Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Yeager on March 16, 2010, 09:51:41 PM

Title: DR1 Roll
Post by: Yeager on March 16, 2010, 09:51:41 PM
Im having a hard time getting this little beast to behave.  The roll response is atrocious it seems....either way left or right, it rolls like an old woman.  Also, the way it wants to slide out of its forward momentum every time I try and pull up and turn either left or right is almost bothersome.  I understand the rotating engine and torque.  Just surprises me how much of a little beotch she is to manhandle.
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: fudgums on March 16, 2010, 09:59:23 PM
Sounds like my ex
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: Rodent57 on March 16, 2010, 10:43:57 PM
To quote an old friend of mine, "The Crazy ones are the best"

and that goes for the DR-1 too!
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: W7LPNRICK on March 17, 2010, 12:20:57 AM
The good stix in those only do turns with a lot of e, then loop himself out of trouble before you lose alt or e.  if you near stall in a steep climbing turn, it will slide sideways like a kite lossing the breeze. :banana:
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: Ghosth on March 17, 2010, 06:52:00 AM
Setup a blip switch for the engine. So you can cut that torque when needed. Also handy in a dive.

Get behind em, kill em fast, and get out.
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: Wagger on March 17, 2010, 07:31:56 AM
For slide try the F.1 Camel.
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: uptown on March 17, 2010, 07:56:14 AM
DO NOT roll in a WW1 plane. You will fall out!  :old:
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: pervert on March 17, 2010, 08:10:05 AM
Sliding out in a turn is a good sign your overcooking it, try more throttle less rudder or less pull. For rolling use throttle, rudder and push the nose down, anticipate their roll they will typically do this in a uniform fashion rolling one way a second or 2 then the other, you don't have to match their roll completely once your on their 6 just start your roll before they make theirs.
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: hitech on March 17, 2010, 09:31:30 AM
Yeager: Unloading before roll make a big diff in the dr1

HiTech
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: Yeager on March 17, 2010, 10:09:33 AM
What is this "offloading" master speaks of?  :old:
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: FLS on March 17, 2010, 10:17:48 AM
The lift created by a wing puts a load on the wing. Pushing your nose down to an angle of attack that does not create lift unloads the wing and makes it easier to roll. The term "unloading" generally refers to reducing AoA.
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: 68ZooM on March 17, 2010, 03:58:44 PM
DR1 when flown right is a quick turnfighter capable of getting to the inside and 6's of many a plane, i try to keep my E up and use throttle to make it turn even tighter  :joystick:
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: Elfie on March 18, 2010, 01:52:28 AM
Quote
The roll response is atrocious it seems....either way left or right, it rolls like an old fat woman.

Fixed....
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: bmwgs on March 18, 2010, 07:02:33 AM
Setup a blip switch for the engine. So you can cut that torque when needed. Also handy in a dive.

Get behind em, kill em fast, and get out.

I'm being serious here and not sarcastic. 

Could any of the WW1 fighters we have in game actually turn off and start their engine in the air.  My understanding is none of these planes had starter motors or other device to start them except for someone yanking on the prop?

I can see where this might be done at altitude in a dive where wind flow will turn the prop, my question is specifically when you are in a turn fight less than a 100 feet off the ground going maybe at best 70 miles per hour.

I have seen several F1's use this tactic in the game, and I'm not sure it really does anything, but was just wondering if any WW1 pilot had the guts to kill their engine in a fight.

I did a quick Goggle and could not find anything that addresses a pilot killing their engine in a dog fight during WW1.

Just wondering

Fred 
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: Ghosth on March 18, 2010, 07:32:13 AM
As long as the prop is turning over, engine will restart. Just like starting a car with a manual shift rolling down a hill. Drop it into gear, key on, pop the clutch and vrrrmooom away you go.

WWI planes, fixed wooden prop, at 50 mph and above creates a lot of force on the prop, enough to keep it windmilling over. Turn the spark back on and VrrrOOOOOOOoooooom away you go again.
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: sluggish on March 18, 2010, 10:36:49 AM
As long as the prop is turning over, engine will restart. Just like starting a car with a manual shift rolling down a hill. Drop it into gear, key on, pop the clutch and vrrrmooom away you go.

WWI planes, fixed wooden prop, at 50 mph and above creates a lot of force on the prop, enough to keep it windmilling over. Turn the spark back on and VrrrOOOOOOOoooooom away you go again.

That may be true but it's more than a little gamey.  I think if you're under a certain airspeed (to be determined by someone with much greater knowledge and authority than I)you shouldn't be able to restart in the air.
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: FLS on March 18, 2010, 10:47:51 AM
That may be true but it's more than a little gamey.  I think if you're under a certain airspeed (to be determined by someone with much greater knowledge and authority than I)you shouldn't be able to restart in the air.

It only seems gamey because you don't know what you're talking about. Cutting the engine, "blipping", was normal and is modeled correctly.
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: JunkyII on March 18, 2010, 11:21:03 AM
Sounds like my ex
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: Motherland on March 18, 2010, 03:53:03 PM
That may be true but it's more than a little gamey. 
Someone should have let the WWI pilots know this...
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: sluggish on March 18, 2010, 04:01:07 PM
Someone should have let the WWI pilots know this...

There's a big difference between momentarily hitting the kill switch to bring rpms down and shutting the motor off to maneuver through a turn.  No one shut their engine of for twenty seconds at a time.
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: TequilaChaser on March 18, 2010, 04:07:36 PM
There's a big difference between momentarily hitting the kill switch to bring rpms down and shutting the motor off to maneuver through a turn.  No one shut their engine of for twenty seconds at a time.

shut your engine off for "20 seconds at a time" during a WWI Arena turn fight with me and you will not reach the 20 second mark, you will be back in the tower......

if someone did that to you, then you need to   Train & Practice  :joystick:  :cheers: :bolt:
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: sluggish on March 18, 2010, 05:09:07 PM
shut your engine off for "20 seconds at a time" during a WWI Arena turn fight with me and you will not reach the 20 second mark, you will be back in the tower......

if someone did that to you, then you need to   Train & Practice  :joystick:  :cheers: :bolt:

Shut your motor off, dive into a steep left turn, turn the motor back on to let the torque pull you out.  Turn your motor off for five seconds, turn it back on as you dive into a steep right turn, shut it back off to pull you back out.  You have just increased the Dr.1's roll rate by about 1/3.  This is probably why the throttle is actually on the stick; using the throttle is an integral part of controlling the Dr.1.  Turning the engine on and off is gamey.

Practice and train indeed.
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: TequilaChaser on March 18, 2010, 05:30:10 PM
you went from:
Quote
shutting the motor off to maneuver through a turn. No one shut their engine of for twenty seconds at a time.

to now:
Quote
Shut your motor off, dive into a steep left turn, turn the motor back on to let the torque pull you out.

then to this:
Quote
Turn your motor off for five seconds, turn it back on as you dive into a steep right turn, shut it back off to pull you back out.

1st, are you looking at ROLL Rate?  or Turn Rate?

second, your 1st post was about "turning a motor off for 20 seconds and turning, without any mention of Steep Diving"

but your follow up was about "Turn Motor off and Steep Diving, then turning it back on, then turning it back off for 5 secs, then turning it back on"

you mention you increase Roll Rate, but you are describing turning and using the motor kill/restart and torque to assist the Turn.....

I am simply just trying to figure out which subject you are talking about now....you lost me with all of the different descriptions.....

I thought your initial post was describing turning off your engine for 20 seconds in a Turn....... you didn't mention what type of turn, so one would most likely assume a horizontal turn.....

oh well........

have fun  :salute
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: sluggish on March 18, 2010, 05:36:37 PM
You do realize that roll is an integral part of a turn, don't you?
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: Ghosth on March 18, 2010, 05:56:33 PM
Your doing good sluggish, just keep digging!
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: W7LPNRICK on March 19, 2010, 02:16:09 PM
MWAHAHAHA! You guys are a riot! :rofl  :bolt:
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: Shuffler on March 19, 2010, 02:27:16 PM
You do realize that roll is an integral part of a turn, don't you?


No but I did know it's something you can butter.
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: hitech on March 19, 2010, 02:37:50 PM
Turn prop off, go into zoom, prop stops, takes about 100 or more mph dive to restart.

HiTech
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: bmwgs on March 19, 2010, 05:23:42 PM
Turn prop off, go into zoom, prop stops, takes about 100 or more mph dive to restart.

HiTech

HiTech, let me make sure I understand this.  In R/L WW1 planes, if the pilot kills the engine then they have to be somewhere around 100 mph or better to start the engine again?  So in other words killing your engine in a slow turn fight would in essence be suicide.

I understand the Aces High modeling may be different, I was just wondering about R/L fighters in WW1.

Fred
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: W7LPNRICK on March 19, 2010, 07:19:16 PM
>100mph If the prop stops...slow turn engine kill is OK as long as prop is turning fast enough to catch. :salute
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: Ghosth on March 19, 2010, 08:43:37 PM
HiTech, let me make sure I understand this.  In R/L WW1 planes, if the pilot kills the engine then they have to be somewhere around 100 mph or better to start the engine again? 
Fred

IF you go nose up until airspeed is low enough for the prop to stop, THEN you have to nose down to 100 mph to get it windmilling again.

If you just blip it for 2 seconds, prop doesn't stop, don't have to dive to spin it up as its already spinning.
Just blip it and go.
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: Cobra516 on March 19, 2010, 11:59:26 PM
It would help if they had added a larger vertical stabilizer / rudder to combat the massive adverse yaw created by the ailerons on those old WWI planes.  

When you deflect the aileron downward, you're increasing the angle of attack of that section of the wing, which creates lift as well as drag.  It's the drag that produces a yawing moment, which tries to pull the wing back paralell the flight path, and is the reason the nose initially yaws in the direction opposite of your roll control input - so you combat this with the application of rudder.  The more aileron deflection you have, the greater the adverse yaw.  It's more pronounced at slow speeds and high angles of attack because the vertical stabilizer loses its ability to dampen the yaw as a result of the reduced airflow over its surface. 

Also, aircraft with longer wingspans experience more severe adverse yaw because the drag force is being applied further away from the center of gravity - so it produces a greater moment of inertia - sailplanes are a good example.

BTW, I thought that many of those WWI airplanes didnt have a throttle control, it was either mags on or off?  

Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: 321BAR on March 20, 2010, 06:56:59 AM
Shut your motor off, dive into a steep left turn, turn the motor back on to let the torque pull you out.  Turn your motor off for five seconds, turn it back on as you dive into a steep right turn, shut it back off to pull you back out.  You have just increased the Dr.1's roll rate by about 1/3.  This is probably why the throttle is actually on the stick; using the throttle is an integral part of controlling the Dr.1.  Turning the engine on and off is gamey.

Practice and train indeed.
ummm..... tell me this: How in God's name is turning a ROTARY engine on and off gamey? the throttle is gamey here...

Cue the modify: Mid War engines could be cut back by 25% on throttle and there was a fine adjustment lever to control fuel comsumption to the engine therefore creating a somewhat usable throttle.
Title: Re: DR1 Roll
Post by: Bino on March 20, 2010, 09:55:15 AM
I once heard Cole Palen ( http://www.oldrhinebeck.org/ (http://www.oldrhinebeck.org/) ) describe a problem with overuse of the ignition cutout on a rotary:

If the ignition was turned off for too long - say, on final approach for landing - the cowling could end up filled with a cloud of unburned fuel mist.  Turning the ignition back on again could sometimes have explosively bad results.  Not all that common an accident, but it was known to happen occasionally.