume she loved. This is just another example of wild animals being wild. The poor whale will probably be killed now as this is the 3rd death this particular whale has caused. So we will kill him for doing what nature intended him to do. Sad all around.
The history of the whale in question is 3-0; some research before posting makes you look less ignorant.
All in all, taking an undomesticated animal and teaching it a pattern of behavior that generates a reward does not preclude that animal from acting in a manner consistant with its evolutionary inclination and threat/response directive. yes, SeaWorld should have acted in a more proactive manner to this particular whale, but if we (humans) did not desire to see animals act in particular ways, then there would be no profit motive for SeaWorld to train killer whales for our bemusement.
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The whales and other marine wildlife at seaworld are not just there for our amusement. They perform for our amusement so that funds can raised to support more studies on the creatures. Scientist regularly depend on information delved from studies on these and other wildlife at Seaworld and other parks.
Kids and adults alike learn alot from going to a show at Seaworld.
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They received the name "killer whale" because they occasionally prey on other whales. Not because they are inclined to be indiscriminate killers.
err they are carnivores, apex predators and extremely efficient killers. they feed on anything from larger fish species through seals, walrus and other whales. they are extremely smart and aggressive predators, hence "killer." you should see footage of them hunting in packs, herding seals into the shallows and risking beaching themselves for the kill. pains me to see such magnificent animals paraded infront of crowds doing tricks.
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I liked the CNN report about it last night and repeatedly brought up how this particular whale was involved in other 'assaults' against trainers and I think at least one more death. The tone of the report was very ominous, like we were dealing with a serial killer whale that preyed on trainers and how some system failed that allowed this dangerous Orcinus Orca back in the swimming tank to kill again.
(http://www.golivewire.com/forums/img.cgi?i=60393)
ack-ack
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Dont tell the Japanese!!!!
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It's a lie! It was cows and chickens!
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It's a lie! It was cows and chickens!
Great job son, now the Japanese are normal like us. Best last line of any show, ever.
Anyway, to the matter at hand yea these things are going to happen from time to time. Any trainer who doesn't realize the inherent risk has a veil over his/her eyes, no matter how benign the creature.
Take this BBS. Most folks on here are probably relatively normal people in their natural habitats, but in the wonderful world of anonymous intarweb postings, they become something else entirely. Skuzzy surely understands this, and realizes the risks of his position. Someone has the herd the cats.
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Killer whale 1 - Trainer 0
In all seriousness it is sad that she died. However she did die doing what I presume she loved. This is just another example of wild animals being wild. The poor whale will probably be killed now as this is the 3rd death this particular whale has caused. So we will kill him for doing what nature intended him to do. Sad all around.
The history of the whale in question is 3-0; some research before posting makes you look less ignorant.
A little reading comprehension will make you look less ignorant also. I simply stated in this instance the whale won, but this is his 3rd total. Thanks for playing, try again.
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Free Willie...
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Not for nothing, but it's species is more Dolphin then Whale. Back to the hanging
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I liked the CNN report about it last night and repeatedly brought up how this particular whale was involved in other 'assaults' against trainers and I think at least one more death. The tone of the report was very ominous, like we were dealing with a serial killer whale that preyed on trainers and how some system failed that allowed this dangerous Orcinus Orca back in the swimming tank to kill again.
yup, thats exactly the impression I got from the reports ive seen :rolleyes:
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Are they going to try to kill this whale? If not, its time SeaWorld wakes up or Shamu will start to hunger on human prey once more. If they do kill it, GreenPeace will kill the manager and revive Shamu... :confused:... huh... yeah :cool:
Either way, Shamu wins :t
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to lighten the mood, heres a quick fishy musical interlude:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBMcvV8ASXc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBMcvV8ASXc)
:D
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Even Elephants in India that have been more or less domesticated for many century's every now and then just go over the edge and rampage, killing and wounding people.
Its a wild animal, and a dang smart one, and an apex predator.
You would never get me in the same tank with one. Watch from outside with awe and drool yes. Climb in with it, sorry, but my self preservation instinct kicks in right about there.
From what I've seen, heard, this particular animal has had issues in the past. Either release it to the wild, or put it out of its misery. It certainly can never be trusted.
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Supposedly there were two other occasions or deaths this whale was involved in.....
Yeah, the news said this particular whale was only used for splashing. It's sad when someone forgets their playing with a wild animal.
:salute to her and the family
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This whale was in Vancouver for many years and yes had been involved in "trainer accidents" before.He was sent to Florida for breeding purposes was was not to be use for "exhibition" purposes.
Why he was in the holding pen he was in is still unknown but his act upon the trainer was not agressive,it was a playfull behaviour he had developed and do to his size and strength it had become dangerous to be in or around the water with him.
He was just playing catch with the trainer,using the trainer as the ball! It was well known to all involved,someone just made a fatal mistake and saddly the animal is to blame!
:salute
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(http://lennstrand.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/free_willy-1.jpg)
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Orca video with a totally over the top commentary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BweCsUIBDa8
Commentary makes it borderline comedy.
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"killer rampage!" :rofl
very cool animals :aok
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It's a 12,000 pound animal. A human is going to loose big time even if it chooses to get only a little bit out of control.
Heck livestock can be lethal. Mass often wins. It's 2:42AM and I should probably go to bed.
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When I was 17 and taking Marine Biology in high school, I was offered the oppurtunity during spring break to work at Sea World in Orlando. I was placed in merchandising assigned to Shamu Stadium selling plush toys in-between shows.
Even being a temp for a week, the trainers always made time to answer any of our questions. The main question asked to them was are you afraid of being either squashed or accidentally caught in the whale's mouth? Everyone of them acknowledged these possible outcomes no different then asking any military airborne person about parachutes not deploying correctly or descending through tree branches too fast. The trainers work with the animals on a daily basis and it comes down to one thing. Trust.
I also was able to watch the practice sessions between newer trainers and experienced whales and experienced trainers and newer whales. These are the most dangerous times. Sometimes the animals become so caught up with the fun and excitement that they may swim underwater a little bit longer before rising to the surface to allow the trainer some air. The whales can be underwater for extreme lengths of time beyond human endurance. Sometimes the wetsuits can cause trainers to slip on the smooth surface of the whales.
Unfornutately, I wasn't allowed to swim with the whales. I would jump in the tank with right now if Sea World would let me. There is a lengthy process of paperwork and medical examinations before they let you and of course a certain amount of money involved. I did get to pet the whales all the time and stick my hand on their tongues. Those teeth are big.
One of the things the trainers told us was that the whales can distinguish between employees and guests clothing. We at first thouight that was a joke. Turns out they were not joking. One day, myself and another classmate were standing with our backs to the tank looking up at the stadium seating where the video cameras were positioned. It was a typical Florida day with a blue sky and no clouds. Then we felt a shower of rain strike us from above. We turned back to the tank and saw baby Namu still white and gray bobbing his head up and down after showering with us from his blowhole. The trainers said that he only did that to employees and not guests. Other baby Namus decide for themselves on that matter.
It is tragic that a trainer died. If there was an earlier interview conducted with her on the sunbject of accidental deaths. I'm very confident that a part of answer would be that the animal is truly not to be blamed or punished. She entered a career that she loved and knew the risks. She died doing what she loved and with the whales she loved. The relationship between the trainers and the whales are closer between human owners and dogs and cats.
Not to be humourous, many trainers do say that the time spent with the whales is often closer than spouses and teenage children. Whales won't make you sleep on the couch or play really loud stereo music.
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More people are killed by domestic dogs than killer whales.
I don't remember the first incident this whale was involved in, but the second incident a man snuck into SeaWorld in order to swim with the whales at night. They found him in the tank with bruises and cuts on him the next day.
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Just read that Sea World is going to keep Tellicum. Probably only for breeding purposes as originally intended though. Good to see that they didn't flip out and go Roy Schneider on him.
AAJagerX
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Unfornutately, I wasn't allowed to swim with the whales. I would jump in the tank with right now if Sea World would let me. There is a lengthy process of paperwork and medical examinations before they let you and of course a certain amount of money involved. I did get to pet the whales all the time and stick my hand on their tongues. Those teeth are big.
My youngest daughter did the interaction program at Seaworld San Antonio. Here she is with the baluga whales.
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q96/Shuff_photos/Picture041.jpg)
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q96/Shuff_photos/Picture040.jpg)
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So many witty comments spring to mind by those pictures, but i will let it go, think im getting soft, but hey dude, stop posting family pictures on the internet, for your own good.
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Doesn't hurt.... want to see some pics of a few guns :D
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the trainer broke the rules, <do not get in the water with this one>, the killer whale was just enforcing darwin's theory.
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Shuffler, your daughter's very lucky to have that experience. Thanks for the pictures. :salute
Living in Florida, I'm 7 miles from Blue Springs State Park but 2 miles as the crow flies. I often go there in winter time to see the manatees. I was swimming one time in the springs when the whistle blew from a lifeguard. He told all of us to make way for a manatee. State law forbids any interaction with the animals from a human initiative. If the animals swims toward you then just stay still and try not to get in its way. I was around 15 feet from the manatee when it swam by. A wild animal no matter how gentile it seems can turn agressive at any second. A manatee is many more times heavier than a human.
The sad part is looking at the history of all the tears and chunks of meat removed from the props of motring boats on each manatee. They may be an ugly sight. However, they are quite peaceful 99.9% of the time. I've seen video of a manatee being very agressive at another manatee. They are like rams butting heads. I wouldn't want to be caught between them in a fight.
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Doesn't hurt.... want to see some pics of a few guns :D
Best reply ever. :rofl :rofl :rofl
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err they are carnivores, apex predators and extremely efficient killers. they feed on anything from larger fish species through seals, walrus and other whales. they are extremely smart and aggressive predators, hence "killer."
Flat Wrong.
Orcinus orca was first commonly named " the Whale Killer" by fishermen. It was flipped to "Killer Whale" at some point. There has never been a successful predation by one on man. There have been a few Eskimos who reported being "stalked" on ice floes, but not attacked. They are apex predators, but even those concentrated on marine mammal predation have never looked at man as a prey item.
The problem with them is they view everything as a toy, including trainers. This particular whale "Tilicum" is also fond of being very rough with humans, and was used as a breed bull, not a performer.
Most likely, this accident will be trainer error in the end. It seems she was at the wrong place when the animals were being "shifted" prior to the upcoming show, and may have thought that "Tilicum" was already out of the main pool. In researching, it seems that she wasn't one of the trainers who worked at all with this whale.
If I can, I will find some pictures of a transient pod that I was amazed to run into off of Ft. Lauderdale a few years back on a blue water research dive. They were following a deep school of tuna in the gulf stream. We were at 95 feet in 1800 feet of water with 200+ feet of viz, watching a huge school of Tuna pass underneath at around 250 feet, turned and looked up to see 4 huge shadows coming down to us. Dumfounded isn't the word for our looks. A big male positioned between us and the rest of the pod of orcas, and slowed to almost a stop about 30 feet away, just observing us. We weren't that interesting, in the end, and they continued following the tuna.
(http://www.viovio.com/storage/users/60/1060/images/1239189/2nd%20Killer%20Whale.jpg)
Picture may have been from the same pod, taken in Barbados soon after we had run into them.
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Flat Wrong.
Orcinus orca was first commonly named " the Whale Killer" by fishermen. It was flipped to "Killer Whale" at some point. There has never been a successful predation by one on man. There have been a few Eskimos who reported being "stalked" on ice floes, but not attacked. They are apex predators, but even those concentrated on marine mammal predation have never looked at man as a prey item.
The problem with them is they view everything as a toy, including trainers. This particular whale "Tilicum" is also fond of being very rough with humans, and was used as a breed bull, not a performer.
Most likely, this accident will be trainer error in the end. It seems she was at the wrong place when the animals were being "shifted" prior to the upcoming show, and may have thought that "Tilicum" was already out of the main pool. In researching, it seems that she wasn't one of the trainers who worked at all with this whale.
If I can, I will find some pictures of a transient pod that I was amazed to run into off of Ft. Lauderdale a few years back on a blue water research dive. They were following a deep school of tuna in the gulf stream. We were at 95 feet in 1800 feet of water with 200+ feet of viz, watching a huge school of Tuna pass underneath at around 250 feet, turned and looked up to see 4 huge shadows coming down to us. Dumfounded isn't the word for our looks. A big male positioned between us and the rest of the pod of orcas, and slowed to almost a stop about 30 feet away, just observing us. We weren't that interesting, in the end, and they continued following the tuna.
(http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.viovio.com/storage/users/60/1060/images/1239189/2nd%2520Killer%2520Whale.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.viovio.com/travel/102000843&usg=__OM6zF_M1sNQjnRoJpYeTIoe8Fdk=&h=545&w=833&sz=393&hl=en&start=3&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=r9iXBjL58bb6kM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=144&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dkiller%2Bwhale%2Bbarbados%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Ds%26tbs%3Disch:1)
Picture may have been from the same pod, taken in Barbados soon after we had run into them.
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Flat Wrong.
Orcinus orca was first commonly named " the Whale Killer" by fishermen. It was flipped to "Killer Whale" at some point. There has never been a successful predation by one on man. There have been a few Eskimos who reported being "stalked" on ice floes, but not attacked. They are apex predators, but even those concentrated on marine mammal predation have never looked at man as a prey item.
The problem with them is they view everything as a toy, including trainers. This particular whale "Tilicum" is also fond of being very rough with humans, and was used as a breed bull, not a performer.
Most likely, this accident will be trainer error in the end. It seems she was at the wrong place when the animals were being "shifted" prior to the upcoming show, and may have thought that "Tilicum" was already out of the main pool. In researching, it seems that she wasn't one of the trainers who worked at all with this whale.
If I can, I will find some pictures of a transient pod that I was amazed to run into off of Ft. Lauderdale a few years back on a blue water research dive. They were following a deep school of tuna in the gulf stream. We were at 95 feet in 1800 feet of water with 200+ feet of viz, watching a huge school of Tuna pass underneath at around 250 feet, turned and looked up to see 4 huge shadows coming down to us. Dumfounded isn't the word for our looks. A big male positioned between us and the rest of the pod of orcas, and slowed to almost a stop about 30 feet away, just observing us. We weren't that interesting, in the end, and they continued following the tuna.
(http://www.viovio.com/storage/users/60/1060/images/1239189/2nd%20Killer%20Whale.jpg)
Picture may have been from the same pod, taken in Barbados soon after we had run into them. The hook in the dorsal fin indicates an offshore community.
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Flat Wrong.
:headscratch: which part of the quote is wrong? and I didnt suggest they hunt people, that would be dumb because we dont live in the sea ...
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What I fail to understand is this...
Early eye-witness reports were that the whale grabbed her around the midsection, then "thrashed her so wildly that her shoe was thrown off". Other reports had the whale swiming in circles in front of the tank's view windows, with the trainer in its mouth while people there screamed in terror and exited the area in panic.
Later reports hold that the whale grabbed her playfully by the ponytail and pulled her in. It was the trainer's fault that she lay on the training deck and had her pony tail dangling in the water. The official spokesman called the death tragic; the trainer was drowned accidentally.
The water in the tanks is cold, and there were trainers and staff on-hand at the time of the attack or accident. How long does a person have to be submerged in 50 degree water in order to be past resucitation? There is advanced lifesaving equipment on-hand with trained personell specifically to deal with water accidents...how do these trained personell witness a person being dragged into a tank and fail to rescue her? Is this a dodge by Sea World in order to avoid a lawsuit? Blame the trainer's actions instead of the park being liable for having a whale interacting with humans that has a history of violence against them? The whale was sold to Sea World under the provision that it be used only for breeding, not for shows...
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My youngest daughter did the interaction program at Seaworld San Antonio. Here she is with the baluga whales.
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q96/Shuff_photos/Picture041.jpg)
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q96/Shuff_photos/Picture040.jpg)
Still amazes me that you took them pics with your cell phone.
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Well a killer whale never killed nobody before besides having a killer whale killing a person in a Zoo is like a kid running around with a gun its gonna BLOW eventually.
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(http://i.imgur.com/WHIhV.jpg)
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:rofl
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:headscratch: which part of the quote is wrong? and I didnt suggest they hunt people, that would be dumb because we dont live in the sea ...
It was wrong in that your implication of their intelligence and hunting strategies pegged them for the name "Killer" Whale. The name originated from fishermen who called them the "Whale Killers" due to observations of pods hunting fully grown whales.
"Whale Killer" got flipped to "Killer Whale" at some point, even though it was well documented by then that Orcinus orca isn't even a whale....it is in the dolphin family ( Linnaeus correctly classified it Delphinus orca in 1758) Most cetacean scientists will shudder at the mere mention of the common name, and will simply use the species name (orca) more often.
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(http://i.imgur.com/WHIhV.jpg)
That's hilarious. :lol
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i said they have "killer" in the name because they kill fish and marine mammals.
you're saying they have "killer" in the name because they were observed killing marine mammals.
I'd say were in agreement :aok
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Still amazes me that you took them pics with your cell phone.
Samsung Memoir phone with an 8 MP camera.
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(http://i.imgur.com/WHIhV.jpg)
I'm confused, is he putting another pair of glasses on over his first pair, or is he removing the second pair?
I can't stand that guy's acting. He tries far too hard to be dramatic, and comes off as ridiculous.
It really is a shame that an accident like this occurred. It's bound to happen occasionally, and sure, she was doing what she loved, but I'm sure she didn't love dying. I really don't think the orca can be "blamed", or should be killed. It's amazing that they show as much restraint as they do towards people, when there's really no reason they should.
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I'm confused, is he putting another pair of glasses on over his first pair, or is he removing the second pair?
I can't stand that guy's acting. He tries far too hard to be dramatic, and comes off as ridiculous.
It really is a shame that an accident like this occurred. It's bound to happen occasionally, and sure, she was doing what she loved, but I'm sure she didn't love dying. I really don't think the orca can be "blamed", or should be killed. It's amazing that they show as much restraint as they do towards people, when there's really no reason they should.
Yea.
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wild amimals are not pets.