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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Eric122 on March 22, 2010, 08:33:37 PM

Title: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: Eric122 on March 22, 2010, 08:33:37 PM
Heres an article I found on this russian bomber. We need at least 1 Large russian bomber in WW2.

Ilyushin IL-4
 
One of the great bombers of the war which can be termed as a “Forgotten Aircraft”, the Ilyushin IL-4 was overshadowed in Western thinking by the British and American aircraft. In spite of this, well over 5,000 IL-4s were produced between 1937 and 1944. The system was a commendably success. Its design was sound although a poor defensive armament array ultimately led to high and unacceptable losses to the extent that production was completed by 1944. Still, it kept serving till the end of the war.


The original prototype of this low-wing twin-engine bomber, was designated the TsKB-26. It started its flying in 1935, was developed through the TsKB-30. It entered into actual production in 1937 as the DB-3B. DB was a Russian acronym for Long Range Bomber.


Earlier versions were carrying 571kW M-85 engines, but got replaced by 716kW M-86s in 1938. It had a tough and simple design but the aircraft suffered from a poor defensive mechanism of a single nose, dorsal and ventral 7.62mm guns. In 1939 a modified version with lengthened nose and as more armored version (the DB-3F) appeared. In 1940, it was designated as IL-4. Each wing had engines, and the cockpit was located right between them. The nose section offered good visibility that helped its cause. Crew accommodated four personnel. Armaments were mounted in the nose, the dorsal turret position and a ventral gun position. Though where the defensive side of the IL-4 failed, the offensive nature of the system was just unbeatable with up to three 1,102lb torpedoes which could carry a standard limit of 2,205 pounds of drop bombs.


The aircraft in service took part in the attack on Berlin. Few variants existed but all were pretty identical to the original production. Each variant had improved armament capabilities.




Specifications


Crew: 4 (pilot, navigator, gunner/wireless-operator, rear gunner)
Length: 14.80 m (48 ft 6.75 in)
Wingspan: 21.44 m (70 ft 4.5 in)
Height: 4.10 m (13 ft 5.5 in)
Wing area: 66.7 m² (718 ft²)
Empty weight: 5,800 kg (12,787 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 11,300 kg (24,912 lb)
Engine: 2× Tumansky M-88B radial engines, 820 kW (1,100 hp) each
Maximum speed: 430 km/h (232 kn, 267 mph)
Range: 3,800 km (2,052 nmi, 2,361 mi)
Service ceiling: 9,700 m (31,825 ft)
Armament: 2 × 7.62 mm ShKAS machine guns
1 × 12.7 mm Berezin UB machine gun
Up to 2,500 kg (5,500 lb) of bombs or mines. Alternatively, 1 × 940 kg (2,072 lb) 45-36-AN or 45-36-AV torpedo. Very rarely, 2 × BETAB-750DS 305mm rockets.


(http://)


 
source:http://www.world-war-2-planes.com/Ilyushin-IL-4.html

 
 
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: guncrasher on March 22, 2010, 08:37:07 PM
sounds like a goon with a couple of bombs.

semp
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: Motherland on March 22, 2010, 08:39:24 PM
The DB-3/Il-4 was one of the most important Soviet bombers, particularly in the earlier parts of the war.
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: Eric122 on March 22, 2010, 08:41:15 PM
there are "large" bombers for every other country except Russia. Why not a russian bomber sort of like the b25
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: BrownBaron on March 22, 2010, 09:35:41 PM
I beg to differ! Where's my facist Italian heavy bomber?
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: Karnak on March 22, 2010, 09:47:16 PM
I beg to differ! Where's my facist Italian heavy bomber?
They never had one in squadron service.  And Italy is a minor player compared to Russia.
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: Rino on March 22, 2010, 10:50:16 PM
They never had one in squadron service.  And Italy is a minor player compared to Russia.

     Wasn't the Piaggio P-108 in squadron service?  Admittedly in small numbers and with a fairly
high percentage of operational losses.
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: Karnak on March 22, 2010, 11:06:00 PM
    Wasn't the Piaggio P-108 in squadron service?  Admittedly in small numbers and with a fairly
high percentage of operational losses.
So far as I know a total of 24 of the bomber version were built, so they may have been at squadron strength, or they may have been used in dribs and drabs, never reaching full quadron strength due to losses.  Something like 15 of the transport versions were built.

Compare that to the approximately 1350 SM.79s built and there is no way that the P.108 can be justified as the Italian bomber in AH, when one is added.
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: RaptorL on March 23, 2010, 07:00:47 AM
+
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: Rino on March 23, 2010, 07:29:00 AM
So far as I know a total of 24 of the bomber version were built, so they may have been at squadron strength, or they may have been used in dribs and drabs, never reaching full quadron strength due to losses.  Something like 15 of the transport versions were built.

Compare that to the approximately 1350 SM.79s built and there is no way that the P.108 can be justified as the Italian bomber in AH, when one is added.

Since when do we have to "justify" an addition to the planeset?  Alot of folks here have strong opinions on
what is "needed", it doesn't mean that other additions are somehow disqualified.  Any addition is a good
thing, period.
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: Krusty on March 23, 2010, 09:53:03 AM
So you're saying the German Amerika Bomber would be a good addition? Despite the fact that it had NO hope of ever making it off paper, let alone off the European continent, and hadn't a fart's chance in the wind of making it to the US during WW2's time frame?

Then let's not forget the tool that kept requesting B-2 stealth bombers, F/A-18s, etc.


Yes, you have to justify them.
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: Reschke on March 23, 2010, 10:29:22 AM
To me the IL-4 actually looks a lot like the Jap Ki-67

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Russia---Air/Ilyushin-Il-4/1146416/M/

At least from the front it does...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Ki-67
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: Krusty on March 23, 2010, 10:30:54 AM
It's a bit more ungainly. Ki67 has more of a cigar shape, whereas the Il4 is more squared off and has this ungainly "hump" right where the cockpit is.

Some more angles of it here:
http://www.internetmodeler.com/2002/february/aviation/il4.htm
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 23, 2010, 12:31:13 PM
The IL-4 would be a great addition and would help fill in the gap for an early/mid war bomber medium bomber.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: gyrene81 on March 23, 2010, 12:54:37 PM
Finally Eric makes a logical post... :aok
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: Eric122 on March 23, 2010, 03:22:50 PM
Finally Eric makes a logical post... :aok

I did my research on this one i think it would fill the gap and id use it as much as i could
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: haphazardleek on March 23, 2010, 03:35:28 PM
+1
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: Liberator on March 23, 2010, 08:20:46 PM
We do need a Soviet bomber. This plane would add a lot to the game.
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: Eric122 on March 23, 2010, 08:47:02 PM
i think it would be a good addition   :airplane:  :joystick:
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: Eric122 on March 23, 2010, 08:51:32 PM
this is probably my most realistic and useable wish
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: Eric122 on March 24, 2010, 07:36:49 PM
sounds like a goon with a couple of bombs.

semp

 the offensive nature of the system was just unbeatable with up to three 1,102lb torpedoes which could carry a standard limit of 2,205 pounds of drop bombs
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: 321BAR on March 24, 2010, 07:52:16 PM
IL-4 sounds great but what about the Pe-2 and give us the dang Yak-7 and the ever so wonderful Yak-3!!! :x
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: Eric122 on March 24, 2010, 08:03:16 PM
IL-4 sounds great but what about the Pe-2 and give us the dang Yak-7 and the ever so wonderful Yak-3!!! :x

and if we get those we should get the U-2 biplane used in stalingrad
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: 321BAR on March 24, 2010, 08:13:07 PM
and if we get those we should get the U-2 biplane used in stalingrad
:huh :huh :huh :huh :huh :huh :huh :huh :huh :huh
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: Motherland on March 24, 2010, 09:23:39 PM
:huh :huh :huh :huh :huh :huh :huh :huh :huh :huh
The Polikarpov U-2 was the most produced aircraft to serve in WWII (40,000+ built). It was used in all sorts of applications including as a bomber. Since its cruise speed was much slower than the stall speed of any German fighter in service from the start of Barbarossa, German fighters sometimes had trouble intercepting it.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Bundesarchiv_Bild_169-0112%2C_Russland%2C_erbeutetes_Flugzeug_Po-2.jpg)
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: 321BAR on March 24, 2010, 11:32:37 PM
The Polikarpov U-2 was the most produced aircraft to serve in WWII (40,000+ built). It was used in all sorts of applications including as a bomber. Since its cruise speed was much slower than the stall speed of any German fighter in service from the start of Barbarossa, German fighters sometimes had trouble intercepting it.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Bundesarchiv_Bild_169-0112%2C_Russland%2C_erbeutetes_Flugzeug_Po-2.jpg)
ahh ok then.
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: gyrene81 on March 25, 2010, 09:55:31 AM
The Polikarpov U-2 was the most produced aircraft to serve in WWII (40,000+ built). It was used in all sorts of applications including as a bomber. Since its cruise speed was much slower than the stall speed of any German fighter in service from the start of Barbarossa, German fighters sometimes had trouble intercepting it.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Bundesarchiv_Bild_169-0112%2C_Russland%2C_erbeutetes_Flugzeug_Po-2.jpg)
Yeah, the Ruskkies used them for night raids on front line German airfields...  :lol ...the Germans looked on them with disdain and some humor because they would fly along at low alt, drop a couple of 50lbs bombs and even grenades on the fields...injure a few people, damage some equipment, etc...regular "washing machine charlie" is all that thing was.
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: Eric122 on March 25, 2010, 06:46:26 PM
Yeah, the Ruskkies used them for night raids on front line German airfields...  :lol ...the Germans looked on them with disdain and some humor because they would fly along at low alt, drop a couple of 50lbs bombs and even grenades on the fields...injure a few people, damage some equipment, etc...regular "washing machine charlie" is all that thing was.
But in Stalingrad it was effective
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: 321BAR on March 26, 2010, 09:10:47 AM
But in Stalingrad it was effective
how so? :headscratch:
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: gyrene81 on March 26, 2010, 09:23:36 AM
But in Stalingrad it was effective
In what war? Rudel described one incident in his book as a laughable minor irritation to their nightly activities.
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: Eric122 on March 26, 2010, 04:29:36 PM
In what war? Rudel described one incident in his book as a laughable minor irritation to their nightly activities.
i read this somewhere and i found it again so here it is 

they were nuisance raiders with targets usually of little strategic importance, but the psychological effect of the terror raids had a major effect on the Germans
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 26, 2010, 04:36:55 PM
In what war? Rudel described one incident in his book as a laughable minor irritation to their nightly activities.

The material effect these raids were rather insignificant but it did have a psychological impact with the night harassment missions.  How big of a psychological impact?  Not sure but probably along the same levels as the night harassment raids by the Allies and Axis forces.

I know that USAAF squadrons in the Pacific hated it when the Japanese flew harassment missions as it usually resulted in a loss of a night's sleep and increased stress as a result.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: Eric122 on March 26, 2010, 04:44:26 PM
The material effect these raids were rather insignificant but it did have a psychological impact with the night harassment missions.  How big of a psychological impact?  Not sure but probably along the same levels as the night harassment raids by the Allies and Axis forces.

I know that USAAF squadrons in the Pacific hated it when the Japanese flew harassment missions as it usually resulted in a loss of a night's sleep and increased stress as a result.


ack-ack

your probably right but lets get back onto the topic of the IL-4 because this thread was  hijacked by myself so...............


anyway, anyone else think we should get the IL-4
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: 321BAR on March 27, 2010, 06:46:16 AM
your probably right but lets get back onto the topic of the IL-4 because this thread was  hijacked by myself so...............


anyway, anyone else think we should get the IL-4
only if i get my M-18
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: gyrene81 on March 27, 2010, 12:33:05 PM
After we get some other medium Russkie bombers.

Rather see the Pe-2 and Pe-3 first...there was another one but I can't remember it's designation...DB-3?
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: Motherland on March 27, 2010, 12:35:42 PM
DB-3?
AKA Il-4 :)
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: Eric122 on March 30, 2010, 04:50:43 PM
only if i get my M-18

i wanted that too
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: 321BAR on March 31, 2010, 06:32:12 AM
i wanted that too
ive wanted it ALOT longer than you eric :aok
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: RaptorL on April 03, 2010, 09:52:44 PM
 I want it. +
Title: Re: Ilyushin IL-4 bomber
Post by: 321BAR on April 03, 2010, 10:09:24 PM
I want it. +
+1 also