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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Motherland on March 07, 2010, 12:10:55 AM

Title: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: Motherland on March 07, 2010, 12:10:55 AM
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/AK_Comrade/willittakeoff.jpg)

HELICOPTER ON A TURNTABLE!!
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: Saxman on March 07, 2010, 12:26:07 AM
 :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: Kermit de frog on March 07, 2010, 01:23:32 AM
 :rofl


BTW, it won't fly.

 :bolt:
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: mechanic on March 07, 2010, 01:48:08 AM
 :rofl
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: allaire on March 08, 2010, 06:57:46 AM
No helicopters fly they merely beat the air into submission.
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: Denholm on March 08, 2010, 07:47:26 AM
Sure...

Of course the air beats back once the blades approach the sound barrier.
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: AAJagerX on March 08, 2010, 04:25:40 PM
If I understand correctly, a heli can only go as fast as it's retreating blade.  IIRC, the fastest heli can push about 285 mph or so.  IF that's the case, I wouldn't think the sound barrier would be an issue.  Any input?

AAJagerX
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: kamori on March 08, 2010, 04:28:09 PM
Know how a helicopter flys?   They are sooooo ugly the Earth repels them....LOL

KAM
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: morfiend on March 08, 2010, 04:49:48 PM
If I understand correctly, a heli can only go as fast as it's retreating blade.  IIRC, the fastest heli can push about 285 mph or so.  IF that's the case, I wouldn't think the sound barrier would be an issue.  Any input?

AAJagerX

 I believe he was talking about the blade speed,not the air speed,once a prop aproaches the speed of sound,things happen that arent condusive to flight............. :lol
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: AAJagerX on March 08, 2010, 04:53:38 PM
I don't think a heli blade can get close to the speed of sound.  The AF tried to go supersonic with a turbo prop plane, and the blades breaking the sound barrier created so much noise that ground crews would get nauseous.  I'd have a hard time believing that a blade the length of a heli blade could spin that fast without snapping.

AAJagerX
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: morfiend on March 08, 2010, 05:03:28 PM
 exactly,thats why the "not condusive to flight "statement was made............ :devil
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: Denholm on March 08, 2010, 05:56:16 PM
I don't think a heli blade can get close to the speed of sound.  The AF tried to go supersonic with a turbo prop plane, and the blades breaking the sound barrier created so much noise that ground crews would get nauseous.  I'd have a hard time believing that a blade the length of a heli blade could spin that fast without snapping.

AAJagerX
The advancing blade (on the right side) will approach the sound barrier when at cruising speed. That's why you hear the Wop-Wop-Wop-Wop when a helicopter flies overhead at cruising speed.
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: GFShill on March 08, 2010, 06:02:43 PM
Denholm is right. That's why Hueys have that unmistakable sound thanks to their long blades.
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: Meatwad on March 08, 2010, 07:12:40 PM
Denholm is right. That's why Hueys have that unmistakable sound thanks to their long blades.

I absolutely love the sound of a huey in flight   :aok
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: AAJagerX on March 08, 2010, 07:34:21 PM
You are correct sir, I just looked that up. 

Quote:

Say you have a single-rotor helicopter with standard clockwise turn; The left-side (the honing side) will always be faster than the fuselage of the helecopter while the right-side (the lagging side) will always be slower!

As level speed increases, this honing and lagging also increase so the left side blades are going fastestl, the right-side blades slowest of all and the helicopter itself is somewhere in the middle!

The left-side blades will reach supersonic blade tip speed when the helicopter reaches approximately 350mph! But with the speed of the main rotor blades the left-side will reach supersonic speeds actually before that horizontal straight-line speed is reached. Should this happen the helecopter would most likely be totally unflyable; At transonic speeds the honing blades would be violently flexing as the shockwave attached itself to the top of the blades. As soon at the blades came around to the lagging side they would go subsonic but due to their lagging behind and the forward speed, they would make no practical lift at all.

My only issue is that no heli can get to 350 MPH, therefore, the blades would never break the sound barrier. 

If I'm off here, let me know.

AAJagerX

Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: AAJagerX on March 08, 2010, 07:36:29 PM
exactly,thats why the "not condusive to flight "statement was made............ :devil

Trim it out!

AAJagerX
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: Vulcan on March 08, 2010, 07:37:59 PM
If I'm off here, let me know.

AAJagerX

You are off.
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: Strip on March 08, 2010, 08:26:56 PM
Most of you are neglecting the RPM and blade length component in your though process....

A blade could go supersonic at 100 mph of forward flight or 400 mph, or any number for that matter depending on the two.

Strip

Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: AAJagerX on March 08, 2010, 09:13:50 PM
You are off.

I can accept that.  I just want to know the how's and why's of it.  If you've got info, please share.

AAJagerX

EDIT:  Nevermind, I found an explanation that shed some light on the subject for me. 
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: flight17 on March 08, 2010, 10:04:13 PM
helicopters cant go over 200kts becase at that speed, the back rotors will loose lift. The only way to get past that is to us a counter-rotating coaxial pusher design like that of the sikorsky X2. Because the 2 rotors are rotating in oposite directions, the lift will never be lost. the X2 is suppose to be able to fly over 250kts, though its flight testing has just started and has only reached 106kts so far.

as for the sound barrier, helicopter rotors can easily go over mach 1.

a CH-47 chinook has rotor diameter of 60ft so its circumfrence is 188.4ft. if at 1000rpm, the blades' tips are turning at 188,400ft/min=11,304,000ft/hr
11,304,000/5280=2140mph. as you can see, its clearly above the speed of sound.
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: Karnak on March 08, 2010, 10:40:58 PM
I don't think a heli blade can get close to the speed of sound.  The AF tried to go supersonic with a turbo prop plane, and the blades breaking the sound barrier created so much noise that ground crews would get nauseous.  I'd have a hard time believing that a blade the length of a heli blade could spin that fast without snapping.

AAJagerX
The blades on the Tu-95 'Bear' go supersonic. That is why it is so noisy.  I have heard it is the noisiest aircraft in the world.
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: Vulcan on March 08, 2010, 10:48:20 PM
helicopters cant go over 200kts becase

Helicopter speed record:
August 11, 1986   John Egginton   249.1mph (216 knots)   Westland Lynx 800 G-LYNX   Fastest helicopter

Sorry you were saying?

Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: WWhiskey on March 09, 2010, 12:02:27 AM
depends on the record your playing while the heli is on the turntable, maybe a little ACDC to kick it up a bit!
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: mike8318 on March 09, 2010, 07:44:28 AM
You don't actually fly a helicopter. You take off and make a series of corrections..
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: WWhiskey on March 09, 2010, 09:52:17 AM
You don't actually fly a helicopter. You take off and make a series of corrections..
hopefully an endless series!
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: allaire on March 09, 2010, 10:25:59 AM
The blades on the Tu-95 'Bear' go supersonic. That is why it is so noisy.  I have heard it is the noisiest aircraft in the world.

Off-topic:  Sub crews have said that the bears prop noise was so loud that they could be heard while submerged.

Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: flight17 on March 09, 2010, 05:32:34 PM
Helicopter speed record:
August 11, 1986   John Egginton   249.1mph (216 knots)   Westland Lynx 800 G-LYNX   Fastest helicopter

Sorry you were saying?


in general helicopters cant go over 200kts. out of hundreds of helicopters that have been designed and made you have found one... and that was a one time deal. its designed max speed is only 201 mph. also, G-LYNX was also specially modified for that flight. so once again, no production helicopter is designed to fly over 200Kts

thats like saying the Convair 880 is a supersonic airliner because it broke mach 1 in a controled dive.
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: Vulcan on March 09, 2010, 05:37:32 PM
in general helicopters cant go over 200kts. out of hundreds of helicopters that have been designed and made you have found one...

you said:

helicopters cant go over 200kts becase at that speed

I found one. Therefore your statement was invalid, whether it was 1 or 100.
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: flight17 on March 09, 2010, 09:34:58 PM
you said:

I found one. Therefore your statement was invalid, whether it was 1 or 100.
but its not a normal helicopter. it was a specially modified one. it also only happened once. so my statement is still valid. your just being obtuse and taking what i said out of context by using one example that has only happened once and under special circumstances. if that helicopter is able to fly at those speeds, then why doesnt it typically do it? also why is its max structural speed only 201mph?

thats like saying cars can go 350mph and then use a "car" that has a jet engine on it to proove the point.

so since you want to be so complicated, ill expand more on what i said for the second time... so... 99.998% give or take .1% of all helicopters cant hit 200kts or no production models can.
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: Vulcan on March 09, 2010, 10:18:54 PM
but its not a normal helicopter. it was a specially modified one.

So is it a helicopter or not?
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: rogwar on March 10, 2010, 04:57:55 PM
I absolutely love the sound of a huey in flight   :aok

Particularly when it's coming and not going!

 :rock
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: Wingnutt on March 10, 2010, 06:17:42 PM
I never liked riding in helicopters because there's a fair probability that the bottom part will get going around as fast as the top part.
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: Denholm on March 10, 2010, 06:30:58 PM
Only if the tail rotor fails. But if it's any comfort. The G's encountered if the tail rotor fails and the helicopter actually begins spinning will cause loss of consciousness before impact. :D
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: ebfd11 on March 11, 2010, 12:44:43 AM
  Dropkick…    Ch-47D Chinooks travel 196 mphand the UH-60 Blackhawk can travel at 221 MPH They are the two fastest in the American Inventory.
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: HPriller on March 11, 2010, 02:23:35 AM
a CH-47 chinook has rotor diameter of 60ft so its circumfrence is 188.4ft. if at 1000rpm, the blades' tips are turning at 188,400ft/min=11,304,000ft/hr
11,304,000/5280=2140mph. as you can see, its clearly above the speed of sound.

Whoa, just a second here.  1000 RPM? A helicopter that size won't have a rotor head speed anywhere near that, more like 160rpm.
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: ebfd11 on March 11, 2010, 02:48:52 AM
Ok gents here is the specs for the CH 47 right from the Boeing web site:

http://www.boeing.com/rotorcraft/military/ch47d/ch47dspec.htm

Hopefully this answers any quetions
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: HPriller on March 11, 2010, 03:35:36 AM
Doing the math for Ch47 rotors given the rotor speed of 225 rpm from the previously posted website, you get a tip speed of ~482mph.  Even with 200mph forward speed added, the advancing blades will still be traveling below the speed of sound at the tip.
Title: Re: Airplane on a Conveyer Belt returns in...
Post by: Denholm on March 11, 2010, 08:33:56 AM
Which goes back to me mentioning complications once the blades break the sound barrier. From what I've heard, uncontrollable vibrations are encountered when helicopter blades constantly break and re-enter the sound barrier. These vibrations eventually crack and break the blades.