Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: kingcobradude on March 08, 2010, 08:56:26 PM

Title: flat spin recovery
Post by: kingcobradude on March 08, 2010, 08:56:26 PM
how does a pilot recover from a perfectly horizontal flat spin?
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: branch37 on March 08, 2010, 09:12:23 PM
pray
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: W7LPNRICK on March 08, 2010, 09:58:50 PM
find the specific aircraft and google it. It differs depending on the planes center of mass, wing surface, average weight......etc.x infinity
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: Hajo on March 08, 2010, 10:08:03 PM
He recovers in the Hospital....or the tower.
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: bj229r on March 08, 2010, 10:28:34 PM
In general, chop throttle, push nose down, opposite rudder. I've never decided if any amount of flaps help
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: Soulyss on March 08, 2010, 10:47:05 PM
if you're spinning flat you can try dropping the gear to help force the nose down.  In some planes you may need to turn the engine off (throttling back to idle won't do it) and then drop gear.  Once you get the nose down pull the gear back in and follow normal spin recovery.
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: Guppy35 on March 08, 2010, 10:48:16 PM
I find that hitting the ground is the most effective way for me to stop the flat spin :)
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: W7LPNRICK on March 08, 2010, 10:51:14 PM
In general, chop throttle, push nose down, opposite rudder. I've never decided if any amount of flaps help

Yup, strange that throttle just makes it worse.  IMO no flaps because it forces air down directly under main wing, and resists a nose down recovery.
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: bozon on March 09, 2010, 02:40:02 AM
Yup, strange that throttle just makes it worse.  IMO no flaps because it forces air down directly under main wing, and resists a nose down recovery.
It is the throttle change than can make the desired effect. The plane is in force balance that keep it spinning and throttle change have several effects on all axis that may help to throw the plane out of its current state. The throttle may be the cause of the spin in the first place if the pilot applied too much torque close to the stall. Full power stalls are dangerous.
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: Ruah on March 09, 2010, 10:50:49 AM
cut engine, couter rudder, jam stick into turn, pray, rudder streight, stick center, engine on, flaps down, stick up, pray

gear down only gets the gears ripped off in my experience.

needs about 5k alt or more. . .so usually its kiss your bellybutton goodby time.
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: Skuzzy on March 09, 2010, 10:59:58 AM
I find that hitting the ground is the most effective way for me to stop the flat spin :)

ROFL!   :rofl
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: cobia38 on March 09, 2010, 11:20:44 AM

 fly planes that dont flat spin easy  :bolt:
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: SIK1 on March 09, 2010, 11:24:10 AM
I find that hitting the ground is the most effective way for me to stop the flat spin :)

That's the technique I use. It works every time. :aok
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: bj229r on March 09, 2010, 05:10:08 PM
"I'm ok! The ground broke my fall"
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: kingcobradude on March 09, 2010, 05:13:41 PM
yeah thats the only effective method ive found. A regular spin I can recover from OK, but it is frustrating when youve hat the shot of a ifetime down the drain because of it
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: chewiex on March 09, 2010, 06:38:57 PM
I hate when you depart from flight in a TA-152 and wind up in a tail-low flat spin. I have never found a way to recover even from high alts above 20K. The closest I have come is winding up inverted and still in the spin, lol. What a way to blow great alt advantage.   :joystick:
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: kingcobradude on March 09, 2010, 07:01:14 PM
yeah my pony always tries to spin, but I can recover. when a p38 does it, different story
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: 1carbine on March 09, 2010, 07:31:02 PM
Yeah dirt helps that you can get alot of it for cheap you should pick some up sometime  :aok :rofl
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: Gwjr2 on March 16, 2010, 06:58:35 AM
try it in a DR1 lol its a 30mph fall somehow I got out of it at 75ft AGL lol
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 16, 2010, 12:41:59 PM
yeah my pony always tries to spin, but I can recover. when a p38 does it, different story

If you get a P-38 into a spin, you screwed up big time.  If you can't recover a P-38 from a spin, you should seek the help of a trainer. 

ack-ack
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: Yossarian on March 16, 2010, 12:51:00 PM
RV-8 and Spitfire I have horrible flat and/or inverted spins.

I often find (especially in the Spitfire XVI) that 'rocking' your throttle between 0 an 100% helps you get your nose down more quickly after a stall.
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: kingcobradude on March 16, 2010, 03:52:45 PM
If you get a P-38 into a spin, you screwed up big time.  If you can't recover a P-38 from a spin, you should seek the help of a trainer. 

ack-ack

it was perfectly horizontal, I put my controls everywhere i could, everything was working as intended until I spun out
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 16, 2010, 06:44:07 PM
it was perfectly horizontal, I put my controls everywhere i could, everything was working as intended until I spun out

You screwed up, that's why you got into a spin.  It's basically the only way you can spin a P-38, it doesn't depart naturally very easily and you really have to work at it to cause it to do so.


ack-ack
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: kingcobradude on March 16, 2010, 08:12:04 PM
You screwed up, that's why you got into a spin.  It's basically the only way you can spin a P-38, it doesn't depart naturally very easily and you really have to work at it to cause it to do so.


ack-ack
howd i screw up? i just banked right and it spun left
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 16, 2010, 08:52:44 PM
howd i screw up? i just banked right and it spun left

You're in a P-38, made a bank to the right and got tossed into a spin to the left?  Where you flying with one engine and got into an accelerated stall?  Did you enter into an asymetrical power induced spin?  Honestly, from your description of "banked to the right and spun left" is a clear indicator that you screwed up big time.  In all the thousands of sorties and hours flying the P-38, I have never, never gotten into a spin like you describe.  Hell, I wouldn't even know how to get into a spin by simply banking right unless I cut off the port engine (#1 left engine) and pulled really hard on the stick while banking right and try and get the wing with the dead engine to lose lift and throw me into a spin.  Even then, I'd really have to work hard at getting the P-38 to spin.  

As you can see, it is very hard to get the P-38 into a spin unless one is very careless and allows themselves to get into a situation where a spin is possible.  The Lightning is probably one of the most gentle, forgiving planes to fly in AH.  You really, really, really have to twittle up to get it to do what you claimed it did.

ack-ack
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: kingcobradude on March 16, 2010, 09:07:34 PM
You're in a P-38, made a bank to the right and got tossed into a spin to the left?  Where you flying with one engine and got into an accelerated stall?  Did you enter into an asymetrical power induced spin?  Honestly, from your description of "banked to the right and spun left" is a clear indicator that you screwed up big time.  In all the thousands of sorties and hours flying the P-38, I have never, never gotten into a spin like you describe.  Hell, I wouldn't even know how to get into a spin by simply banking right unless I cut off the port engine (#1 left engine) and pulled really hard on the stick while banking right and try and get the wing with the dead engine to lose lift and throw me into a spin.  Even then, I'd really have to work hard at getting the P-38 to spin.  

As you can see, it is very hard to get the P-38 into a spin unless one is very careless and allows themselves to get into a situation where a spin is possible.  The Lightning is probably one of the most gentle, forgiving planes to fly in AH.  You really, really, really have to twittle up to get it to do what you claimed it did.

ack-ack
both engines full power, no screw up of any kind. maybe a glitch, but i aint worried about what got me into the spin, I jut want to recover
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: Strip on March 16, 2010, 09:40:37 PM
Spin recovery is marvelously easy, chop power to outboard (in relation to spin) engine.

Strip
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: W7LPNRICK on March 16, 2010, 10:07:12 PM
110 is the only one I have trouble with spinning once in a while. If I have alt, I can recover. It usually happens when I do one of those near stall desperation, tail flip turns, when the stall horn is going crazy. If you don't spin, you usually clear your 6.  :banana:
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: Widewing on March 16, 2010, 11:05:10 PM
In most aircraft, kill the engine(s). Throttling back is often insufficient. Shut it off, get the nose down and restart. If you lack the altitude to do that... C'est la vie.


My regards,

Widewing
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: Steve on March 17, 2010, 12:35:19 AM
In general, chop throttle, push nose down, opposite rudder. I've never decided if any amount of flaps help

In the 51: full throttle, roll to the left, flaps will just help it begin to fly again a bit sooner. The throttle is especially useful for an inverted flat spin, it will help flip the plane over.
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 17, 2010, 12:29:50 PM
both engines full power, no screw up of any kind. maybe a glitch, but i aint worried about what got me into the spin, I jut want to recover

If you spun the plane to the left while at full power making a simple banking turn to the right, you screwed up.  Period, end of story.  The only glitch you encountered in the flight was one of your own making, it's that simple. 

The best spin recovery technique is not to get into a spin in the first place.  You should be worried why you got into such a dramatic spin while doing a basic flight maneuver (banking to the right), otherwise you'll just keep screwing the pooch and getting into spins you can't recover from.


ack-ack
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: Strip on March 17, 2010, 01:01:57 PM
Ack-Ack,

We get it, P-38's wont spin if flown properly, get off of it already....

There is not an unrecoverable spin in the P-38 given enough altitude either.

Strip
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: bozon on March 18, 2010, 08:13:38 AM
If you spun the plane to the left while at full power making a simple banking turn to the right, you screwed up.  Period, end of story.  The only glitch you encountered in the flight was one of your own making, it's that simple. 
Sounds like he had an accelerated stall with the ailerons deflected. The rising wing (left in this case) will stall but the lowered one (right) will not. In a plane with long wingspan relative to body length this means a very strong sudden yaw to the left. Perhaps in the right conditions and certain stick responses it can lead to a spin. It could be due to anything from flaps retracting, spiking stick or, yes, pilot error.
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: 2ADoc on March 20, 2010, 04:50:06 PM
To quote Dwane Cole," Let go of everything and wait till it does something you recognize."
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 21, 2010, 04:58:04 AM
Sounds like he had an accelerated stall with the ailerons deflected. The rising wing (left in this case) will stall but the lowered one (right) will not. In a plane with long wingspan relative to body length this means a very strong sudden yaw to the left. Perhaps in the right conditions and certain stick responses it can lead to a spin. It could be due to anything from flaps retracting, spiking stick or, yes, pilot error.

It's exactly what happened to him.  He's too ham fisted and as soon as he tries to turn, he pulls hard full back on the stick and gets into an accelerated stall.  When I was dueling him earlier, I told him to listen to the stall buzzer and explained how it worked.  He had know idea what it was for, thought it was a horn that told you when your plane was close to falling apart from stress.


ack-ack
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: kingcobradude on March 21, 2010, 02:15:32 PM
It's exactly what happened to him.  He's too ham fisted and as soon as he tries to turn, he pulls hard full back on the stick and gets into an accelerated stall.  When I was dueling him earlier, I told him to listen to the stall buzzer and explained how it worked.  He had know idea what it was for, thought it was a horn that told you when your plane was close to falling apart from stress.


ack-ack
ACK ACK!!! WE GET IT!!!!! I JUST WANT TO KNOW HOW TO RECOVER FROM A PERFECTLY HORIZONTAL FLAT SPIN!!
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: crazierthanu on March 21, 2010, 02:39:39 PM
I think what AK-AK is trying to say, is that you cant recover from a spin you cant get into.
Title: Re: flat spin recovery
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 21, 2010, 02:42:55 PM
ACK ACK!!! WE GET IT!!!!! I JUST WANT TO KNOW HOW TO RECOVER FROM A PERFECTLY HORIZONTAL FLAT SPIN!!

Don't be so ham fisted on the controls and listen to the stall buzzer, the louder it gets the closer to the stall you are.  The best spin recovery is knowing how not to get into that situation.


ack-ack