Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Sokolov on October 14, 2001, 07:42:00 PM
-
PLEASE ADD SOME RUSSIAN TANKS LIKE the T-34/76 or the T-34/85....
Would be nice to see the IS-2 in AH too....
Please think about this !
:(
-
or a tank that kills an m16 in 1 shot? or 2?
-
in fact all we need to AH is more and realistic vehicles and AH would (and it already has in the fighter department) blow WWIIOL out of the water.
-
Realistic vehicle and more cover to them would be nice but if it drops framerates then forget it :)
-
Great idea Staga but I hope that HTC will fix the whole damage model *before* it. We can have T34, Panthers, Fireflyes and so on but they will be only nice artworks till then.
[Rant]IMHO, only real tank hunters should be able to kill/detrack heavy tanks. Or fighters with bombs. Nothing else. We now have the IL-2 and the Hurricane IID. Add the late Stuka and/or the HS-129 we'll have the whole tank killers planeset. Everything else is pure fantasy.[/Rant] ;)
-
Originally posted by gatt:
Everything else is pure fantasy
Yeah...
Typhoon where just used to brass fresh air ;)
-
Hi Straffo,
allied reports about attacks against heavy tanks (in Normandy) by rocket armed Typhoons showed that they were pretty useless. The rockets hit-ratio made them almost useless. I'll try to find something official about it ...
However, they did well against trucks, cars, armoured cars and trains with their 4x20mm, but not againts heavy tanks. Bombs armed fighters did well. Even Hurricanes IID performed badly against Pzr MkIV in North Africa. 4x20mm in real life could not knock out heavy tanks. AFAIK scared german crews often abandoned the tanks thinking they were going to be attacked by bomb armed planes.
From a gameplay point of view, whats the deal to have slow-vulnerable, heavily armed real tank hunters if even a couple of Hispanos could stop a tank? And who will take a tank if even a light P-47 or M16 will be able to stop/detrack them?
Anyway, this is an old debate ;)
[ 10-18-2001: Message edited by: gatt ]
-
I agree with the Uber hispano vs pzr ...
Personally I rarely use my hispanos vs pzr I prefer using bombs || rockets it's my realism touch ;)
I fact I love transforming pzr in "Heat and light" :D and using bombs is a good way ...
(http://british-forces.com/world_war2/Campaigns/normandy/cas2.jp)
(http://british-forces.com/world_war2/Campaigns/normandy/cas3.jp)
Hey HTC what about keeping some wreck on the terrain ? (just for decoration purpose :D)
(http://www.aviatorart.com/trudgian/images/typhoons.jpg)
About Normandie ... well I'm pretty sure that the German at Falaise would have laughed at Piper Cub + peashooter but unfortunatly for them the allied decided to use tyffies ;)
-
Nice paint Straffo :) Anyway, Tiffie crews had to be retrained to use rockets better, even tho they still preferred dive bombing.
During the first 30 days over Normandy they averaged about 300 rockets launched per tank confirmed destroyed (124th Wing report).
They were fighter pilots and after the bomb drop they prefered to have the wings clean, not with ugly rocket rails :)
<S>!
-
right ...
For the same reason I prefer using bombs :)
Btw if you have 300 time more rockets than the enemy as tank you win :D ;) (*)
<S!>
(*) I know I'm twisted and insane :)
-
A Yak 9-T (T meant Tank Killer) could concievably kill a tank with a single well placed round (that info from a world war II aircraft history book) I took a yak 9t up the other day and put about 12 rounds into the tank before it finally blew up. I don't think they were extremely well placed, but I don't understand how he was still pinging me on the 8th or 9th cannon rounds I put through him. A little more realism on the fatality of this monster gun would be appreciated! Thanks!
SpinDoc
-
the t-34 would be more than a match for the current panzer iv...we would need a panther just to balance it out !!!! :p
-
Not even a T34/85 would really outmatch the PzIVH. The 75mm gun of the Panzer IVH, the KwK40 L48 is actually slightly superior to the T34/85s Zis S53 85mmm gun. For example using special high velocity AP ammo at 500meters the German gun penetates 143mm while the soviet gun does 138mm.
Speaking of 76mm T34s. The German 75mm Kwk40 L48 of the Panzer IVH is a vastly superior gun to the Soviet F34 76mm milimeter. For example both guns using special high velocity AP shells at 1000meters the German gun penetrates 97mm of armor while the Soviet weapon only 51mm. And thats goes without even considering the vast qualitative inferiority of wartime Soviet optics. Which were truly awful and far below any western standard and not even in the same category of the world best German optics.
-
Actual optics wont allow Panzer gunners to do their job. In the real life Panther and late MkIV gunners, with their super 75mm cannon, could engage easily at 1-1,5Km and destroy both T34 and Shermans. At that distance they were almost invulnerable to allied and russian guns.
Provided that fighter bombers didnt buzz over their heads :)
-
Now here is something for ya :D
"Continuing past Vienne, and on the open road, I spotted a Tiger tank going as hard as it could towards Lyons. More in hope than anger, I gave it all my remaining ammunition. To my utter amazement it belched smoke and caught fire. When I gave my report to Tim Lucas, the senior army Liaison Officer, he did not believe me, shaking his head and muttering that a Tiger was too tough for the shells of a Spitfire. I got my own back when I took him to the spot in my jeep, after we got to Lyons on 7 September, and showed him the tank. It was there, and I am pleased to say, burnt out, with "Bravo RAF" painted on its blackened hull. To me the sight was worth a couple of Me 109's.
Apparently some armour-piercing incendiary shells had ricocheted off the tarmac road inro the oil tank and engine - pure luck, but very satisfying"
G.Capt. Duncan Smith, DSO, DFC
-
Grun - with all due respect, you can't compare penetration power achieved in tests to the actual field performance. RL T34 will most likely ricochet an AP round off it's sloping hull/turret while T-IV being bizarrely built at right angles all over will most likely swallow it. (RPG-7 shaped charge round will go through 300-450mm of steel plate but it does not mean that each grenade fired claims a tank...)
Panther is a different proposition altogether but since they haven't been "designed" yet... ;) Plus, how do you propose to model difference in optics quality? At the distance where this is noticeable all you get is 1-2 pixels for a target anyway :)
Tank damage models need to be re-done anyway - under no circumstances (save for really obscure stuff like an example above) 20 mm round can do any harm to a turret/hull. Tracks? Maybe. But to "blow-up" a tank with 50 cals or 20mm cannons is a joke :(
-
If you have tried WW2OL you can see the differences in optics in computer game done nicely. Most obvious differences that can be done are:
Magnification and field of vision like real (lot of differences in various tanks).
Accuracy and ease to shoot different ranges and ease of range finding.
-
Originally posted by Sokolov:
PLEASE ADD SOME RUSSIAN TANKS LIKE the T-34/76 or the T-34/85....
Would be nice to see the IS-2 in AH too....
Please think about this !
:(
Id like to see the t34 and pershing II added.
whels
-
Not to nitpick but.... ;)
In regards to the Yak-9T, the T stands for Tyazhelowooruzhenny or "heavily armed". It has nothing to do with "Tank".
True, the NS-37 37mm and the NS-45 45mm are the best anti-tank cannons that I can think of, but even those guns can only penetrate rear, deck/top, and side armor depending on the tank.
And FYI the majority of Yak-9T's, Yak-9K's, and Yak-9UT's were used mostly in an air to air role, and only marginally in an air to ground role.
The rest is urban legend class myth :)
-
I laughed when I first saw the thread. I thought he was talking about the American trainer T34-C. :D (it's because I live near Navy training fields, and we see a lot of them.)
(http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/t-34_2.jpg)
-
Some Russian gun data:
http://www.siemers.com/wwii/Russia/PenetrationTables.htm#762F34 (http://www.siemers.com/wwii/Russia/PenetrationTables.htm#762F34)
When the T-34/76 first started arriving on the battlefields, it completly outmatched anything the germans had.
The T-34/85 did quite well against late war german tanks and saw service well beyond WW2.
More than 34.000 T-34/76's were build and around 18.000 T-34/85's, compared to around 6000 Panthers and 8000 PzIV's.
If any single weaponry of WW2 should be credited with 'winning the war', it should probably be the T-34.
Daff