Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Ardy123 on February 25, 2010, 03:29:12 PM
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All to often it seems that when I engage later war f4us, although I can easily out 'e' them in a rolling scissors with a 109, they can turn in the vertical much tighter and as a result, they can get their nose up, hang on the prop, fire a burst can kill you right as they are about to stall and drop themselves.
The question, how to avoid getting shot in these situations where you are engaged in a rolling scissors with an f4u.
Thanks
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The best recommendation about engaging an F4U in a rolling scissors:
Don't. The F4U just plays this game FAR too well and there's only a handful of aircraft that can hang with her in it.
Also, the rolling scissors and hanging on your prop for a shot are two different things.
As for the Corsair's ability to maneuver in the vertical, she has two things going for her. One is the flaps, but she also has one of the most effective rudders of any aircraft in the game. She can just flop right over at the top of a vertical extension like few other aircraft can, and IMO, effective use of the rudder is even MORE important than flaps when flying the F4U.
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Your talking about probably the best plane in the game at rolling scissors....its not an even fight especially when the hog has an E advantage at the beginning. Really the only thing you can do is reverse the E on him and rope him in the scissors. Maybe pull into the rolling scissors, look to see how fast he drops flaps out if you see him almost full flaps out then the next time you go up try to flip him over using a spiral climb(what i call it :) ) . Do make him go upside down(where he will spill a ton of E you need to spiral behind his nose towards where his cockpit is.
Like I said at first not a good fight to get in with a Hog.......thats one of the reasons I think they are in the top 3 for being easy mode rides, only being beat by the Spit 16 and LA7 because of lack of view. :salute
LA7 is a MONSTER....... :bolt:
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those F4 drivers who excel at it are friggin awesome and a heck of a sight to see :aok
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Junky hits on the best option in this situation: If you're dragged into a rolling scissors with an F4U, your best move is to use your sustained climb advantage to get out of it IF you have the F4U at sufficiently low (IE: flaps out) speeds. Be careful not to misjudge, though, because the F4U holds onto speed very well when she wants to (very tricky thing about the Hog: she can dump airspeed at will, but at the same time has have VERY high E-retention) and can run right up you if you're not careful.
Also watch for the alert Hog driver who's wise to your attempt to rope him, and instead will use his next downward leg to dive out, grab speed, and reset the fight.
Although I have to disagree with Junky's assessment: this doesn't make F4Us easy mode by any stretch of the imagination. She just has a WHOLE lot of options but you have to know how to use them.
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Although I have to disagree with Junky's assessment: this doesn't make F4Us easy mode by any stretch of the imagination. She just has a WHOLE lot of options but you have to know how to use them.
Agree to disagree :aok :salute
btw Ive been flying the hog a bit lately just to find out where she isnt great at :rock
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The f4u is my kryptonite. I cant fly them because you cant see a dang thing. And I don't do well against them. I have a hard time judging their E.
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if your finding the F4U to be easy mode your not pushing it.
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Hog isn't easy mode, it's busy mode. Definitly not a noob aircraft, throttle, flap, and proper E management are critical with this aircraft. If you consider a 109 easy mode then a hog can also be considered easy mode. I find the hog to be busier, but the 109 to be touchier.
:salute
BigRat
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Hog isn't easy mode, it's busy mode. Definitly not a noob aircraft, throttle, flap, and proper E management are critical with this aircraft. If you consider a 109 easy mode then a hog can also be considered easy mode. I find the hog to be busier, but the 109 to be touchier.
:salute
BigRat
109 definately has more torque problems, its flaps dont deploy as soon, its not good in a dive...at all....guns are horrible for BNZ.....all that can be said about the hog is the rear view and its lack of accel which isnt a big deal if you have somewhat good SA
if your finding the F4U to be easy mode your not pushing it.
See the problem I have when flying it is I push it too hard and spill my E. When I fly cnservative...which 90% of the MA does its too easy to stay out of trouble and reverse E+ cons.
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btw Ive been flying the hog a bit lately just to find out where she isnt great at :rock
Careful Junky, that's how it starts you know. First you fly it a little bit just to learn a little about it, then you start having fun with it. Next it becomes your carrier plane of choice, then you start taking the Charlie to defend when you're heavily outnumbered. Pretty soon you've got a hog in your avatar, a Pappy Boyington quote in your sig, and you're devoting separate tours to the -1 and the -1A to find out which one should be your main ride.
:neener:
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All to often it seems that when I engage later war f4us, although I can easily out 'e' them in a rolling scissors with a 109, they can turn in the vertical much tighter and as a result, they can get their nose up, hang on the prop, fire a burst can kill you right as they are about to stall and drop themselves.
The question, how to avoid getting shot in these situations where you are engaged in a rolling scissors with an f4u.
Thanks
The F4u competes much slower in the rolling scissor than a G14. You're best bet is the wing over. Visualize coming up at the F4u from the right side, he is coming down at you down and to his left. You are able to get vertical just wide of his guns, As you do this you need to be cutting throttle while you get your nose high and banking right. The F4u will most likely have slashed from the left side of your aircraft to the right side. As you bank on the wing over to the right, you must keep your nose high and set the angle perfect to where the F4U will come from. The difference between this maneuver and standard rolling scissor is you DO NOT go inverted. I hope you can visualize this. It takes practice and looks funky from your enemies POV.
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The F4u competes much slower in the rolling scissor than a G14. You're best bet is the wing over. Visualize coming up at the F4u from the right side, he is coming down at you down and to his left. You are able to get vertical just wide of his guns, As you do this you need to be cutting throttle while you get your nose high and banking right. The F4u will most likely have slashed from the left side of your aircraft to the right side. As you bank on the wing over to the right, you must keep your nose high and set the angle perfect to where the F4U will come from. The difference between this maneuver and standard rolling scissor is you DO NOT go inverted. I hope you can visualize this. It takes practice and looks funky from your enemies POV.
Ok on the wing over, if I go up and do a wing over, when my nose pitches down, the hog is already pulling up on my six and can get the snap shot as my nose falls back down on him. The issue is how to create enough separation that when the wing over is performed (due to is slower execution time), that the scissors isn't already lost?
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Ok on the wing over, if I go up and do a wing over, when my nose pitches down, the hog is already pulling up on my six and can get the snap shot as my nose falls back down on him. The issue is how to create enough separation that when the wing over is performed (due to is slower execution time), that the scissors isn't already lost?
You aren't visualizing it correctly. I don't think I have a film of it so best bet would be to show you next time in the DA. When you initiate the wing over you are on top of the rolling scissor very slow and you want the f4u to fly beneath you. Tater as he passes.
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All to often it seems that when I engage later war f4us, although I can easily out 'e' them in a rolling scissors with a 109, they can turn in the vertical much tighter and as a result, they can get their nose up, hang on the prop, fire a burst can kill you right as they are about to stall and drop themselves.
The question, how to avoid getting shot in these situations where you are engaged in a rolling scissors with an f4u.
Thanks
For what it's worth, 99% of the time I see this from my perspective (F4U) it's because the 109 pilot gets out in front of me in the scissors, and then pulls up too sharply. This allows me to "cut across the corner" with a less-severe pull-up, which maintains my E, and allows me to climb up to and get a shot on a plane that I can't possibly compete with in the vertical. So, I'm not turning in the vertical "tighter" at all...
If you can easily out-E 'em, why are you forcing the matter with a rolling scissors at all?
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For what it's worth, 99% of the time I see this from my perspective (F4U) it's because the 109 pilot gets out in front of me in the scissors, and then pulls up too sharply. This allows me to "cut across the corner" with a less-severe pull-up, which maintains my E, and allows me to climb up to and get a shot on a plane that I can't possibly compete with in the vertical. So, I'm not turning in the vertical "tighter" at all...
If you can easily out-E 'em, why are you forcing the matter with a rolling scissors at all?
Well, the simple answer.. because it more fun to play dangerously! :D :rock
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If you can easily out-E 'em, why are you forcing the matter with a rolling scissors at all?
Makes for quicker killin.
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Makes for quicker killin.
Hehe, not according to the original post...
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The F4u competes much slower in the rolling scissor than a G14. You're best bet is the wing over. Visualize coming up at the F4u from the right side, he is coming down at you down and to his left. You are able to get vertical just wide of his guns, As you do this you need to be cutting throttle while you get your nose high and banking right. The F4u will most likely have slashed from the left side of your aircraft to the right side. As you bank on the wing over to the right, you must keep your nose high and set the angle perfect to where the F4U will come from. The difference between this maneuver and standard rolling scissor is you DO NOT go inverted. I hope you can visualize this. It takes practice and looks funky from your enemies POV.
The above does work... and I did it on film I just cant figure out how to do it again.... thanks for explaining :banana:
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Hehe, not according to the original post...
Sry, I was basing my replies on how Grizz efficiently ends F4U threats. :aok
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Sry, I was basing my replies on how Grizz efficiently ends F4U threats. :aok
So, if you've got more E than the F4U, you'll scissor him?
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I started AH as my first flight sim ever late last June and I chose the F4U-1A to learn on.....Mostly for misguided sentimental reasons; and not knowing how hard it would be to learn how to fly it effectively. No exaggeration I think my first month of flight I had something like 2 kills (probably proxies) and 47 deaths! Thanks to some like Mtnman and my squadmates w/VF-17 I've improved significantly.
I still however don't feel that I know how to use the big rudder of the F4U to its full ability and, can't perform the rolling scissors....It basically looks like one big slow barrel roll where I end up hanging in front of my attacker giving him an easy shot. A barrel roll may be good for a diving attacker but not for someone that is "saddled up" on my 6.
Is there a dedicated Hog driver that might have some time in the TA? Maybe one evening (except Tuesday) this next week????
Thanks all!!!
:salute
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Key to the rolling scissors in the F4U is to make sure you get your flaps out when your airspeed is low enough, and kicking the inside rudder to tighten up your roll. In fact, almost any time I'm rolling I'm giving her a bit of inside rudder to quicken it up.
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Key to the rolling scissors in the F4U is to make sure you get your flaps out when your airspeed is low enough, and kicking the inside rudder to tighten up your roll. In fact, almost any time I'm rolling I'm giving her a bit of inside rudder to quicken it up.
Yes, I do the same. It sure helps to apply slightly inside rudder to tighten the rolls in the F4U.
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So, if you've got more E than the F4U, you'll scissor him?
Haha probably not. Usually an aggressive spiral climb and flopping him out before coming in for the kill shot. If I happen to miss, I will continue to put the pressure on for the kill. If I continue to miss shots the fight will go to rolling scissor as a result of my aiming failures in pushing the aggression envelope.
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All to often it seems that when I engage later war f4us, although I can easily out 'e' them in a rolling scissors with a 109, they can turn in the vertical much tighter and as a result, they can get their nose up, hang on the prop, fire a burst can kill you right as they are about to stall and drop themselves.
The question, how to avoid getting shot in these situations where you are engaged in a rolling scissors with an f4u.
Thanks
One thing that will help a skilled stick like you is to learn to recognize a skilled hog pilot early. For my part, I'll engage in a rolling scissor with any hog "BUT": Moreso than most planes, you can quickly tell if a hog is competently flown. When it seems clear the plane/pilot combo is going to put you into his sights, select an escape vector as he noses away/up and reset the fight. :)
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I
Is there a dedicated Hog driver that might have some time in the TA? Maybe one evening (except Tuesday) this next week????
Thanks all!!!
:salute
Noah17,
I'm there most nights around 9central time, if you want to do some work :aok
:salute
BigRat
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For what it's worth, 99% of the time I see this from my perspective (F4U) it's because the 109 pilot gets out in front of me in the scissors, and then pulls up too sharply. This allows me to "cut across the corner" with a less-severe pull-up, which maintains my E, and allows me to climb up to and get a shot on a plane that I can't possibly compete with in the vertical. So, I'm not turning in the vertical "tighter" at all...
Yes, this seems like a common mistake for a +E airplane. Instead of using the airspeed, extending, and gaining enough distance to properly perform a rope or reset the fight, the 109 pulls up too soon. When your opponent is 200-400 behind you on your 6, that is NOT the time to try a rope.
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Hey BigRat,
I'll be there. Hopefully Monday, If you're busy I'll be there later in the week.
Thanks!!!!
:rock