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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: CountD90 on March 14, 2010, 01:50:22 PM

Title: New F2B nickname
Post by: CountD90 on March 14, 2010, 01:50:22 PM
"The Mobile Ack Drag"

eh eh what do you guys think?

Kind of a lame tactic, but hey now you have an excuse for clearing someone 12 o'clock.
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Wingnutt on March 14, 2010, 01:56:33 PM
"The Mobile Ack Drag"

eh eh what do you guys think?

Kind of a lame tactic, but hey now you have an excuse for clearing someone 12 o'clock.

how bout "The Untouchable"

which is rather apt, considering if you get a half descent pilot and a half descent gunner in one its more or less untouchable.
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Steve on March 14, 2010, 02:44:47 PM
"The Mobile Ack Drag"

eh eh what do you guys think?

Kind of a lame tactic, but hey now you have an excuse for clearing someone 12 o'clock.

Not kind of lame... completely sissified lame. 
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: bj229r on March 14, 2010, 02:51:56 PM
Well....the tail gun has to make up for the fact it has only 1 forward gun. Used to have a frikkin blast using a gunner with a Kate in Aw, it turned with zekes, and the guy/gunner could get 5-6 kills every time
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: horble on March 14, 2010, 03:22:23 PM
I think I'll call it the 'F2BWind'

Because there's always one parked on the ground in the middle of the furball shooting you, just like the wirble and osti.
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Beefcake on March 14, 2010, 04:42:32 PM
The F2B has the "Moron Alert Level" gauge located right under the "Superfly Temp" gauge in the cockpit. The MAL gauge is designed to go off whenever an idiot sits off my six and lets me pelt them with the tail gun.  :D

Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Ruler2 on March 14, 2010, 10:58:33 PM
Well....the tail gun has to make up for the fact it has only 1 forward gun. Used to have a frikkin blast using a gunner with a Kate in Aw, it turned with zekes, and the guy/gunner could get 5-6 kills every time

KI-67 is somewhat similar  :D  But the forward armament stinks.
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Slash27 on March 14, 2010, 11:16:50 PM
It has a rear gun?? :huh
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Ruler2 on March 14, 2010, 11:22:06 PM
KI 67 has a twin .50 cal tail mount and a 20mm top mount
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: kingcobradude on March 14, 2010, 11:23:19 PM
f2bwind or mobile ack seems to fit it. it gets annoying trying to look for the thing shooting you, and its on the ground so it doesnt have a tag. theyre fun to fight in the air though
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: PFactorDave on March 14, 2010, 11:33:16 PM
I axtually had an interesting shootout with another F2...  I was working another fight, an F2 tried to drop in behind me...  I managed to barrel and caused him tostart to over shoot....

We ended up flying almost side to side at fairly close range.  Apparently we both had the same idea of jumping into the rear gun spot.  We exchanged bursts that way, kicking rudder one way or the other to get the guns to bear...

He piloted wounded me first, then I must have scored an head shot on him, because he spiraled in....

I thought it was a lot of fun actually.
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: bozon on March 15, 2010, 08:51:17 AM
Gunners can shoot on the ground? I thought that was disabled back in AH1 when we had B17s driving around the map room (then on the field) and shooting the troops.  :old:
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Superfly on March 15, 2010, 09:43:24 AM
The F2B has the "Moron Alert Level" gauge...

That's a custom gauge for Skuzzy  :)
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: VonMessa on March 15, 2010, 09:47:05 AM
I think I'll call it the 'F2BWind'

Because there's always one parked on the ground in the middle of the furball shooting you, just like the wirble and osti.

Agreed.

Would be nice if the guns didn't fire while not in flight.

There is always one....  (or two, or three or four...)

 :noid
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: waystin2 on March 15, 2010, 09:49:40 AM
 :rofl :rofl :rofl  Always something to gripe about.  Too funny...
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: VonMessa on March 15, 2010, 11:00:03 AM
:rofl :rofl :rofl  Always something to gripe about.  Too funny...

Seriously Way, would you not suspect that if HTC intended to have player controlled AAA that they would have just modeled it?

I can completely appreciate having a rear gunner.  I've flow with and as a gunner in an F2B and it's a complete hoot.  I was laughing my arse off every time I did it.  :aok

Parking one of those pigs in the middle of the furball just to have a stationary gun platform, then taking off to fly home and land the kills is the very antithesis of dogfighting and a sterling example of lame gameplay.
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Yeager on March 15, 2010, 12:01:07 PM
is the very antithesis of dogfighting and a sterling example of lame gameplay.
You are correct in the sense that it is antithetical to air to air combat, dogfighting..... but it is a sterling example of battlefield ingenuity.  I will take away the point I would normally give, ending in a comparrative draw: 0 + 1 - 1 = 0
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: VonMessa on March 15, 2010, 12:24:29 PM
You are correct in the sense that it is antithetical to air to air combat, dogfighting..... but it is a sterling example of battlefield ingenuity.  I will take away the point I would normally give, ending in a comparrative draw: 0 + 1 - 1 = 0

Honestly, I didn't find it that ingenious.  You give the Playstation crowd too much credit  :D

The first time I gunned in one and we had to ditch, I said "Gee, look the guns still fire, wonder how long it will take for someone to exploit that"
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Zoney on March 15, 2010, 01:13:02 PM
Hey, here's an idea.  Try upping in the same plane so he cant outrun you.  If he flys in to the ack, try changing your target to someone who isnt running to the ack.  I flew that thing last night for exactly that reason, was tired of them walking away from me.  Nothing better than the panicked manuvering the gamers will do when he realizes "the game is up".



Oh yeah, love this game, love the WW1 addition to the game.
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: VonMessa on March 15, 2010, 01:14:26 PM
Hey, here's an idea.  Try upping in the same plane so he cant outrun you.  If he flys in to the ack, try changing your target to someone who isnt running to the ack.  I flew that thing last night for exactly that reason, was tired of them walking away from me.  Nothing better than the panicked manuvering the gamers will do when he realizes "the game is up".



Oh yeah, love this game, love the WW1 addition to the game.

Are you reading the same post that we are?     :headscratch:
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: mechanic on March 15, 2010, 01:33:48 PM
Seriously, anyone who is troubled by even an airbourne single barrel tail gunner is in serious need of some tactical lessons.

I really wouldn't want to admit that a stationary tail gunner on the ground is causing me problems.
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Motherland on March 15, 2010, 01:57:05 PM
How do you suggest that one tackles the F2B, other than by just going after another aircraft?
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: VonMessa on March 15, 2010, 02:10:59 PM
Seriously, anyone who is troubled by even an airbourne single barrel tail gunner is in serious need of some tactical lessons.

I really wouldn't want to admit that a stationary tail gunner on the ground is causing me problems.

Shirley, you jest?    :)

Planes have icons and are quite easy to see behind you (well for most folks anyhow)

Random bullets fired from a landed aircraft (that does not have an icon that is easily read in most cases) do not have icons.

Having a negative viewpoint about taking fire from an unknown ground location is hardly something to be ashamed of.
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Zoney on March 15, 2010, 02:17:17 PM
Are you reading the same post that we are?     :headscratch:

Yeah I am, and I've killed them after they come back out of the ack, and I have chased them down when they were running.  Kinda like an answer to the complaints about them.  What part are you having trouble understanding ?
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: VonMessa on March 15, 2010, 02:19:58 PM
Yeah I am, and I've killed them after they come back out of the ack, and I have chased them down when they were running.  Kinda like an answer to the complaints about them.  What part are you having trouble understanding ?

The part where we were talking about them landing in the middle of the furball and using the rear gun.

I don't recall a single post about ack running in this thread.

I don't think it's possible to do much "running" o any kind in this arena (in the conventional sense, anyhow)

NOT getting saddled up on their 6 is pretty easy.  Just don't do it.

Carry on
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: waystin2 on March 15, 2010, 02:23:28 PM
The part where we were talking about them landing in the middle of the furball and using the rear gun.



You know I love ya brother Von, but I still consider this easy meat Sir. :aok
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Strip on March 15, 2010, 02:28:17 PM
You approach the F2B like a B-25, from low six and its easy meat if he doesn't turn.

Strip
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Motherland on March 15, 2010, 02:31:16 PM
You approach the F2B like a B-25, from low six and its easy meat if he doesn't turn.

Strip
This is all good to say and sounds like it would work, but you pretty much will always end up coming over the six line every once in a while (especially since you have to aim a bit high), and when you do, the F2B gunner has a lot easier shot into your faces or engine than you do onto him.
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Westy on March 15, 2010, 02:33:49 PM
Can't ya just bail, run to the hidden/parked plane and use the .45 to
shoot the player "dead"
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Motherland on March 15, 2010, 02:34:18 PM
Can't ya just bail,
Nope ;)
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: VonMessa on March 15, 2010, 02:38:43 PM
You know I love ya brother Von, but I still consider this easy meat Sir. :aok

Agreed, once he is spotted.....

The ones that sit there and put bullets into the back of my shiny dome whilst I am fighting other planes are tho ones that are exploiting.

The plane had a rear gun.  I have no problem with that.

I've used it alone, with a passenger, and as the gunner.  It was surprisingly quite amusing.

Having them enabled when on ground isn't really the problem.

Using it in the manner described in this post however, is.

I can't say for sure, but I'd bet that most pilots that were downed (or any rear gunners that survived) did not hang out for very long once their crate was a pile of smashed parts on the ground.
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Zoney on March 15, 2010, 03:11:26 PM
"The Mobile Ack Drag"

eh eh what do you guys think?

Kind of a lame tactic, but hey now you have an excuse for clearing someone 12 o'clock.

vonmesa you dont see anyone complaining about ack draggin?  What post are you reading, this is the first one, you know the one that started the thread.





Next
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Motherland on March 15, 2010, 03:12:41 PM
vonmesa you dont see anyone complaining about ack draggin?  What post are you reading, this is the first one, you know the one that started the thread.





Next
Mobile= the F2B being the ack gun.
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: VonMessa on March 15, 2010, 03:13:58 PM
Mobile= the F2B being the ack gun.

Water?  Like from the toilet?

Thanks Bubi, you spared me the effort.
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Motherland on March 15, 2010, 03:16:51 PM
Water?  Like from the toilet?
:rofl :aok
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Reaper90 on March 15, 2010, 03:45:42 PM
everyone knows that in teh WaRz machine guns mounted on aircrapt went inoperable once the aircraft landed....  :furious
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: mechanic on March 15, 2010, 04:11:34 PM
Reaper   :lol  :aok

Shirley, you jest?    :)

Planes have icons and are quite easy to see behind you (well for most folks anyhow)

Random bullets fired from a landed aircraft (that does not have an icon that is easily read in most cases) do not have icons.

Having a negative viewpoint about taking fire from an unknown ground location is hardly something to be ashamed of.

well lets take a look from my perspective.

stats for batfinkv WWI tour 1:

F2b -  Kills of: 42 killed by: 8

Just one of those was a tail gunner and most likely the product of a few pings and a later auger for proxy. Infact 7 out of those 8 deaths were the same guy, Xcelsior. He got me with his nose guns in turning fights and furballs, with great skill I might add.

Now compare that to the other three aircraft.

DVII - Kills of: 305  Killed by: 63

DrI   - Kills of: 182  Killed by: 35

F1    - kills of: 123   Killed by: 24



So, from where im standing the F2B is hardly a game changing aircraft. Why would I want to take some of the F2B pilot's fun away? They deserve to enjoy their assets just as much as the other three planes. Shame on thoise who do just to save their own skins from the odd stray bullet from the ground or after being owned by a tail gunner in a fight.  :)

Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Beefcake on March 15, 2010, 04:14:52 PM
everyone knows that in teh WaRz machine guns mounted on aircrapt went inoperable once the aircraft landed....  :furious

I know man. Those guys like John William Finn who climbed into burning PBY's at Pearl Harbor and used their guns in defense of the base were just dweebs man.

( :salute John William Finn)
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Zoney on March 15, 2010, 04:40:43 PM
<------- STUPID
Sorry VonMessa  :salute
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: VonMessa on March 15, 2010, 06:57:22 PM
<------- STUPID
Sorry VonMessa  :salute

NP  :aok

 :salute
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: VonMessa on March 15, 2010, 07:21:12 PM
I know man. Those guys like John William Finn who climbed into burning PBY's at Pearl Harbor and used their guns in defense of the base were just dweebs man.

( :salute John William Finn)

You've been at this for long enough to know it's not real life.

I'll second your ( :salute John William Finn) but, in this case, there is nothing to defend against

Reaper   :lol  :aok

well lets take a look from my perspective.

stats for batfinkv WWI tour 1:

F2b -  Kills of: 42 killed by: 8

Just one of those was a tail gunner and most likely the product of a few pings and a later auger for proxy. Infact 7 out of those 8 deaths were the same guy, Xcelsior. He got me with his nose guns in turning fights and furballs, with great skill I might add.

Now compare that to the other three aircraft.

DVII - Kills of: 305  Killed by: 63

DrI   - Kills of: 182  Killed by: 35

F1    - kills of: 123   Killed by: 24



So, from where im standing the F2B is hardly a game changing aircraft. Why would I want to take some of the F2B pilot's fun away? They deserve to enjoy their assets just as much as the other three planes. Shame on thoise who do just to save their own skins from the odd stray bullet from the ground or after being owned by a tail gunner in a fight.  :)




I know it does not have a profound effect on game play but, once they have landed, I would hardly consider them a "pilot" anymore so to me, I would not think I was taking a pilot's fun.  If intact enough to taxi around and utilize the rear gun I consider them a mobile AAA platform.  

It's not even the fact of the a/c having a tail gun.  If I die to it while in a dogfight, it is my own damn fault.  If I am having a fun fight , keeping SA, managing to get some kills, and die to a stray round in the melon from a source that can't be accounted for with a reasonable amount of SA or during the normal course of my danger assessment, it is gamey, but that is my opinion.  

I'm not trying to say neuter the plane. I would just prefer that they had an icon that was more distinguishable from the ground.

You can't avoid the danger you can't see, even if you ARE looking for it.   :D

Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: mechanic on March 16, 2010, 04:43:46 AM
so you dont avoid it, and die to an fbwirble. Whats the problem, just get another plane and you're back in the fight in three minutes! Why limit the fun of others?  :old:
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Bruv119 on March 16, 2010, 05:10:07 AM
i agree with vonmessa on this matter.

they look nearly invisible on the ground and if you happen to be having a DOGFIGHT inadvertently above some guy who just pranged his ride, why should he be allowed to sit there and interrupt the fight.

with tracers off all you will hear is ping ping ping  there goes the fuel / flamer / pilot end of fight thanks to some guy who cant tower out like the good sport one should be.

NO-ONE in their right mind would stay seated in a gunner position with enemy fighters overhead.  Because of the way damage is modeled and the fact the gunner has a wide angle shot on anything above him people will start doing this religiously everytime F2B gets hurt.
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Bruv119 on March 16, 2010, 05:44:51 AM
i guess the thing that gets on my nerves is getting inside the f2b pilots head.

he can't rtb, he wont survive long but he is still there persisting, what will he achieve apart from pissing people off?   :mad:  :furious

If HTC wanted people to have this option of gunning from the ground they would have enabled it on Buffs in the MA.   You have to take into account the fragile planes here a good gunner can definately hurt fighters flying by if not kill them outright.  Also being stationary and looking up it makes shooting much easier than from a plane in the air.

I guess i just find this not in the spirit of dogfighting.
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: VonMessa on March 16, 2010, 06:25:30 AM
i agree with vonmessa on this matter.

they look nearly invisible on the ground and if you happen to be having a DOGFIGHT inadvertently above some guy who just pranged his ride, why should he be allowed to sit there and interrupt the fight.

with tracers off all you will hear is ping ping ping  there goes the fuel / flamer / pilot end of fight thanks to some guy who cant tower out like the good sport one should be.


NO-ONE in their right mind would stay seated in a gunner position with enemy fighters overhead.  Because of the way damage is modeled and the fact the gunner has a wide angle shot on anything above him people will start doing this religiously everytime F2B gets hurt.

i guess the thing that gets on my nerves is getting inside the f2b pilots head.

he can't rtb, he wont survive long but he is still there persisting, what will he achieve apart from pissing people off?
   :mad:  :furious

If HTC wanted people to have this option of gunning from the ground they would have enabled it on Buffs in the MA.   You have to take into account the fragile planes here a good gunner can definately hurt fighters flying by if not kill them outright.  Also being stationary and looking up it makes shooting much easier than from a plane in the air.

I guess i just find this not in the spirit of dogfighting.

This is pretty much the heart of what I am saying.

Doing it for no particular reason except to be  (I'll steal a word from the Brits, here)  a tosser.

Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: 1701E on March 16, 2010, 06:38:54 AM
"If HTC wanted people to have this option of gunning from the ground they would have enabled it on Buffs in the MA."


Well since HiTech himself said the F.2B is suppose to fire while landed/crashed I would only assume there is a reason they can do it and WWII aircraft can't.  Didn't at one point HT say one of the points of the game was to piss the other player off (honestly I don't remember)? :P

I do see what you're saying though, an icon above them may be helpful.  As I mentioned in the Wishlist thread, I've never seen it done for actual kills....I do it to get revenge on the person who just shot me down with "help" of 7 friends.  I bail as soon as the con(s) that shot me down are gone.  Yes, I'm an F.2B dweeb, but I almost never use the gunner....unless Batfink is nearby, then I go crazy. :D
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Gwjr2 on March 16, 2010, 06:47:34 AM

If HTC wanted people to have this option of gunning from the ground they would have enabled it on Buffs in the MA.   You have to take into account the fragile planes here a good gunner can definitely hurt fighters flying by if not kill them outright.  Also being stationary and looking up it makes shooting much easier than from a plane in the air.

I guess i just find this not in the spirit of dog fighting.

well 1st kill the fb2 before it lands

and 2nd its the perils of fighting, Guess who was killed chasing a plane from ground fire....... the Barron himself.

Experts now generally agree that Richthofen was killed by someone on the ground, Richthofen died following an extremely serious and inevitably fatal chest wound from a single bullet, penetrating from the right armpit and resurfacing next to the left nipple.(going up) so let em have fun who cares and you don't know what HT wants or not.
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: VonMessa on March 16, 2010, 07:28:21 AM
"If HTC wanted people to have this option of gunning from the ground they would have enabled it on Buffs in the MA."


Well since HiTech himself said the F.2B is suppose to fire while landed/crashed
I would only assume there is a reason they can do it and WWII aircraft can't.  Didn't at one point HT say one of the points of the game was to piss the other player off (honestly I don't remember)? :P

I do see what you're saying though, an icon above them may be helpful.  As I mentioned in the Wishlist thread, I've never seen it done for actual kills....I do it to get revenge on the person who just shot me down with "help" of 7 friends.  I bail as soon as the con(s) that shot me down are gone.  Yes, I'm an F.2B dweeb, but I almost never use the gunner....unless Batfink is nearby, then I go crazy. :D

I'm either too damn lazy or stupid to find this.  Could you please show me where this is?
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Slate on March 16, 2010, 09:38:34 AM
  I didn't think the Furballers would have anything to complain about in the WWI arena, no FH to destroy, no field capture, but they found something.  :cry

  The F2 b is the perfect solution to being ganged by the furballers. Fly through the Blob and drag some fools onto your six and stay low. The smart ones will stay low and dead on six so the rudder will be in the way. Turn to avoid that situation.

  Don't park your blob in the same place and a downed plane will be no threat.  SAVE OUR BLOB!   :banana:   
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: uptown on March 16, 2010, 10:06:16 AM
  I didn't think the Furballers would have anything to complain about in the WWI ........  
and they shouldn't.
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Westy on March 16, 2010, 10:23:17 AM
"Well since HiTech himself said the F.2B is suppose to fire while landed/crashed "


Hitech has not posted any such thing.
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: 1701E on March 16, 2010, 01:29:25 PM
"Well since HiTech himself said the F.2B is suppose to fire while landed/crashed "


Hitech has not posted any such thing.


For the two that posted this:  I asked him personally in the WWI arena on the first or second day if "the F2B was suppose to be able fire its gunner while landed" with which I got "Yes xcel" back.  Unless I'm not understanding part of the word "yes".......
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: VonMessa on March 16, 2010, 01:39:27 PM

For the two that posted this:  I asked him personally in the WWI arena on the first or second day if "the F2B was suppose to be able fire its gunner while landed" with which I got "Yes xcel" back.  Unless I'm not understanding part of the word "yes".......


     
hearsay rule
n. the basic rule that testimony or documents which quote persons not in court are not admissible. Because the person who supposedly knew the facts is not in court to state his/her exact words, the trier of fact cannot judge the demeanor and credibility of the alleged first-hand witness, and the other party's lawyer cannot cross-examine (ask questions of) him or her.


I'll wait til he chimes in.....    I'm pretty sure he has access to the BBS         :noid
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: LLogann on March 16, 2010, 01:56:22 PM
(http://breakfastwithspanky.site50.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/cheese.jpg)
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Pongo on March 16, 2010, 02:08:13 PM
Not only should it be disabled on the ground, but the gunner should be blacked out at anything over 3 gs to show that he cannot shoot while in a loop. Or just lock the gun unmovable at any medium amount of Gs.
As to how many kills someone has, looks to my like you are avoiding the F2b for some reason. They are way more common then your ratio of kills of them indicates.
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Oldman731 on March 16, 2010, 02:21:35 PM
hearsay rule
n. the basic rule that testimony or documents which quote persons not in court are not admissible. Because the person who supposedly knew the facts is not in court to state his/her exact words, the trier of fact cannot judge the demeanor and credibility of the alleged first-hand witness, and the other party's lawyer cannot cross-examine (ask questions of) him or her.

Well look at this.

Make sure your kids do mock trial at the high school when they're of age. 

- oldman
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Vulcan on March 16, 2010, 05:11:32 PM
I'm loving the F2B. I caught fuze trying to alt monkey in it, he was climbing away and above me in a DR1, so instead of trying to climb with him I went level and used the rear gunner in a "Schräge Musik" kinda way :)
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: Urchin on March 17, 2010, 04:25:13 AM
Not only should it be disabled on the ground, but the gunner should be blacked out at anything over 3 gs to show that he cannot shoot while in a loop. Or just lock the gun unmovable at any medium amount of Gs.
As to how many kills someone has, looks to my like you are avoiding the F2b for some reason. They are way more common then your ratio of kills of them indicates.


Pongo -

As of this morning the F2B made up ~8% of all kills + deaths in the arena.  ~6% of his kills are on F2Bs.  Haven't done a statistical test but I'm pretty sure you could say the proportion is correct.
Title: Re: New F2B nickname
Post by: VonMessa on March 17, 2010, 08:20:24 AM
Well look at this.

Make sure your kids do mock trial at the high school when they're of age. 

- oldman

Is that your official endorsement, Counselor?

 :D