Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Flipperk on February 27, 2010, 12:02:07 PM
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Just finished my first year of college and I am already getting tons of letters from my recruiters office telling me about how if I joined the Marines after 4 years of college ill be placed as an officer at the start.
Now honestly I never really wanted to join the military, but however I have to say that everytime I open up a letter from them I day dream about being an officer in the Marines more than I do furthuring my career... :huh
Maybe subconsiously I want to be a Marine but do not know it.
Anyways what is ya'lls input on the subject? My declared major is Business Administration, I talked to a couple of guys about it...some say that the Marines will take the degree and put me as an officer, others say that they would rather have an Engineering Degree and will place me as a recruit instead.
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What you want is the Platoon Leaders Class; go here:
http://officer.marines.com/marine/making_marine_officers/commissioning_programs/platoon_leaders_class
Good Luck & Semper Fi
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Real men become Combat Engineers :aok :salute
best of luck if you do join the Marines tho :cool:
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Don't join the military unless you really want to do something with your life that you can't do anywhere except in the military. The same goes for picking your service... Don't just join whichever one will take you, pick one that will give you the best chance at doing what YOU want to do.
The military life and BS you put up with in the service is far far too crummy to put up with unless you are doing something you really really want to do (or have no other options, but in that case why not get a 1-way ticket to France and join the French Foreign Legion?)
If you go Marines, you will be a rifleman first, unless you are one of a very small group of specialists filling niche jobs. If you are a Marine officer, you will be trained to lead riflemen into combat before they teach you to do anything else, and your career will primarily depend on how good of a officer you are in the areas of leading men in combat. If that isn't what you want to do, don't even think of signing up to be a Marine. Join another service or remain a civilian.
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Don't make this decision lightly. The military, even as an enlisted person, is a very tough job and a lot of years of commitment. As an officer, it'd be even more so. The recruiters make it sound pretty good but if you don't like it, it's not like you can just up and quit. Ready to lay down your life for real? That's a big question. You have to want it in your heart. If it's not there, steer clear.
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Don't join the military unless you really want to do something with your life that you can't do anywhere except in the military. The same goes for picking your service... Don't just join whichever one will take you, pick one that will give you the best chance at doing what YOU want to do.
The military life and BS you put up with in the service is far far too crummy to put up with unless you are doing something you really really want to do (or have no other options, but in that case why not get a 1-way ticket to France and join the French Foreign Legion?)
If you go Marines, you will be a rifleman first, unless you are one of a very small group of specialists filling niche jobs. If you are a Marine officer, you will be trained to lead riflemen into combat before they teach you to do anything else, and your career will primarily depend on how good of a officer you are in the areas of leading men in combat. If that isn't what you want to do, don't even think of signing up to be a Marine. Join another service or remain a civilian.
I quoted the above for truth. Having been a military Officer I can tell you it calls for a certain amount of dedication. If this is NOT what you want to do then let it go by you. If you decide to go into it to "see how it works out" you will be doing a disservice to yourself and those placed under your command. Being a troop leader at the lower levels (Plt & Company) is the best job you will get as an Officer. Or it will be the worst if you don't have the desire and dedication it requires.
The uniform is nice and thinking about the prestige only goes so far. Being a leader now means long hours, sleepless nights, dirt, blood and dealing with death overseas. There ain't no glory in combat.
If you are questioning yourself about if you are able to handle it, that's normal. We all have doubts in the beginning. If you do NOT want to be in the military do not go into it.
Lastly you can check for ROTC options available to prep you for commissioning in to the service.
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It's really weather you want to stay in or not for a full 20 years. If you think you can stay for 20 then by all rights go and join as an officer, and you will probably be a Colonel by the end of your 20, which will give you alot of money. If you don't want to stay 20 then get an engineering major, and go in as an enlistee. I'll tell you to get in as an enlistee is getting to be just as hard as it is to be an officer. Marine Corps has a capacity of 302000 men and right now they have 306500 men, so they are way over filled, and they are finding any way to get people out and not let people in.
Do some reasearch and find out what you think is the best. If you want to find out more about the enlistee option then PM me because there is alot of requirements now to even think about getting in.
<S>
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i think what he's he i slooking at is an OTS situation.(Officer Traing School) Now i dont know jack about going Marine OTS and what or where yould be placed afterwords, but ive heard good things about some of the other branches and going thru OTS. My brother who went to the USAFA told me he almost wished he had gone to college then went to OTS because after leaving your at the same rank and file as an acadamy grad. and ability to fly(if your qualified) only draw back is as Im sure Eagl would tell you is you dont get the respect from the other acadamy guys and even those above you unless they went OTS as well.
heck one of the guys i fly with went inlisted USAF and he is what he calls a "Sweaty" he got his college eductation thru the AF then did his OTS and now flys.
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Just be mindful that as an officer you will have the (hopefully unlikely) obligation to order people into situations that will get them killed
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It isn't a matter of "Why not?"... It's a matter of why...
If you have to ask why not, then you probably shouldn't do it... What you are talking about is a huge life changing commitment. It deserves more though then simply, why not?
Just saying...
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It isn't a matter of "Why not?"... It's a matter of why...
If you have to ask why not, then you probably shouldn't do it... What you are talking about is a huge life changing commitment. It deserves more though then simply, why not?
Just saying...
Their are many things in life that are a life changing commitment some even more than serving in the armed forces. But I think the question of Why Not is more than appropriate for this...lets say a guy walks up to me and asks why do you want to be a marine, I would ask why not? Why not be a Marine? Its a life changing experience that you will NOT find anywhere else. With any great opprotunity their are indeed great risks and responsabilities, such as knowing that you are about send a squad into almost certaint death. But thats not what I see, I see as serving the country that I live in...I lived the past 20 years with the luxury of freedom, I now owe Uncle Sam a piece of my life in order to continue this luxury that I have breathed for so long, to continue this freedom that I want my children to enjoy, to continue this great country that we all live in.
I do not know how much a commitment it will take, I expect that I will want to quit at some point...but I rarely quit...at that point its a mental game..how far can I push myself? Great I made it this far...lets go a little further.
I like to challenge myself, this is possibly the greatest challenge I can think of. With the completion of this challenge I will know that I will stand with some of the finest men and women that have ever served this country.
This is why I want to do this, if this is not enough...then please let me know so I can not sign the dotted line.
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Do it go for it. You have already graduated and have a degree. Now go see the world and learn the discipline and comradeship that the corps has to offer.
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wait until you finish school then make your choice.
semp
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Their are many things in life that are a life changing commitment some even more than serving in the armed forces. But I think the question of Why Not is more than appropriate for this...lets say a guy walks up to me and asks why do you want to be a marine, I would ask why not? Why not be a Marine? Its a life changing experience that you will NOT find anywhere else. With any great opprotunity their are indeed great risks and responsabilities, such as knowing that you are about send a squad into almost certaint death. But thats not what I see, I see as serving the country that I live in...I lived the past 20 years with the luxury of freedom, I now owe Uncle Sam a piece of my life in order to continue this luxury that I have breathed for so long, to continue this freedom that I want my children to enjoy, to continue this great country that we all live in.
I do not know how much a commitment it will take, I expect that I will want to quit at some point...but I rarely quit...at that point its a mental game..how far can I push myself? Great I made it this far...lets go a little further.
I like to challenge myself, this is possibly the greatest challenge I can think of. With the completion of this challenge I will know that I will stand with some of the finest men and women that have ever served this country.
This is why I want to do this, if this is not enough...then please let me know so I can not sign the dotted line.
I wouldn't try to talk you out of it, but I would caution...do not sign on the dotted line until you are almost done with college. Check out the Navy ROTC program if your college has one...it's combined Navy/Marines...at least where I work.
The military life isn't for everyone...for enlisted Marine Corps personnel it's a contract based on 6 years (active duty/inactive reserve)...13 weeks of physical and mental hell in boot camp...then on to more training in a military occupational specialty, which is generally granted based on preference, military need and ASVAB scores...but every Marine is an infantry rifleman first. When the call to fight comes in, even the office personnel in a line unit have to be combat ready. Annual rifle qualifications and physical fitness tests...regular inspections of quarters, equipment, uniforms, etc...daily unit physical fitness workouts before breakfast...field exercises...plus normal daily MOS duties...crappy food...basic living arrangements on a good day...few holidays and only 30 days a year vacation which can be denied for any reason...up before the sun rises and you don't shut down until you're ordered to.
Marine Officer Candidates go through 6 months of basic training which is as tough and sometimes tougher than what the enlisted personnel go through...it's more intense physical and mental hell for a longer period of time...they don't put brass on just anyone...even mustang (enlisted to officer) officers have to go through OCS before they get that brass on their uniforms...and as an officer, you don't have a contract that ends, you have to resign your commission or get put out by other means...it's a lifetime committment. As an officer you are given certain privileges and responsibilities that enlisted personnel do not have...but by the time you leave OCS, you will have earned them...and you will be held to a higher standard than the enlisted personnel.
I was Marine Corps enlisted and turd officers, especially among the junior officer ranks were more irritating than gung ho salty a-hole brown nosed Staff NCO's...little respect for their men, little knowledge of the concepts behind respect and loyalty, little knowledge of their mission responsibilities...if you do decide to become a Marine Corps officer, learn the responsibilities and traditions associated with the rank you will be given...understand that the guy with the stripes probably knows more about your job than you do...that will earn you the respect of the men you will be in charge of and when you are tasked with ordering them to do something, they will do it to the best of their abilities.
Here is why not:
Do you know beyond a resonable doubt that you could with a clear conscience, tell someone to risk their life for something you do not wholly understand nor fully agree with?...because as a Marine Corps officer the possibility of you being put into that situation is high.
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I was Marine Corps enlisted and turd officers, especially among the junior officer ranks were more irritating than gung ho salty a-hole brown nosed Staff NCO's...little respect for their men, little knowledge of the concepts behind respect and loyalty, little knowledge of their mission responsibilities...if you do decide to become a Marine Corps officer, learn the responsibilities and traditions associated with the rank you will be given...understand that the guy with the stripes probably knows more about your job than you do...that will earn you the respect of the men you will be in charge of and when you are tasked with ordering them to do something, they will do it to the best of their abilities.
Quoted for truth.
I was a Flight Commander in the Air Force, which is a country club compared to the Marines. I learned quickly that rank does not equal knowledge. A good officer needs to know who to trust. I also knew that if I wanted scare an enlisted guy, I would suggest that we get together with the First Sergeant for a little chat.
I had a couple of friends in the Marines. What people focus on is the physical toughness. What most miss is the mental toughness of Marines. If you think you can hang in there, and truly believe that you can put your butt (and your troops') on the line for the National Command Authority, then go for it.
It will change you life.
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Any Officer worth the price of his uniform will, when he gets to his first unit and after checking in, first go talk to his top Sgt (Plt Sgt) and simply tell him (ask is better) to do one thing. Train him to be a good leader. Then he will shut up and listen. After a few weeks, months that new shave tail LT. might just be worth the cost of his uniform. He needs to do something similar in his next posting if it's a new situation. Ask questions, seek advice, then decide what you will do, that is if you have the luxury of time.
The last thing a good NCO wants or needs to hear is a new "butter bar" telling him that he already knows his job. That Sgt. will know the LT. doesn't have a clue about how little he know or how stupid he is.
I learned that from a Special Forces Master Sgt. (E-8) while still in ROTC. It's probably the best thing I ever learned while in ROTC. I learned more from my Plt Sgt and later my First Sgt. when I was a Company Commander than from most of the schools I attended. Every success I had as a troop leader was directly attributable to the NCO's I had the pleasure of serving with. The worst soldier I had was a know it all 1st LT. I got along far better with my NCO's than the other Officers for the most part.
If you think I am giving you a load of BS, go find some old NCO and ask him about this.
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Sorry glitched into a double post
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Just finished my first year of college and I am already getting tons of letters from my recruiters office telling me about how if I joined the Marines after 4 years of college ill be placed as an officer at the start.
Now honestly I never really wanted to join the military, but however I have to say that everytime I open up a letter from them I day dream about being an officer in the Marines more than I do furthuring my career... :huh
Maybe subconsiously I want to be a Marine but do not know it.
Anyways what is ya'lls input on the subject? My declared major is Business Administration, I talked to a couple of guys about it...some say that the Marines will take the degree and put me as an officer, others say that they would rather have an Engineering Degree and will place me as a recruit instead.
You want to be a helicopter pilot?
Best place to go is the Army for that, I want to get my WO packet in fly helis for 6-8 years then get out and start a business flying rich people around the place :D
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Best way to make a small fortune in aviation..... Start with 2 large ones.
:airplane: :old:
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Enroll in ROTC now and in your Junior or Senior year go to OCS. Officer Candidate School. If you like it after 4 years then join up. If not then don't. You don't have to commit to anything in ROTC. I did 4 years in college and loved every minute of it. If you want to commit afterwards go ahead. Some ROTC programs will pay for your degree.
So first steps: go tomorrow and sign up for your ROTC class.
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Flipper,
There is a ton of good advice in this thread and some that are not IMHO. I, like many others here spent 4 years Active Duty enlisted in Uncle Sam's Motorcycle Club. Not too long ago I received a nice little letter saying, thank you for your service your contract is completely up after I had served the remaining time of my contract in the Inactive Ready Reserve. I do not regret as most don't, one minute spent serving my country in the Marine Corps. I was one of those people who on a whim decided to call my recruiter, talked to him a few times and within a month I was swearing my oath of enlistment and about a month or so after that, I was in a van headed to MCRD Parris Island. Yes, the decision to join and commit yourself is one to be thought over, but if your heart is telling you now that it's something you want to do, go for it and go all out. The very first step you need to take is contacting an Officer Selection Officer. DO NOT contact your every day run of the mill recruiter down there on the street corner, his job is not to find officers but to find enlisted men and women. If you are truly thinking about becoming an officer you need to contact an OSO. What's going to be funny is that your OSO is going to tell you pretty much the complete opposite of what you are hearing from some here. He/she is going to paint your time in a much better light than what you are hearing from some people here. If you need to get in touch with an OSO or want to learn a little more, check out this link http://officer.marines.com/ (http://officer.marines.com/) . As a matter of fact, I have spoken with an OSO myself on a couple of occasions about the possibility of going back in once I finish school with one of my buddies. I spoke with my old Lt. who is now a Capt. at OCS in Quantico about it, who also gave me a ton of advice on the matter.
The reality is that you are going to see some of both worlds. It's not a cake walk, and some people make better leaders than others. Just be sure that if this is the path you want to take that once you start you are 100% committed to it. Everyone, and I mean everyone from your C.O. of your unit to the lowest PFC or Private in your command will know if you are a good leader and if they can trust and respect you. On the other hand, the time spent and the friends made will last a lifetime. The officer corps in the Marine Corps is very small and very close, that's one good part IMO about the Corps. Being the smallest branch, you have a tendency to run into people a lot that you once served with. Your degree makes no difference to them one way or the other. Your OSO can tell you more, but your degree may help them find a field for you but what really decides that will be the placement in your class in OCS and TBS, your scores from any test they give, recommendations from your instructors (not DI's there), and finally and most importantly the needs of the Marine Corps. It is true that they are getting close to capacity but you can bet a good amount that if you call, they will answer and it's a 99.9999999% chance you will be serving if you so choose. You DO NOT need to stay in 20 years to get something out of being an officer or an enlisted man for that matter. Any time spent will leave you with a completely different outlook on life, a stronger since of self worth, and so many other valuable traits that I can't list for you right now. I know plenty of officers that did not serve 20 years and enjoyed every minute of it and did not feel that the time was wasted. Yes, it is true that every Marine is trained to be a rifleman first, which is not a bad thing at all and is pretty fun. This does not mean that you will be an infantry platoon leader when you hit the fleet, it just means that if the need every arises, you are trained for it. Some people here are right a good NROTC program or any other ROTC program will help you get an understanding of what will be expected in OCS. The Platoon Leaders Course is an option out there that will help you complete OCS before you graduate college meaning you pretty much jump to TBS. After all of this typing and reading, and all the other posts, the most important thing you can do is go talk to an OSO. They will lay your options out there on the table if you wish to become a Marine Officer. If this is the path you choose, I wish you the best of luck and hopefully one day you can tell us that you graduated from TBS with you head high and are headed to the fleet. If not, I wish the best of luck to you anyway and hope you find what you are meant to do.
Wow, just saw how much I typed, hope your eyes aren't bleeding.
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Low is pretty much spot on in what he says; and that there is both good and ill-informed advice present, here.
What I am surprised I haven't seen mentioned yet (unless I missed it) is that USMC OCS is the only branch and program by which you can be *guaranteed* a flight spot. If you want to be a pilot; there is no better path. If you can pass the physical and academic requirements, you will attend on an air contract.
Now... on to the rest...
First and foremost, there are two basic ways to earn a commission in the USMC; attendance at the USNA or OCS. I went the latter route.
For the purposes of this discussion, when I say "OCS" I mean attendance at MCB Quantico; this includes PLC. The acronyms will get confusing (since OCS actually means two different things) so Ill keep it as simple as possible.
PLC is a dual 6-week program. "OCS" is a single 10-week program. I went the latter. I recommend the former.
Since you are still in your first year of college, PLC is still an option for you.
Given choice, PLC is preferable because of the shorter duration of each stint; in comparison to the 10 straight weeks of OCS (again, both being "OCS"). This is due to the physical demands and lack of recovery time.
Week six is about the point where you need that recovery badly. PLC allows this. OCS does not; four more weeks to go.
I was not prior enlisted but we had several in our platoon. All of them agreed that the physical demands of OCS were far in excess of those experienced at PI or SD.
As you will be expected to lead by example (OCS motto = Ductus Exemplo = "Leadership by Example"), your training is harder to ensure that you *can* lead by example in all cases. How much respect would you have for an officer who was at the back of the pack during a simple PT run?
The pace is non-stop, you will get very little sleep and your body will be pushed well beyond whatever preparatory training you did prior to arrival.
In concert with this, the mental games that the SI's will play with you are designed to push your level of tolerance.
In hindsight, the entire process is brilliant and one can see that every single step, no matter how small, is specifically designed to serve a purpose; to instill doubt, fear, confusion, etc. Your decision making and leadership abilities under that stress will be measured constantly.
While you are there you wont be able to see this.
A perfect (and literal) example of this blindness is the fact that you will not even be afforded the time or opportunity to observe your surroundings until about week three. Your eyes will be on the back of the head in front of you if they are not instructed to be somewhere else. Lord help you if you turn your head to look around. ;)
The aggregate effect of the physical and mental demands add up to a very difficult program. The attrition rate is high due to both injury and expulsion.
OCS is different than the programs offered by all other branches in that the senior enlisted men effectively get to select their officers. You are primarily trained, lead and judged by NCO's. If they deem you unsatisfactory, they will remove you from the program by any means necessary. I recall several examples of readily identifiable weak candidates being subjected to treatment falling under that category which you would not see aired on the Discovery Channel.
In any event; here is the process:
1.) Locate an OSO.
2.) Submit application.
3.) If accepted, attend OCS.
4.) If passed, earn commission.
5.) Attend TBS (The Basic School; 6 months).
If you decide that, after exhaustive consideration, this is what you *want* to do, a few survival pointers:
Pre-OCS:
-Run.
-Run.
-Run more.
-Keep running.
-Circuit training.
During OCS... some for fun :D
-Any display of emotion is a weakness. Display none.
-Pace yourself when and where you can. You have nothing to gain except a broken ankle by being in the fastest run group during PT.
-Actors are not officers. Do not emulate Tom Hanks. This sounds so simple its almost stupid, but given the calculated lack of direction candidates are given, they are forced to draw from other sources of information. Movies are a popular choice.
-Buy a second pair of boots in Q-town during your first liberty. One for use, one for inspection.
-Lighters are more effective than scissors when removing threads from BDU's.
-Shoe polish is quicker on the naming stencil than the marker.
-The marker is quicker on the spade than soap and water.
-They are not sneakers, they are go-fasters.
-Making use of the 3-round burst feature on the M16A2 during field exercises is fun... and ill advised.
-Clearing leaves from the ground while providing security due to a tick sighting will make the Captain mad because you just gave away the position of the entire squad.
-A leg cramp is not a reason to rise from the prone position in the Quigley. Your company commander, who happens to be walking by when you do this, will inform you that he just shot you in the head and then ask you if it hurts more or less than the leg cramp.
-"Because I couldn't find a real job, Platoon Sergeant!" is *NOT* an acceptable response when the reasoning for your presence at OCS is demanded.
If you lose your sense of humor, you wont make it. Everything you do - even if you do it right - is a failure. Just keep that sense of humor to yourself.
SCUZZBRUSH BULKHEAD! :D
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Eagl said everything that needs to be said really. The military gives you lots of quiet moments to review your decisions, from those moments come the kind of wisdom that Eagl is offering you.
If you are thinking, I have seen this business administration thing and I think its just too lame for me, I want a physical challenge, I want to belong somewhere" then go for it.
If you are saying, "I cant cut it on civy streat with this crappy degree I paid for, I guess I will take the easy way out and become a marine" thats a different issue,(you might still make a great officer though)
Be honest with yourself.
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Best way to make a small fortune in aviation..... Start with 2 large ones.
:airplane: :old:
The best way to make a fortune in aviation:
Rule 1: Never start a business in aviation.
Rule 2: See rule #1.
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nutts to butts...........quit thinking about it and just do it.
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I wouldn't try to talk you out of it, but I would caution...do not sign on the dotted line until you are almost done with college. Check out the Navy ROTC program if your college has one...it's combined Navy/Marines...at least where I work.
Check all the armed services. Discover their offers. Then investigate your discovers to separate fact from fiction. Let us know what you find.
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Check all the armed services. Discover their offers. Then investigate your discovers to separate fact from fiction. Let us know what you find.
Quoted for truth.
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As a Cadet in the Australian Air Force I am determined to join the RAAF when I leave the AAFC at 20. I have always said that while I am probably going to end up a history or Grammar/Writing teacher (English Teacher) I will serve in the RAAF as a flyer or the Army if they say I can't fly.
I would say you should join, the USMC is one of the finest fighting forces in the world. It provides the best training in the US armed forces and has the best fighting spirit of any military unit I have seen. ( I saw the USMC do a demo at the Australian International Airshow).
Plus it is useful to know how to kill someone from five football fields away.
If your up for it, Do it. :salute
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The United States Marine Corps is not just another military service to be selected over others because it has a better... "deal".
The United States Marine Corps is a way of life; a fellowship of like-minded individuals who respect and value leadership, loyalty, professionalism, customs and traditions, intelligence and integrity, decisive action above bravado, and who, through rigorous training, coalesce into the finest fighting organization in the world. The United States Marine Corps Officer exemplifies this way of life.
If you are not committed to accept our way of life, then please, do me, and all other United States Marines, past, and present, a favor; don't join us.
Semper Fidelis!
Patches
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A wise man touched this subject once
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHhZF66C1Dc&feature=related
:D
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LOL! Plawranc! Thank You for the levity and good luck in your endeavors! I think you understand, and will do well, sir.
Semper Fidelis!
patches