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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: janneh on February 14, 2001, 12:10:00 AM

Title: 109 G-2
Post by: janneh on February 14, 2001, 12:10:00 AM
Hi there !

Just read the book of finnish ace Hans "Hasse" Wind (74 victories).
He said that early G-2 had 7.9mm MG's, but late G-2 has 13mm MG ! If that's really so, of course we want it too ! That would be just great to have little more firepower.
Any facts anyone ?

janneh
Title: 109 G-2
Post by: Pongo on February 14, 2001, 12:26:00 AM
The later G2 is called a G6
Title: 109 G-2
Post by: -towd_ on February 14, 2001, 12:34:00 AM
or they stuck bigger guns in his planes field mods were common on both sides . grandady ws in a p38 squad a swore several had 4 cannons insted of the standard load.

and others had 4 or 6 50s pilot preference seemed to be the order . tward the end they got good at modifying the birds.
Title: 109 G-2
Post by: Tac on February 14, 2001, 12:38:00 AM
Gaaaahh!! Me want 4 cannon mod! I wanna be a chog with 2 tails! =)  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Title: 109 G-2
Post by: janneh on February 14, 2001, 12:57:00 AM
pongo, Wind said that 13mm was installed in G-2 too. Late models. Dunno,perhaps there's a mistake in book.
Title: 109 G-2
Post by: Tony Williams on February 14, 2001, 01:48:00 AM
 
Quote
Originally posted by janneh:
pongo, Wind said that 13mm was installed in G-2 too. Late models. Dunno,perhaps there's a mistake in book.

Pongo is right; all the references I know say the 13mm MG 131 wasn't fitted until the G-6.

Tony Williams
Author: "Rapid Fire: The development of automatic cannon, heavy machine guns and their ammunition for armies, navies and air forces"
Details on my military gun and ammunition website: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/index.htm (http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/index.htm)  
Title: 109 G-2
Post by: RAM on February 14, 2001, 01:57:00 AM
 
Quote
Originally posted by Tony Williams:
Pongo is right; all the references I know say the 13mm MG 131 wasn't fitted until the G-6.

nope. Until G-5

Title: 109 G-2
Post by: Pongo on February 14, 2001, 09:18:00 AM
I believe that Galland had a 109f modified to have cowl 131s befor he left Jg26. He had one modified to have mgffs in wings as well. It is certainly possible that Finish armourers did the same thing to a G2.
Title: 109 G-2
Post by: Tony Williams on February 15, 2001, 02:18:00 PM
 
Quote
Originally posted by RAM:
nope. Until G-5


I've just double-checked Griehl.  True, the G-5 had MG 131s, but it entered service some months after the G-6, so we were both right  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

Tony Williams
Author: "Rapid Fire: The development of automatic cannon, heavy machine guns and their ammunition for armies, navies and air forces"
Details on my military gun and ammunition website: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/index.htm (http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~autogun/index.htm)  


Title: 109 G-2
Post by: juzz on February 15, 2001, 04:06:00 PM
What about the G-1/Trop that were fitted with MG 131?
Title: 109 G-2
Post by: C_R_Caldwell on February 15, 2001, 06:08:00 PM
Btw, although its slightly off-subject, dont 4get that the Finns used the G-6 appelation 2 describe all their 109's => the G-6.This included G-14's and G-10's.

The Finns were masters at scrounging parts & re-using captured a/c against their former owners.To keep these a/c running they became experts at improvisation.Its possible that they may have modified a small number of G-2's to carry MG-131's , but at no time did a production G-2 *ever* use MG-131's.
Title: 109 G-2
Post by: LLv34_Camouflage on February 15, 2001, 08:04:00 PM
 
Quote
Originally posted by C_R_Caldwell:
Btw, although its slightly off-subject, dont 4get that the Finns used the G-6 appelation 2 describe all their 109's => the G-6.This included G-14's and G-10's.

We discussed over this topic in the Blitz convention a few weeks ago.  I learned that there were no G-8's or G-14's or even G-10's in Finland.  Those planes were used G-6's that had been marked for upgrading and sent to the factory.  But before they were upgraded, they were shipped into Finland.  The werkenummers had been marked to the new model already, which may confuse people who double check the numbers and models.  Thats the story behind the misunderstandings.

FAF had only G-2's and G-6's.  But I think that two of the G-6's were equipped with reconnaisance camera mounts (same as on G-8??), although the cameras were never installed into them.

Camo

------------------
Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
 www.muodos.fi/LLv34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)

Brewster into AH!

"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."

[This message has been edited by LLv34_Camouflage (edited 02-15-2001).]
Title: 109 G-2
Post by: Elk on February 16, 2001, 01:31:00 AM
Camo, you're right.

Here's a link to Central Finland Aviation Museum FAQ page, where this subject has been discussed.
 http://www.jiop.fi/ksimuseo/fibf109g10.html (http://www.jiop.fi/ksimuseo/fibf109g10.html)

[This message has been edited by Elk (edited 02-16-2001).]
Title: 109 G-2
Post by: janneh on February 16, 2001, 07:00:00 AM
"What about the G-1/Trop that were fitted with MG 131?"

Still hitting head against wall, but I remember FAF G-2's were indeed Trop-versions ?

Eh...?
  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Title: 109 G-2
Post by: Fishu on February 16, 2001, 08:14:00 AM
 
Quote
Originally posted by janneh:
"What about the G-1/Trop that were fitted with MG 131?"

Still hitting head against wall, but I remember FAF G-2's were indeed Trop-versions ?

Eh...?
    (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)

FAF G-2's had 7.92mm machineguns at least generally.


Camo,

Couple of G6 series were with some G6/U designition (recons)


[This message has been edited by Fishu (edited 02-16-2001).]
Title: 109 G-2
Post by: LLv34_Camouflage on February 16, 2001, 08:47:00 AM
Thanks for the link, Elk!  (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)


 
Quote
Originally posted by Fishu:
 
Couple of G6 series were with some G6/U designition (recons).

Yep. But they were never fitted with the cameras, afaik.  And they were G-6's, not G-8's as some sources say, right?

Camo
Title: 109 G-2
Post by: Fishu on February 16, 2001, 12:26:00 PM
 
Quote
Originally posted by LLv34_Camouflage:
Thanks for the link, Elk!   (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)


 Yep. But they were never fitted with the cameras, afaik.  And they were G-6's, not G-8's as some sources say, right?

Camo

Just G-6s, though, I don't remember about the cameras..
Title: 109 G-2
Post by: BBGunn on February 16, 2001, 07:08:00 PM
My books indicate that the G-2 trop models following the G-1 trop model probably had 13mm nose guns.  Why or how this change was justified they don't say but its interesting that the trop models got the heavier guns.  Maybe they were worried about P38's nailing their supply ships and bombers.