Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Aces High Bug Reports => Topic started by: MutleyBR on March 18, 2010, 02:58:30 AM
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Hi all!
Before new patches, in WW2 planes, when I had part of a wing missing, I was able to RTB, with difficulty, using manual trim and flying the planes as well as I could.
Now itīs nearly impossible to control them with part of wing missing, using the above.
Once planes lose part of a wing, after the patches, they become too much unstable, to a point that no trim can help.
Was this done on purpose or is it a glitch?
Next time it happens will make a movie and post.
:salute
Mutley
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Sounds to me like they fixed the FM. I've noticed some small differences in the way some planes handle now compared to before. It should be really difficult to fly with "part" of any major structure of a plane missing, wouldn't you say?
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Please re-read what I said.
I said "...I was able to RTB, with difficulty, using manual trim and flying the planes as well as I could..."
Now the planes are too much unstable with part of wing missing.
This is not be the case in real life. If it were so, many wouldnīt have made it home.
Please check this picture of a P-47, used by Brazilian Air Force, In WW2 in Italy. Plane hit a factory chimney doing ground attack, lost part of wing and RTB.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/damopabe/2772784512/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/damopabe/2772784512/)
That is why am asking if this was done on purpose.
Mutley :salute
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but notice in the picture he still has his ailerons. your trim tabs are on your ailerons, elevators, and rudder. without a aileron there is no trim tab; which would keep you from flying.
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but notice in the picture he still has his ailerons. your trim tabs are on your ailerons, elevators, and rudder. without a aileron there is no trim tab; which would keep you from flying.
And who said loss of aileron???
I said "part of a wing missing"...
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But in the game, the "part" of the wing that is "missing" is the wingtip, right? The aileron is on the wingtip? Can you actually lose part of your wing and not lose the aileron (and thus the trim tab on it)?
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thats what i was tryin to say
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We don't have the P-47A6...and did you lose just 50 inches off the tip of the wing on the P-47 you were flying or was it 1/2 of the wing?
Regardless of the fact that the pilot in that picture returned "safely", I'm willing to bet your paycheck it wasn't "easy" by any stretch of the imagination.
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I think what he's asking is simply did they change the handling of the planes with damage? If so was it recorded in the release notes?
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I think what he's asking is simply did they change the handling of the planes with damage? If so was it recorded in the release notes?
From what I've experienced...looks like they changed a lot with the handling of damaged planes...of course at this stage there are probably still some tweaks needed but the new damage model is tougher to deal with.
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We don't have the P-47A6...and did you lose just 50 inches off the tip of the wing on the P-47 you were flying or was it 1/2 of the wing?
Regardless of the fact that the pilot in that picture returned "safely", I'm willing to bet your paycheck it wasn't "easy" by any stretch of the imagination.
Why do I have to keep asking people to re-read the post??? :rolleyes:
I did not employ the word "easy"... Where did you get that??? :rolleyes:
I said "with difficulty". My home language is not English, but I believe that "difficult" is the opposite of easy. Or am I wrong?
And yes, we have P-47, with Brazilian markings in AH...
Please read carefully, before answering... :aok
Mutley :salute
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And yes, we have P-47, with Brazilian markings in AH...
Still not a P-47A6... :D
Ok so "not easy"...what you might want to do next time it happens is look at how much of the wing is missing...I don't know if each plane is different but, I don't recall seeing a wing tip getting shot off on anything I've used in game...it's pretty much 50% or 100%...and with the new damage model, control is going to be very difficult when parts start getting shot off...hopefully we wont see any more Spit16s or Temps fighting with 1/2 a wing.
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Didn't see anything about the new damage model being implemented in WW2 in the release notes.
Don't know if the instability of the WW2 planes damaged has been tweaked. I didn't see anything in the release notes about that either. So it could be an issue or not. Until someone from HTC says one way or another I guess we wont really know.
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38s loose a wing tip often... well mine do, and it is very hard to see the difference, but you certainly can feel it. Murdr had a picture post once and you could see it, but only because they were side by side.
As for the OP I think the only "damage" change they made in WWII is Horizontal stabilizers can now be destroyed independently of each other. I don't often get the chance to limp home in a damaged plane. If I took that kind of damage the other 7 bad guys are certainly going to finish me off before long :D
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With difficulty and by trimming it is possible to rtb. Notch of flaps down can be helpful. It stabilizes the plane very well.
:salute
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gyrene, when you guys have been around longer you might not have commented as you did. bow, imadot, you two seem to have been around long enough to know better.
Countless WW2 planes came back in horrible mangled fashion, but they got home.
In AH, you can most times use the EXISTING aileron to roll toward the intact wing. It requires a lot of effort and concentration, and you cannot use autopilot or combat trim, but you can make it back. Landing? That's another question.
I'd be much more inclined to think something's up with the stability. I recall quite clearly many times in the past where I've lost both outboard wingtips so the roll effect mostly nullifies itself, and rudder use helps you fly home. These were long ago, though. Lately, I've had it happen a few times in recent AH history, but the plane was so unstable and bouncing around across all axes -- even with flaps out -- that it was uncontrollable.
Being able to maintain some resemblence of control with 1 wingtip missing is normal and intentional in this game.
What he's saying in his post is that he can't do that anymore. Something has significantly changed. Many people who have been around longer and paying more attention than you all are noticing many changes with the latest patches, and he is reporting one of them in an attempt to report a bug, or to find out from HTC if this is something other than a bug.
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gyrene, when you guys have been around longer you might not have commented as you did. bow, imadot, you two seem to have been around long enough to know better.
Countless WW2 planes came back in horrible mangled fashion, but they got home.
In AH, you can most times use the EXISTING aileron to roll toward the intact wing. It requires a lot of effort and concentration, and you cannot use autopilot or combat trim, but you can make it back. Landing? That's another question.
I'd be much more inclined to think something's up with the stability. I recall quite clearly many times in the past where I've lost both outboard wingtips so the roll effect mostly nullifies itself, and rudder use helps you fly home. These were long ago, though. Lately, I've had it happen a few times in recent AH history, but the plane was so unstable and bouncing around across all axes -- even with flaps out -- that it was uncontrollable.
Being able to maintain some resemblence of control with 1 wingtip missing is normal and intentional in this game.
What he's saying in his post is that he can't do that anymore. Something has significantly changed. Many people who have been around longer and paying more attention than you all are noticing many changes with the latest patches, and he is reporting one of them in an attempt to report a bug, or to find out from HTC if this is something other than a bug.
Thanks Krusty.
You explained it very well, specially in the 2 last paragraphs. :aok :salute
Mutley
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Elevator damage FM has changed also.
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lots of planes rtb with 1/2 a wing, but not with 1/2 wing missing on both sides. and the planes would not fly at full speed, like they do (or did). rtb with 1/2 a wing was the exception, if you consider that as soon as the wing came off, the pilot bailed and I bet most of the ones that returned were hit by ack, not by another plane. you have all seen movies with different planes that lost 1/2 a wing and the pilot lots control right away..
semp
btw 1/2 a wing is not a wing tip but that's another story.
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Yes guncrasher... you must be right... because you're basing your facts on some movies.....
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not sure if there is much of a difference, I've still been able to land F4U's with half a wing on CV's. Now i have noticed my half a wing is coming off with 1 hit more often.
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Krusty, I've been around long enough to know the D-models handle differently than the M model when part of a wing is missing...the M and N models are easier to stabilize than any of the D-models...and there is a difference in handling between the left wing and the right wing due to the engine torque...max speed for stability is different as well...if you have flap damage on one wing and missing part of the other wing...forget it.
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Actually.. if you have flap damage on the intact wing, and parts missing on the OTHER wing, that is the best situation you can find yourself in. You drop your flaps a couple notches. The damaged flap stays put, and the working flap adds lift to the damaged wing.
In effect, it cancels out the missing parts.
The M and D wings are exactly the same, FYI. The N has more surface area (squared tips) but only slightly so.
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Yes guncrasher... you must be right... because you're basing your facts on some movies.....
yup and those movies were shot from the gun cameras of ww2 airplanes. but who u gonna believe the gun cameras or..(insert another sarcastic comment here )
semp
btw does anybody know if missing 1/2 the wing would disable the hydraulic system in the plane?
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i dont believe there would be any kind of hydraulics in the wings. but it would prolly leak fuel.
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I agree wholeheartedly!!!
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I think missing one aileron would eliminate 1/2 your trim and not all of it. Your also going to have to use rudder and lots of up elevator to keep it flying, along with throttle inputs.
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Just for the record, I was dogfighting in my B25 earlier, and for the first time ever I managed to lose one vertical slab and the associated elevator and rudder. Initially it entered a spin, but when I recovered after about half a revolution, I found that the plane was not only stable, but also pleasantly manoeuvrable.
I'm not complaining about the apparent gain in manoeuvrability, however this definitely seems strange to me. First, I lost an elevator, and of course the plane became substantially less manoeuvrable, however it seems illogical that:
a) it would initially enter a spin, but then be fully controllable, and
b) by losing yet more control surfaces, I would actually gain manoeuvrability...this seems sort of the wrong way round.
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GUNCRASHER,
I've flown both F4s and F15s home with dead wings (in the real world) do to "hydraulics" loss...its not fun, but certainly doable.
-Rodent57
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GUNCRASHER,
I've flown both F4s and F15s home with dead wings (in the real world) do to "hydraulics" loss...its not fun, but certainly doable.
-Rodent57
I know that can be done, but was talking about if missing 1/2 a wing will kill they hydraulics controls too. something that has always bothered me in the game is when a plane loses 1/2 a wing and it can still fly at full speed, I dont think that was possible in RL. and please do not call missing 1/2 a wing "wingtip".
semp
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It's a matter of lift and airspeed. The wings make more lift than necessary to keep the plane level. With enough airspeed you can keep going using the remaining aileron to keep that wing down. When you drop below the speed where you can maintain deflection with that aileron (less airflow, less downward force) you can no longer do it.
That's why it's easy enough to fly with part of your wing missing in AH, but not so easy to land. Landing usualy falls well below that controllable state.
P.S. hardly any WW2 planes had hydraulic aileron controls. Some had "boosted" controls, but there was always a physical connection to the ailerons somewhere.
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Keep in mind that the graphical representation of what is missing does not necessarily match what the flight model considers to be missing. In other words, the graphics can make it look like you are missing 30% of the wing's area while the flight model considers a wing in that damage state to be missing 10% of its area.
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I know that can be done, but was talking about if missing 1/2 a wing will kill they hydraulics controls too. something that has always bothered me in the game is when a plane loses 1/2 a wing and it can still fly at full speed, I dont think that was possible in RL. and please do not call missing 1/2 a wing "wingtip".
semp
I bet some or even most of our planes didn't use hydraulic controls. The Mig-15 didn't even have hydraulics.
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flew a 190A5 home (Missing both wing only stubs left) with just my elevators and rudder (engine prop rotation was a key factor!!) wasnt easy at all but i have no film :(