Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: stephen on March 15, 2010, 06:34:02 PM
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its odd how an nme can turn 180 degrees and reliably end up at 200 off my tail no matter what im flying, when im dead level and running hell-bent for leather... did ww1 planes really retain energy that well?
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There's not much energy to retain in the first place... there's only a 30-40 mph difference between stall speed and max level speed in WWI.
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When such things happen to me (used to happen) I would record it and analyze the energy state. Usually figure something out.
You can post the video here, I'd be happy to look at it for you.
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Given equal energy states at the merge, the bandit will quite naturally be slower than you upon completing a 180 degree turn. I think the problem, as Bubi stated, is that there is such a small difference between his reduced energy state and your max speed that he is able to get on your six at 200 with separation between your planes growing too slowly for you to avoid getting shot. You are indeed outrunning him, just not at a very fast clip.
That's what makes WWI fighting very interesting...it's VERY difficult to disengage once fully committed, however it's VERY possible to avoid becoming fully committed, if your SA is constantly at 110%. A dual edged sword...nobody is going to run you down with an LA-7 style on-the-deck monster, but you also don't have the advantage of using one.
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its odd how an nme can turn 180 degrees and reliably end up at 200 off my tail no matter what im flying, when im dead level and running hell-bent for leather... did ww1 planes really retain energy that well?
You're going to find that the problem isn't the other planes at all but rather with the pilot. It's a case of the pilot not knowing what the plane he's flying is capable and not capable of, as well as the planes he's flying against.
ack-ack
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There's not much energy to retain in the first place... there's only a 30-40 mph difference between stall speed and max level speed in WWI.
Not quite, Most WWI fighter planes could be landed at 35~45 MPH. There's a telling Youtube video from Shuttleworth Air Museum a made many years back, where their Bentley Camel takes off after about 200' of run, flys around for a bit, then does the nicest three pointer at about 38 mph. Yet the Camel had a level speed of about 115 mph.
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When the enemy does a break turn onto your six he doesn't end up at 35 mph. It's more like 70 mph. If he times his turn properly he could end up on your six at 0 yds. If he's going 70 mph and you're going 115 mph then it will take you 18 seconds to pull ahead to 400 yds. All that time he can be pinging you. And the time is actually much longer because he accelerates to faster than 70 mph as he tails you.
In my experience it is a very bad idea to try to disengage when 1 on 1. However it can work if you try to pick targets already engaged in furballs; you can often ping one or more yet they may not follow on your six as they stay engaged in a turning battle with other targets allowing you to extend through.
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Are we talking accelerated speed stalls or stall stalls? :huh Most WWI aircraft stall in level flight at anywhere from 35 to 45 mph. And your assuming I meant accelerated stalls. I know the difference.
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Leave it to Ack-Ack to fill in the blanks..., lol :D
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Leave it to Ack-Ack to fill in the blanks..., lol :D
Be more specific on how you're getting your arse handed to you in a WW1 kite and eventually you'll realize that it's not the plane that is the problem.
ack-ack
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Turn smarter, not harder.
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Turn smarter, not harder.
AKA "Know your kite's limitations". This focus on skidding turns has me wondering about the flight modeled side area of these birds. Has anyone attempted a knife edge? If you can successfully pull off a knife edge in any of these crates, there's something seriously wrong with the flight modeling. Skidding flat turns should not be the best option of out turning someone on your six.
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AKA "Know your kite's limitations". This focus on skidding turns has me wondering about the flight modeled side area of these birds. Has anyone attempted a knife edge? If you can successfully pull off a knife edge in any of these crates, there's something seriously wrong with the flight modeling. Skidding flat turns should not be the best option of out turning someone on your six.
Are you joking? A knife edge is a 90 degree roll from level flight. Why would that be a problem?
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Are you joking? A knife edge is a 90 degree roll from level flight. Why would that be a problem?
Ya, but can you hold the plane in the knife edge without losing your altitude? I'm pretty sure that that is what he meant.
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Im pretty sure that the lead statemant speaks for itself.., perhaps you should learn what the term, "180 degrees" means before attempting to ask for verifacation on what is a very simple manuever..., but ill break down for you so that you might understand...
180 degrees, refers to aircraft "turning" around, and flying in the "opposite" direction from whence the "turn" began.
If you require further information, I suggest you refer to wikipedia..., though im positive you know about the site allready, as most of your posts have thier origin there.
Clairify? :rofl
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Im pretty sure that the lead statemant speaks for itself.., perhaps you should learn what the term, "180 degrees" means before attempting to ask for verifacation on what is a very simple manuever..., but ill break down for you so that you might understand...
180 degrees, refers to aircraft "turning" around, and flying in the "opposite" direction from whence the "turn" began.
If you require further information, I suggest you refer to wikipedia..., though im positive you know about the site allready, as most of your posts have thier origin there.
Clairify? :rofl
Yeah, clarify....what plane were you in and fighting against which plane? Were you in a D.VII and made the 180 turn to the right while fighting a Dr.I or Camel? If you were in a Camel or Dr.I, did you make your 180 turn to the left? Was it a horizontal 180 turn or did you use a Chandelle or Yo-Yo to come 180 degrees?
Honestly, like most of the stuff that you whine about is a direct result of your lack of understanding of the aircraft you fly and of those you fight against. You think that just because you did X maneuver that you should have triumphed without taking into account what your plane can or cannot do in relation to what the bandit's plane can or cannot do. You'll find that this is true in this case as well. The fact that you don't know how you're dying is pretty clear that you don't have a clue at all, which is why you're inclined to think that something is 1) wrong with the flight model or 2) the other person isn't playing on a level playing field.
I could have been harsh in my previous replies and just told you the naked truth, you got shot down because you suck.
ack-ack
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Yeah, clarify....what plane were you in and fighting against which plane? Were you in a D.VII and made the 180 turn to the right while fighting a Dr.I or Camel? If you were in a Camel or Dr.I, did you make your 180 turn to the left? Was it a horizontal 180 turn or did you use a Chandelle or Yo-Yo to come 180 degrees?
Honestly, like most of the stuff that you whine about is a direct result of your lack of understanding of the aircraft you fly and of those you fight against. You think that just because you did X maneuver that you should have triumphed without taking into account what your plane can or cannot do in relation to what the bandit's plane can or cannot do. You'll find that this is true in this case as well. The fact that you don't know how you're dying is pretty clear that you don't have a clue at all, which is why you're inclined to think that something is 1) wrong with the flight model or 2) the other person isn't playing on a level playing field.
I could have been harsh in my previous replies and just told you the naked truth, you got shot down because you suck.
ack-ack
Here lemme help with less words.
"There is always a small microcosm of people who need to explain away their suckage." Slapshot
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"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain."
Friedrich Schiller
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Here lemme help with less words.
"There is always a small microcosm of people who need to explain away their suckage." Slapshot
LOL! Just noticed that's also HiTech's new signature.
ack-ack
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Had a jolly good time with a Camel this morning. Got my arse handed to me by a good pilot in a DR III.
There is a whole world to explore in this WWI world. The only aircraft I have seen being able to extend a bit was the Bristol fighter. And the Camel is one horse to master, but I'm game. It's a trick to turn it, but turn smartly to the left and it is very good. Try to loop and it will fall out to the right. Or am I that bad a stick....
Anyway, trying to disengage with some smartness behind it in a 1 vs 1, it is about impossible. 200 is the distance and that is all. This may change with altitude, as well as aircraft like the Spad or SE5.....
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trying to disengage with some smartness behind it in a 1 vs 1, it is about impossible. 200 is the distance and that is all. This may change with altitude, as well as aircraft like the Spad or SE5.....
Nope, I've downgraded my video card from a GTX285 to a 7900GT so I could get my Stereo 3D back. Man does stereo 3D make a difference in the WW1 arena. Often I've been in my DVII with DR1's on my 6 really close in a turn and managed to turn the situation right around. I'm not going to tell you how ;) but I will say that often it has ended with us wingtip to wingtip :D