Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Nemisis on March 10, 2010, 09:22:11 PM
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OK, I was GV'ing today, and this panzer was pulled up under and a little behind this tree, so as to make my AP rounds somehow "detonate" on the tree (we need that fixed BTW). Everytime I try anything like that, I get blasted from beyond any reasonable range of response.
It seems every tree, barn, house, and friendly tank :D I use for cover, the enemy has ranged immediatly. Am I picking cover that is too conspicous, or am I just damn unlucky?
I would like to sit in on a good GV'er too see what I'm doing wrong, anyone good on the boards, or will I have to hunt them down in the MA?
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No, I too have this problem :( I hate when they pull under a low branch and every round you fire either hits dirt infront of them, or detonates on the branch :headscratch: and whenever I try that, there rounds come through like I was sitting out in an open field :furious so dont worry, it's not just you
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Just my opinion (and I'm in the top 100 as a GV'er but I'm not a great GVer like Rondar or DR7, I consider myself average), is that the closer you get to the spawn point, the more likely you are to get ranged quickly and killed.
Practice spawn camping from longer ranges, or (if you can find it now with these new maps) higher ground. Shooting uphill is much more difficult in terms of ranging than shooting downhill.
There's a few tricks that I use for spawn camping (or taking up an ambush position) such as pre-ranging an area, using my mouse cursor to mark a target, pressing up-arrow and saving head position (F10) prior to zooming into the gunsight, etc. You probably already know this stuff, but its my approach.
Spawn camping from 3000 meters out, with pre-ranging, usually means they have to fire 3-4 shots before it becomes worry-some (unless you're dealing with a good GVer). If you're pre-ranged and can hit them in your second or third shot, you've gained the advantage.
Another piece of advice is to find multiple shooting positions, and always be able to get out of their line of sight if you need to. Hull-down positions on the tops of hills, or firing from a tree blind, can usually be found on a spawn. If you stay in one place for too long, they'll eventually figure out where you are and fixate on that spot each time they spawn in.
Just my two cents.
J
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Well, I wasn't spawn camping, I was breaking a spwan camp. I eventually flanked him out, and got a side shot on him.
My max effective shooting range is around 2500 yds since after that, minute variations in aimpoint begin to have a noticable effect. When spawn camping, I pick out a primary, secondary, and tertiary shooting position, all able to be reached in the time it would take to die, salute, and then respawn about 3 times.
It seems that on the Trinity and Compello maps that have been runing a lot (very annoying), a lot of the spawns are either level or just slightly above the bases. There are some that are below, but whenever I spawn camp, I have to spend another 5 minutes skirting the mass uppers, and by the time I'm back there, they've all left the spawn.
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The only cover you can count on, time and time again, is the ground. If you can find a mound to hide behind, or just barely get your gun up and over a ridge line, then you've got the best cover in the game.
However, I've seen some gamers cozy up to a hillside and get their gun barrel through the terrain and still be able to see and fire.
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as a dedicated GVer, i rarely camp. too boring rather set up an ambush near town or airfield. once i get a kill, i move somewhere else.
but, alot of my game is porking fields and killing towns, i'm not a great 1v1 tanker.
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One time I got into position behind one of the barns that have the side blown out and was able to angle my tank to look out the side of the barn. I had a pretty good field of vision and was able to fire on the other GV's and they had to be accurate to get a shot through the barn and hit me. Of course in the game I have noticed that it requires you to have to watch your flanks alot and if we were in real armored combat that would be the job of another tank. I have not been able to get back into that prime position again since that day I guess when I try it now I am either to far back or to far in the barn. I will say that day I had 36 kills before I got bombed and for a panzer vs. the M4 and T34 i consider that good with the amount of vehicles at that spawn. Like another poster said a good hill or knoll with you n hull down position is your best chance. Another thing I do is that if I am spawn camping or in ambush is I dont shoot at every vehicle that I see. Sometimes it is better to just sit there and observe before you shoot. With the M4 if you are in good cover (trees) you are hard to pick up unless you fire or the enemy takes his time to scan and by that time you or someone else has killed them.
BigKev
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Back when I was part of ~The Guardians~, I would have a "wingman" in another tank (same one as me), a few support guys in an M3, 2 (1 wirb, 1 osti), and a spotter flying in a B-17. The spotter plane was actually a 2 man team, a pilot and a gunner. He would circle around a vehicle, and his gunner would fire at it with the gun possitions. We racked up quite a lot of time doing those types of missions.
Point is that we were doing it realisticly, if a compressed version, we had some tanks, some support forces, and we had aircover.
And kev, they will be killed only if there is no high ground over looking your possition. I usually try to look a valley over before entering it: I get hull down behind the crest of the hill, I look the clumps of trees near where I will be working over one at a time, and THEN I go down from my hill.
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The new flattened maps have changed the dynamic for sure. When we had those small knolls and such, it was easy to park 3 tanks - one in the middle, one on each side, and use that small hill to minimize your profile.
Big Kev made a very good point - don't shoot at everything you see. If I'm set up with a good shooting position from long to medium range, I'll shoot at anything I see. If I'm closer up and the target is moving to my left or right, I'll leave it for a tank that's on one of my flanks.
J
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I'll admit I skipped much of this thread, so bear with me if I'm repeating.
Trees are a confusing piece of cover due to the angles that come up in this game and how kills work. (Note that trees do not need to be "fixed" as to blocking AP shells; that is their purpose along with prematurely detonating bombs.) I scored many kills myself by firing downward into the "tip" of the frontal armor on a tank. The shell passes through the "legs" of the driver. When the driver is killed, the tank explodes. Taking cover in trees can protect you from one angle, but generally a small movement by your opponent can give them a clean shot while you're stuck looking at leaves.
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Thats a good point OOZ, a move of about 15 feet got me a clean shot on him.
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Something related:
In many instances, the best "cover" is not to remain stationary, particularly when there is the same guy upping repeatedly, or your enemies come into range one by one. Your position will get known, you will get ranged, you will eventually get flanked (the enemy may even use your cover against you). Also prominent landmarks, even when being good cover, will help enemy communications (he is by that barn/windmill/whatever). Once ranged & spotted, you will eventually get killed by determined foes, no matter how little of you can be seen.
Shoot & scoot. Confuse them. Even the best ambush location has to be left at some point... to catch the flanking enemy unaware.
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I have a perfect example of what lusche is talking about.
Yesterday, I upped a panzer from S spawn to the N side of a surrounded V base, when the fighting was by the N spawn of a S base. I caught killed 3 of them from behind, before an M4 nailed me at (just gessing here) 3500 yds. After that, I left them alone for a bit, and then reupped with an M4, got one of the spawn campers going RTB. I moved away from where I had shot him, and into a thicket of trees to nail him when he reupped. I shot him at point blank range, and stayed where I was (it was an instant kill, so he can't have seen where I was), only to get him another time. I moved closer to the base, and started picking off the defenders at long range, only to be outflanked and killed by a panzer at under 1000yds.
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I have a perfect example of what lusche is talking about.
Yesterday, I upped a panzer from S spawn to the N side of a surrounded V base, when the fighting was by the N spawn of a S base. I caught killed 3 of them from behind, before an M4 nailed me at (just gessing here) 3500 yds. After that, I left them alone for a bit, and then reupped with an M4, got one of the spawn campers going RTB. I moved away from where I had shot him, and into a thicket of trees to nail him when he reupped. I shot him at point blank range, and stayed where I was (it was an instant kill, so he can't have seen where I was), only to get him another time. I moved closer to the base, and started picking off the defenders at long range, only to be outflanked and killed by a panzer at under 1000yds.
Yeah, you were doing pretty good! I was completely failing that night. Stupid trees did nothing for cover for me, and I was getting shot through my smoke screen :huh
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Your smoke screen doesn't help after I have you ranged. Thats the problem: if your good, you can guess how far you were off by on your last hit, and correct. If you score a kill, you did it right. If not, then you have no way of knowing how far you were off, and probably screwed up your chanced of killing him without moving, or waiting for the smoke screen to wear off.
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I think a good quick and simple solution would be to make the default skin of the panzer a green color. The default color we have now was not the historical color of a panzer's camoflage. It actually varied with the theater of operations. If the skin for a panzer was green then I think it would make a big difference in hiding and moving. But as it is not then the best thing I do is I take out GV's and try differnt tactics and see which ones work and which ones dont. I also have made range cards for several of the spawns in the game and that helps me know the range to a specific target area when I spawn. It took me time to make them but they are helpful.
BigKev
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Mind sharing? Shelling targets imediatly after spawning seems useful.
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I'm not sure anything is good cover short of hills (and that not to AC).
I was in a valley, in a stand of trees, thickest I've ever found to date. I could Not See Out, either horizontally or vertically.
And yet I was spotted, bombed, and then hit by another tank (that I had heard but not seen).
Like someone else said, keep moving.
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The best cover IMO was the hills. (They arnt in game anymore :()
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I nailed a tiger from behind at point blank range (My gun barrel was TOUCHING the back of his turret) by letting him roll past my hill.
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My whole reason for surviving that fight with the LTARs I mentioned in the other thread was jostling myself around behind one of those hills/burms/whatevers as they came out of or skirted a dense forest. I really, really miss those hills.
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Yeah, they gave panzers and T-34's a fighting chance in a GV battle.
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OK. Take notes: Ive never said any of this b4 and don't plan on telling it again.
#1. For ranging. The "H" key on your key board locks and un locks your mouse cursor, when you are ranging a tank from +3200 you simply place the mouse cursor on the tank you are firing at (i like to place it on the lower right corner of said tank, wether that is a track or whatever) fire off a round and try to quickly move the mouse cursor back b4 the round hits the ground. Unlock the cursor and as the round hits put the cursor right on the hit point... if you are close you can simply place the point of the cursor on the hull of the tank and BOOM in 2 shots your ranged, and a 1shot kill. (if you have a tank that can kill the enemy tank from said range)
#2. Turn off skins. most every "good" tank driver turns off the skins because the defult for panzer's and tigers and t34/85's is a crappy non-green that sticks out from 7,000yds away.... So now there is rarely anyone outside an M-4 "hiding in the trees and bushes". M-4's defult is still hard to see but that's the only one"
#3. Go to your video settings and turn both slidebars down to there lowest settings for ground detail and object detail range. Object detail should be set to faster and ground detail range should be at 0.5miles.
After setting both of them you need to hit Shift +F4 for Ground Vis range. This allows you to see "through trees.. :rofl" really what it does is take away the bushes and stuff that you can shoot through and leaves the things you cant shoot through, to a point... You will notice that some barns you will not see until you get close to them (this works to your advantage sometimes as you may have a tank in them and you can see the tank and not the barn, the easyest way to tell if there is a barn that a guy is hiding in, is that you will see your round explode as if hiting a tree or a hanger). You will also notice as you pull closer to the forrest that you liked to hide in b4 the small shrubs will appear just a few seconds before you get there. So when you shut down go to your turret to make sure you can see properly when you shut down.
#4. Shut down! Most good GV guys will turn up the volume of external tank sounds and turn down there own in the options, game sounds, settings..
This allows them to hear you coming from a range of 2.7k away... Also most good IL-2 flyer's and various other anti-tank aircraft drivers will shut off there engines in flight to hear you driving in (2.7k is 2.7k from air land or sea) so, if you are driving in and are alone and have a guy in the air hunting you find a quick place to hide and shut down and stop moving.
#5. Game sounds, like in #4 there is sounds for external and internall engine and track and wheels etc. etc. turn your internals down so you can just barley hear them and turn the external to 100. This way you can hear the other guy coming even if you are driving yourself.
#6. Go up the hill. It doesent take that long if you try... Having a nice shot from a hill gives you a few good advantages...
A. You can shoot down on the soft tops of enemy tanks.
B. You can put your tank in neutral and roll down the hill super fast if you need to get out of there with kills and are under heavy attack.
C. You can see the battlefield better. If 2 guys are fighting in a tank battle you can find an enemy's hiding spot easy-er when your up high looking over the battle.
D. After you start climbing hills regularly you will find out what hills you can climb and in what tanks... The tiger climbs hills the best. the M4 and panzer are 2ND and t-34's are 3rd best at climbing hills. but on steep hills the T34's will climb up some backwards when other tanks will not climb up them at all (this being a more difficult hill climb).
#7. If your shut down and need to move forward just ever so slightly some (not all) tanks allow you to move forward and reverse with the motors off by putting the tank in reverse and 1st gear. But this is inverted (if you want to go forward just slightly you put the tank in reverse and push the stick forward, If you want to go backwards you put the tank in 1st gear and push forward on the stick) this way you can get your turret into the perfect position. This will also help if your hanger is camped. If you and a friend are trying to get out of a camped hanger, put it in reverse and push forward as the tank is starting when spawning in with a friend. as your buddy takes the 1st rounds from the camper(s) your tank moves forward and doesn't get hit. Allowing you enough time to start and move out as the campers are all reloading.
#8. Set your controls. If your having trouble pinpointing your rounds on tanks, go into control settings and mess with the deadband of your joystick untill you can put a T34's turret anyplase on a tank with pinpoint accuracy from any range. (the T34's turret moves the fastest and as so, is the twitchest). Any good tank driver has his stick set so he can put a t34's turret on pinpoint with ease.
#9. As in #8. with setting the stick. You need to be able to put a round right in the perfect spot to kill a tank in one shot.
Good tankers know just what plase to put a round and will do so in one shot, for the one shot one kill. I will not go into what area you need to hit on what tank from what range with what tank. But it all does come into account.
To simplify it the best spot to hit a tank in the side is just above the track, and below the turret. From head on, it is lower than the turret, in the hull. From the rear it is as low as possable without missing.
#10. Folowing all the rules i have just stated will get you bombed by more guys than you know what to do with, to the point that you will give up tanking after a few months because no one will fight you one on one, or two on one, or three on one. In fact you will most likely face 3 or more guys on the ground with the 4th and 5th guy bombing you as the 6th guy trys to outflank you... Have fun...
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Mind sharing? Shelling targets imediatly after spawning seems useful.
Nemisis, if this was meant for me to reply on the range card then here it is.
1. Pick your spanws on each map that are the most GV active (or ones you prefer) and make a list of them from 1 to whatever. Be sure to name the map it is on.
2. Go down your list one at a time (this will take time as the maps will rotate and you may have to wait to be able to spawn to them.
3. Spwan out. Dont crank up. Just sit there. Take note of where you spawn it at.
4. Take graph paper (any paper can work really) and draw as best you can key landmarks from where you sit. Once you have done this make photo copies of it that way you can make multple cards without having to startover.
5. Then fire at each landmark. Not the range when you can hit it.
6. Mark the range and landmark and the direction it sits from where you spawned. Example: red barn, 1500 yds, SSE or exampl: red barn, 1500 at 5'oclock.
7. Do this several times so if you spawn in a differnet location you can note the difference in range and new landmarks to your relative position.
8. Once this is done practice spawning and taking shots at the landmarks you have noted from your range card and see how your shot falls. If you took your time and ranged accordingly you should be on the mark by the second round. Of course as you spawn more you will be able to adjust accordingly on the fly as you will learn the range to other points between you and your main landmark. Of course you can mark this to.
9. I like to use multiple cards for each type of tank I use. I also use different colors on my card to indicate the ranges. Example: green = 3000 yds, blue = 2500, black = 2000, yellow = 1500, and red = 1000 or less. You can use whatever colors you want.
10. Once your cards are made you can sapwn out and take a position up and then you can note where you sit and ranges to any point within view.
I admit it takes time and you can make the map anyway you want that works for you. Once I got my maps completed I laminated them and keep them in a small binder for quick reference. I knwo this sounds wierd to do but hey it gave me soemthing to do right?
I hope this helps and if you need any more info just hit me up and I will be glad to help. That goes for anyone else as well.
BigKev
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OK. Take notes: Ive never said any of this b4 and don't plan on telling it again.
I only read a bit of it...but it sounds really gamey and cheap. Im sure your one of those that used to turn your graphics down or whatever to see threw things, before they fixed that glitch.
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#1, #4, #6, #8, and #9 don't really seem gamey. 1 is no different then writing down the range (a little marker as opposed to writing down 1,840yds), 4 is the same as stopping to see if anyone is nearby, 6 is self explanitory, and 8 and 9 are no different than advising someone to use the hand wheel as opposed to the hydralic traverse for fine tuning.
IMO the rest is a little gamey, but I kinda have to turn off skins if I want to keep FR's above 10.
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I only read a bit of it...but it sounds really gamey and cheap. I'm sure your one of those that used to turn your graphics down or whatever to see threw things, before they fixed that glitch.
Gamey or not it is how the game is played by the guys that are playing the game. No one cares how you want people to play the game or cares how you think the game should be played. Number 3 was turn your video down. Thank you for replying to something you clearly didn't read.
I stated how to play the game to give the player the best chance of servival in a tank. If you dont like the fact that turning down your graphics is an option, then take that to HTC and keep it out of here. We here in this current thread are trying to help a new player tank better.
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Gamey or not it is how the game is played by the guys that are playing the game. No one cares how you want people to play the game or cares how you think the game should be played. Number 3 was turn your video down. Thank you for replying to something you clearly didn't read.
I stated how to play the game to give the player the best chance of servival in a tank. If you dont like the fact that turning down your graphics is an option, then take that to HTC and keep it out of here. We here in this current thread are trying to help a new player tank better.
I'd like to note that I am not included in this "we" and that I've never turned to graphical adjustments in a tank battle.
There's no reason to jump all over him for stating his opinion, USCH, unless you really believe you're the only one entitled to one.
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We here in this current thread are trying to help a new player tank better.
Is the only we i stated so if you dont want to be part of that fine...
As for having an opinion, i never said he was not entitled to one, i just mentioned the fact that we all have the ability to turn the graphics down as we have the ability turn on auto takoff, auto level, turn on/off the governer in WWI and so forth. It is in fact a game and if tuning the game to your liking via turning down eyecandy so you dont get owned by the guy who has it down allready is what is needed to help you then thats what you need to do...
Fact is people turn down there graphics to tank better. If that isnt your cup of tea and it erks you too much then i wouldnt worry about it or i would complain to HTC about it. Complaining to me or calling me gamey and cheap is just a shot at how i play the game given to all of us.
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Personally, I would love it if HTC changed the default skin on the panzer since that wasn't it "default" paint job in the sense that olive drab was the US default paint job. That or make the terrains realistic by adding browns, and tans, and hell, add some fields with some hay stacks in them. Maybe the other guy will take your turret as a hay stack. Just anything but this endless pine green.
Another reason for changing the terrains is that it would help with ranging, and estimation. If you have some browns and yellows in there, you can more accurately judge how far off your shot was, and how far away he is in the first place.
And USHC, I'm not really "new" just newish. I've had one account or another since 06 (I think), but didn't use them a lot.
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#2. Turn off skins. most every "good" tank driver turns off the skins because the defult for panzer's and tigers and t34/85's is a crappy non-green that sticks out from 7,000yds away.... So now there is rarely anyone outside an M-4 "hiding in the trees and bushes". M-4's defult is still hard to see but that's the only one"
#3. Go to your video settings and turn both slidebars down to there lowest settings for ground detail and object detail range. Object detail should be set to faster and ground detail range should be at 0.5miles.
After setting both of them you need to hit Shift +F4 for Ground Vis range. This allows you to see "through trees.. :rofl" really what it does is take away the bushes and stuff that you can shoot through and leaves the things you cant shoot through, to a point... You will notice that some barns you will not see until you get close to them (this works to your advantage sometimes as you may have a tank in them and you can see the tank and not the barn, the easyest way to tell if there is a barn that a guy is hiding in, is that you will see your round explode as if hiting a tree or a hanger). You will also notice as you pull closer to the forrest that you liked to hide in b4 the small shrubs will appear just a few seconds before you get there. So when you shut down go to your turret to make sure you can see properly when you shut down.
#5. Game sounds, like in #4 there is sounds for external and internall engine and track and wheels etc. etc. turn your internals down so you can just barley hear them and turn the external to 100. This way you can hear the other guy coming even if you are driving yourself.
And this is why I'll never tank and can't understand why anyone bothers taking tanking seriously :aok
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up until around 3 weeks ago when my computer died (IDK, it just stopped running the game) and I had to start playing on my laptop, I didn't even know you COULD turn skins off. I asked if there is anything you can do with the settings to increase preformance, and was told to disable other players skins. I later asked what happened to all the green panzers and was laughed at.
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Is the only we i stated so if you dont want to be part of that fine...
Gamey or not it is how the game is played by the guys that are playing the game.
No one cares how you want people to play the game or cares how you think the game should be played.
We here in this current thread are trying to help a new player tank better.
I count three times that you made an all-inclusive statement accusing every tanker or person in this thread of having your ideals. I don't want to be a part of that, as I have just as much respect for the people that turn down tank graphics as a crutch on a computer that can handle the visuals just fine as I do for people that hook up two shotguns and uberspeed on MW2. Sure, it's possible, but it tends to dampen the fun of the game for someone who plays in the spirit of it.
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Fact is people turn down there graphics to tank better
Fact is people turn down there graphics to make up for lack of skill. :)
(This is not counting, nor meant towards the people that turn down their graphics because their computer cant handle it or suffers from higher graphics.)