Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: BnZs on March 12, 2010, 11:28:48 PM
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Camel vs. DrVII
Camel vs. DrI
DrI vs. DrVII (Not historical, but its going to happen, so might as well throw it in)
Discuss. :aok
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Camel vs. DrVII
Camel - Flat turn most effective form of defence. Also best form of attack. Not point trying to fight the D7 in the vertical, the camel will mush over and die very quickly, if not auger straight out. Flat scissors will not help if the D7 is behind the camel, it will only give the D7 more chances to fire. If you can avoid the first attack (probably from above) then the D7 will have to work very hard not to get into a flat turn fight, which it will lose. Using correct methods for defending BnZ passes and chasing the D7 up briefly should provide the camel with a decent gun solution and quickly drain away any E advantage the D7 has
D7 - Keep the Camel below you and you may stand a chance. Best method is smooth looping attacks. Standard BnZ tactics will not work. Make the first attack count and never try and turn flat. If you fluff up the first attack, turn away from the target as soon as possible and try to regain an altitude advantage without getting shot. It is possible to defeat a camel in the vertical but do not under any circumstances attempt to follow it round a flat turn.
Camel vs. DrI
Quite an even match. What the camel lacks in turning circle it makes up for in vertical performance. The DrI gets very mushy in the vert. This match is always going to be down to possition and pilot skill. The camel should try to maintain its speed and use the engine to reverse direction quickly in the vert. The DrI should flat turn as hard as possible untill the camel is stuck on the deck and then keep it up untill it gains the camel's tail, which should take not much longer than 4-5 full revolutions.
DrI vs. DrVII
Same as D7 vs Camel, although even more importance on not turning flat with the DrI, and slighty more chance to use vertical moves to gain a firing solution.
Just my first thoughts so far, maybe not too great but there it is :)
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Camel vs. DrVII
Camel - Flat turn most effective form of defence. Also best form of attack. Not point trying to fight the D7 in the vertical, the camel will mush over and die very quickly, if not auger straight out. Flat scissors will not help if the D7 is behind the camel, it will only give the D7 more chances to fire. If you can avoid the first attack (probably from above) then the D7 will have to work very hard not to get into a flat turn fight, which it will lose. Using correct methods for defending BnZ passes and chasing the D7 up briefly should provide the camel with a decent gun solution and quickly drain away any E advantage the D7 has
D7 - Keep the Camel below you and you may stand a chance. Best method is smooth looping attacks. Standard BnZ tactics will not work. Make the first attack count and never try and turn flat. If you fluff up the first attack, turn away from the target as soon as possible and try to regain an altitude advantage without getting shot. It is possible to defeat a camel in the vertical but do not under any circumstances attempt to follow it round a flat turn.
Camel vs. DrI
Quite an even match. What the camel lacks in turning circle it makes up for in vertical performance. The DrI gets very mushy in the vert. This match is always going to be down to possition and pilot skill. The camel should try to maintain its speed and use the engine to reverse direction quickly in the vert. The DrI should flat turn as hard as possible untill the camel is stuck on the deck and then keep it up untill it gains the camel's tail, which should take not much longer than 4-5 full revolutions.
DrI vs. DrVII
Same as D7 vs Camel, although even more importance on not turning flat with the DrI, and slighty more chance to use vertical moves to gain a firing solution.
Just my first thoughts so far, maybe not too great but there it is :)
DVII vs DRI it's easy to scissor a DR1 if defensive or onto his 6, it has an abysmal roll rate.
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Good point Steve I had not thought of that. The D7 has the best stall turn handling and roll rate at slow speeds, it feels like. Plus a very good engine and strong airframe.
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DVII vs DRI it's easy to scissor a DR1 if defensive or onto his 6, it has an abysmal roll rate.
DR1 keeps up just peachy in roll, use rudder + throttle and push the nose hard down while you roll.
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One thing I've noticed about the Camel is that she can REALLY swing the nose around at mid to high speeds. A low yo-yo to the right especially will give a very quick reversal.
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Slight addition with regard to the DVII:
I seemed to have implied that it is not a contender. This is definitely not true. The great advantage in engine tolerance and roll rate/stability is not all that could be said about her. She is probably the most difficult aircraft to furball out of these three, but she is also probably the most potent fighter of the lot. To master her takes a more creative and stylish hand than either the camel or the DrI. But on that note, the end results of mastering her will provide by far the most creative and stylish flying. In the right hands she could dominate the camel and DrI but it's not going to happen just from yank n bank tactics in your first sortie.
The DvII is, in my limited expirience, the most fun aircraft to fight a same plane 1 vs 1 fight in. I went to arena 4 with lengro last night and we dueled for a few hours, it was incredibly good fun and the most impressive fights we had were in the DVII.
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just my obs with the dr1 and camel
thr dr1 is excellent at turning, but do not try an immelmann with it. and the slightest miscalculation can send you in the dirt.
The camel is a bit squirrely at first and takes getting used to, but with practice it becomes a lethal force. it carries less ammo, but i find it is a bit easier to aim and the bullets do a little more damage. it can turn with rthe dr1 as well as go vertical, and miscalculatiuons are a bit easier to recover from.
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DR1 keeps up just peachy in roll,
Nope.
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One thing I've noticed about the Camel is that she can REALLY swing the nose around at mid to high speeds. A low yo-yo to the right especially will give a very quick reversal.
A low right Yo and the Camel can eat the D7 and The DR1. The trick is getting them to turn flat right with ya.
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Nope.
Yup
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DVII vs DRI it's easy to scissor a DR1 if defensive or onto his 6, it has an abysmal roll rate.
IMO a dr1 will chew up dr7 all day long
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IMO a dr1 will chew up dr7 all day long
I felt that way too, until I was schooled by revrand. Man can he make that D7 move.
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I feel like the F2B is being left out here.
I got in a fight against Revrand in a D7, me in a F2B and found the F2B to hold its own. It was mostly a looping fight, and I noticed eventually the D7 started to pull around slightly faster, so I changed my tactics and started going straight up and nosing over to my right side, and kept behind Revrand the entire fight. I got some shots off on him but his undoing was he pulled too many Gs and broke a wing giving me control over the fight. The downside of the F2B is the uppper wing blocks off any lead sighting making it difficult to pull shots off.
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Can someone tell me how to turn the Camel please? It seems ludicrously unstable and I can't seem to stabilize it with rudder. For example in a flat break turn the little ball flys all over no matter where I put the rudder. It seems like I can get maximum turn rate with some position of rudder for awhile but then some other random position is required. It seems like I'm sliding through the air and while I can sometimes turn with the D.7 or F.2B I cannot remotely keep up in a turn fight with the Dr.1. I just can't get past the feeling I'm flying a bobble head. What's the secret?
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Can someone tell me how to turn the Camel please? It seems ludicrously unstable and I can't seem to stabilize it with rudder. For example in a flat break turn the little ball flys all over no matter where I put the rudder. It seems like I can get maximum turn rate with some position of rudder for awhile but then some other random position is required. It seems like I'm sliding through the air and while I can sometimes turn with the D.7 or F.2B I cannot remotely keep up in a turn fight with the Dr.1. I just can't get past the feeling I'm flying a bobble head. What's the secret?
If your flying sideways in a turn your using to much rudder or too little throttle, keep your speed up in the turn. Have a look at how much airspeed you lose in level flight with full rudder, its quite significant considering the plane is very slow to start with. You've just got to get the feel for how much rudder you should be applying if it seems your slowing and hes gaining let off the rudder a bit, in a straight up flat turn all things equal a dr1 will easily out turn the camel. The best camel pilots I've seen use a yo yo rather than a flat turn and reset the turn fight by going vert with scissors if they sense their in trouble.
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You can also use your roll rate against Dr.Is, which don't appear to roll remarkably well, while the Camel can change directions very quickly. However her best roll is the right, so if you want to go left do a 270 roll to the right instead. If you can harness the snap roll she can really get rocking. She also swings VERY quickly through yo-yos to the right (ESPECIALLY the low yo). Wingovers to the right also work fairly well, the key is you want to take advantage of the massive amount of torque her engine puts out.
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With both the camel and the DrI in the vertical it is essential to start the nose dropping before reaching critial stall speed, or I find most often it turns into a very ugly flat stall to auger. But if you gets the nose moving earthwards before the stall, it is relatively easy to keep control. The camel is the worse of the two when it comes to flat spins, in my limited experience. But also if done correctly, the camel is the better of the two for fighting in the vertical. Niether of them are very forgiving if you screw up in the vert.
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good info guys thanks