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Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Eric122 on March 25, 2010, 10:54:42 PM

Title: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: Eric122 on March 25, 2010, 10:54:42 PM
any tips? i can do snap rolls and a split s but i never am able to outmaneuver anyone. (thats why i usually stick to bombing with gunners)
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: Bruv119 on March 26, 2010, 05:03:37 AM
any tips? i can do snap rolls and a split s but i never am able to outmaneuver anyone. (thats why i usually stick to bombing with gunners)

turn off your stall limiter in flight preferences is the first thing to do.  The next is to optimise all of your stick settings so that whatever stick you are using has the right amount of scaling / deadband.  So that you can maintain control of the aircraft when you are pulling hard.  The stall buzzer and buffet effect gives you a good indication of when you are slow enough to enter a spin.

The view system in AH is very good so make sure you have all of the best head positions saved.  Also make sure you have everything mapped so that you can track your enemy easily.   "Lose sight,  Lose the fight".

After flying on some un familiar setups at a meet recently I take for granted how well I have every thing setup on my rig.  Trying to fly on anything else is just a chore.  This game takes ages to get fully up to speed on every little detail.  The people you are fighting have gone through the mill so to speak and years of experience is a very valuable tool in the MA's.

Get with a trainer and they will be best placed to help you get the most out of your setup.  

Good luck  :aok
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: SIK1 on March 26, 2010, 09:59:50 AM
Contact a trainer and set up some training sessions.

Go to:
http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/
There is a lot of helpful info on that page.

I would also suggest:
http://www.netaces.org/

You could also go to the TA and ask for help. Just because there isn't a trainer there doesn't mean no one will help you, just ask.

That should be a start.
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: Eric122 on March 26, 2010, 04:41:22 PM
let me give a little more information about my problems. i always end up in a position where there is no possible way to maneuver out of it and get behind an enemy and i have a tendedcy to  accidentily turn out of a fight and show the underside of my airplane
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: SIK1 on March 26, 2010, 04:48:26 PM
Go see a trainer... They can help you out with everything from BFM to advanced ACM.
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: kingcobradude on March 26, 2010, 11:39:27 PM
see a trainer. and always make sure you gots enough go go juice loaded
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: Rodent57 on March 27, 2010, 01:30:11 AM
Eric,

IF you are available, stop by the training arena later on this AM (Saturday 27 March) and I'll be glad to work with you.

IF we miss each other, PM me and we'll set up a time.

What the veterans above have said is exactly true.

-Rodent57
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: stealth on March 27, 2010, 02:55:24 AM
The way I see it trainings ok with learning stuff like a split s and all those maneuvers,and technical stuff like what key is it to open bombbay and all that.Really if you wanna learn to fly well just see what everybody else does in about 2 months you'll get a feel and how you like to fly and what maneuvers you wanna do.First things first work on your aim if you haven't already.
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: fuzeman on March 27, 2010, 03:17:21 AM
STRONGLY recommend reading articles at the Trainers site and hooking up with one if you can. They will and DO teach more than just basic ACM, air combat maneuvers.
Silly as it sounds, it's important to not let them get behind you as you then have to hope or force them to make a mistake, which can be difficult to say the least. You really need to work on SA, situational awareness or knowing whats going on around you at all times, and maneuver against the enemy long before they do saddle up on your six.
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: The Fugitive on March 27, 2010, 08:09:02 AM
The way I see it trainings ok with learning stuff like a split s and all those maneuvers,and technical stuff like what key is it to open bombbay and all that.Really if you wanna learn to fly well just see what everybody else does in about 2 months you'll get a feel and how you like to fly and what maneuvers you wanna do.First things first work on your aim if you haven't already.


....or you could spend a few hours with a trainer and learn more. Working with a trainer is like a condensed version. Sure you could spend hours shooting drones and practice your aim and maybe see a small improvement on your hit percentage, or you could spend an hour with a trainer and see your hit percentage more than double. You can watch other fly and follow them around for weeks to "see how they do it" or you could spend a couple of hour with a trainer and KNOW how they do it and do it yourself.

Our trainers are top notch and are very good at tweaking that little bit more out of your flying.
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: Spikes on March 27, 2010, 08:17:55 AM
Once you see a trainer you'll understand what is "wrong" and "right". Then you can watch films after you die to see what you did wrong in that particular situation, and learn to correct it.
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: uptown on March 27, 2010, 09:04:24 AM
Anyone mentioned seeing a trainer yet  :x
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: stealth on March 27, 2010, 08:37:49 PM

....or you could spend a few hours with a trainer and learn more. Working with a trainer is like a condensed version. Sure you could spend hours shooting drones and practice your aim and maybe see a small improvement on your hit percentage, or you could spend an hour with a trainer and see your hit percentage more than double. You can watch other fly and follow them around for weeks to "see how they do it" or you could spend a couple of hour with a trainer and KNOW how they do it and do it yourself.

Our trainers are top notch and are very good at tweaking that little bit more out of your flying.
Yes very true.I train my squaddies often.I say they won't learn much from me telling them ok a split s goes like this you do that.You don't learn much from it.If you wanna learn to be a good pilot that bad,dogfight him.Basically learn it all your self.Just practice a couple times a week.You'll be good in no time.Plus you get the joy that says,you've accomplished something by your self.
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: crazierthanu on March 27, 2010, 08:45:09 PM
Yes very true.I train my squaddies often.I say they won't learn much from me telling them ok a split s goes like this you do that.You don't learn much from it.If you wanna learn to be a good pilot that bad,dogfight him.Basically learn it all your self.Just practice a couple times a week.You'll be good in no time.Plus you get the joy that says,you've accomplished something by your self.
I KNOW the trainers teach more than BFM in their sessions with newer players, and is much more complex than showing them how to do the maneuver.
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: SIK1 on March 27, 2010, 10:18:41 PM
This is just piss poor advice.

Yes very true.I train my squaddies often.I say they won't learn much from me telling them ok a split s goes like this you do that.You don't learn much from it.If you wanna learn to be a good pilot that bad,dogfight him.Basically learn it all your self.Just practice a couple times a week.You'll be good in no time.Plus you get the joy that says,you've accomplished something by your self.

Working with a trainer will help you in many ways. First off if a trainer tells you something you can bet that it is the way it works in game. You can also bet that if a trainer doesn't know he'll tell you that too and try to find out what the correct answer is. A trainer will help you break, or better yet not pick up bad habits. The trainers are all volunteers that want nothing more than for you to be successful in AH. Why struggle and get frustrated trying to go it alone, when the trainers are there for everyone that has a need.
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: The Fugitive on March 27, 2010, 10:21:41 PM
Yes very true.I train my squaddies often.I say they won't learn much from me telling them ok a split s goes like this you do that.You don't learn much from it.If you wanna learn to be a good pilot that bad,dogfight him.Basically learn it all your self.Just practice a couple times a week.You'll be good in no time.Plus you get the joy that says,you've accomplished something by your self.


...and if you have a bad habit and turn a turn too tight all the time how are you going to learn anything other than how to die. A trainer will point out that small mistake and show you how to improve from flight to flight. If you want to learn how to fight, get with a trainer and save your self a lot of time and frustration!
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: stealth on March 27, 2010, 10:32:02 PM

...and if you have a bad habit and turn a turn too tight all the time how are you going to learn anything other than how to die. A trainer will point out that small mistake and show you how to improve from flight to flight. If you want to learn how to fight, get with a trainer and save your self a lot of time and frustration!
Well again yes a trainer teaches you all that stuff.In the end though all a trainer does is show you the door,in the end your the one that has to walk through it not him.
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: The Fugitive on March 27, 2010, 10:45:32 PM
Well again yes a trainer teaches you all that stuff.In the end though all a trainer does is show you the door,in the end your the one that has to walk through it not him.

.......he shows you the door, he shows you how to open it, he shows you how to step through without tripping over the threshold, and he shows you how to close the door. He does a LOT more than "just show you the door". Yes you still have to do the work, but it's much easier to do with out all the mistakes the blind man has trying to get through that door.
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: stealth on March 27, 2010, 11:07:45 PM
.......he shows you the door, he shows you how to open it, he shows you how to step through without tripping over the threshold, and he shows you how to close the door. He does a LOT more than "just show you the door". Yes you still have to do the work, but it's much easier to do with out all the mistakes the blind man has trying to get through that door.
LOL yep he does all that stuff to he also shows you how to fix the door if it gets broken.Doesn't matter to much in the after math of your skills long as you get the job done,and have fun. :)
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: Yossarian on March 28, 2010, 04:13:25 AM
LOL yep he does all that stuff to he also shows you how to fix the door if it gets broken.

So in other words, TRAINERS FTW!   :D
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: Eric122 on March 30, 2010, 10:15:40 AM
ill start working with a trainer soon but id also like to see what advice you all can give me (besidesork with a trainer. this is how my usual dogfight goes.

I merge and pull an emmelman above my opponent (so do they). i end up being chased low about 100 feet and either crash or get shot up. They usually turn inside of me and i lose sight of them what am i doing wrong :headscratch:
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: fuzeman on March 30, 2010, 01:01:29 PM
Well, anytime you loose sight of the enemy, it's not a good thing. You should be able to track a maneuvering enemy and keep sight of him. Of course there are times, for example if he flies under you, that you will loose sight but you should have a good idea of where to regain sight.

As for them turning inside of you, are you flying around full throttle all the time? Speed is good but too much speed especially in turns increases your turn radius and if the enemy chops his throttle he might reduce is turn radius to where he can turn inside you. This brings up the discussion of turn rate and turn radius too. A small turn radius is good but if your turn rate is better, even if you have a larger turn radius a better turn rate will let you get around a larger turn radius before the opponent.

Just a couple of things to consider.
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: SPKmes on March 30, 2010, 03:57:08 PM
ill start working with a trainer soon but id also like to see what advice you all can give me (besidesork with a trainer. this is how my usual dogfight goes.

I merge and pull an emmelman above my opponent (so do they). i end up being chased low about 100 feet and either crash or get shot up. They usually turn inside of me and i lose sight of them what am i doing wrong :headscratch:

Sounds like a speed thing....Are you getting below the con on your merges......Keep taking the fight up as much as you can, this entails you learn your plane so you know just how far you can push it(stick to one ride for a few tours win or lose)...If you are unable to pull up a second time (after a 1.5 straight run merge) you are possibly pulling too hard and losing too much E....

Can you post some film?...many guys here can and will help but your explanation of how your fight goes is not that much help alone, there are just so many variables.
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: morfiend on March 30, 2010, 04:55:00 PM
 Eric,

  You pretty much answered your own question,I lose sight,what am I doing wrong....


  Lose sight, lose fight thats an old saying thought up by a much wiser man than I!

 I'd ask you if you have your views adjusted properly,then I'd ask if you pull so hard you blackout,doing your immelman?
 Sure you can listen to guys like Stealth and learn on your own,that might take a few years and you'd be ok.Or you could listen to the guys who've been around a few years and suggest you get some training and maybe with lots of practice you can be Ok in a few months.

 Really it's up to you and thats the 1 thing Stealth got right,only you can put in the time and effort to become better,there's many ways to do it but the best way is to get some type of training,practice,apply then train somemore......and so on!

   :salute
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: The Fugitive on March 30, 2010, 05:07:36 PM
ill start working with a trainer soon but id also like to see what advice you all can give me (besidesork with a trainer. this is how my usual dogfight goes.

I merge and pull an emmelman above my opponent (so do they). i end up being chased low about 100 feet and either crash or get shot up. They usually turn inside of me and i lose sight of them what am i doing wrong :headscratch:


There are so many thing going on during a fight that a little blurb of info you have posted here isn't much to go on. A number of people have given a couple of tips that can help, but there may be many other things you are missing.

Flying with a trainer will give you instant feedback from so one who knows what to look for. Another option is for you to film your flights and post the films here on the boards. Most will give you tips on what "they" see, or what "they" would have done.
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: Masherbrum on March 31, 2010, 08:17:32 AM
LOL yep he does all that stuff to he also shows you how to fix the door if it gets broken.Doesn't matter to much in the after math of your skills long as you get the job done,and have fun. :)

I have a request.   If you're going to quote a WWII veteran, please exercise proper grammar/spelling.   Show some true pride for the veteran and fix the "half" and "or", throw in some commas as well.   You're quoting a veteran and I'm not being a grammar Nazi.   Just show the veteran you've quoted, that you care.
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: Masherbrum on March 31, 2010, 08:18:58 AM

There are so many thing going on during a fight that a little blurb of info you have posted here isn't much to go on. A number of people have given a couple of tips that can help, but there may be many other things you are missing.

Flying with a trainer will give you instant feedback from so one who knows what to look for. Another option is for you to film your flights and post the films here on the boards. Most will give you tips on what "they" see, or what "they" would have done.

Fugi and SIK have given the best advice.   
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 31, 2010, 12:21:37 PM
The way I see it trainings ok with learning stuff like a split s and all those maneuvers,and technical stuff like what key is it to open bombbay and all that.Really if you wanna learn to fly well just see what everybody else does in about 2 months you'll get a feel and how you like to fly and what maneuvers you wanna do.First things first work on your aim if you haven't already.

This is bad advice and one should not follow it if they wish to improve themselves.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: BaldEagl on March 31, 2010, 12:46:21 PM
The way I see it trainings ok with learning stuff like a split s and all those maneuvers,and technical stuff like what key is it to open bombbay and all that.Really if you wanna learn to fly well just see what everybody else does in about 2 months you'll get a feel and how you like to fly and what maneuvers you wanna do.First things first work on your aim if you haven't already.

Worst advice ever.  I've been playing for 14 years.  A couple of months ago I spent some time in the TA with MtnMan and it was the best two hour investment I've ever made.  Even if you think you know it all you can still learn more and the trainers know a lot more than teaching simple manouvers and what keys to hit.
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: Masherbrum on March 31, 2010, 12:57:39 PM
Not meant as a flame, but an recollection from another post.

IIRC, Stealth is 12 years old.  From Banshee's weekend "I'm finally 18" thread:

Congratulations I won't be 18 for another 6 years.

This explains the very misleading "advice" he's "giving out to others".   

Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: thorsim on April 03, 2010, 03:54:27 AM
my advice is to "just say no" to dogfights, nothing good ever comes of them ...

 :aok
Title: Re: Need some help with dogfighting
Post by: crazierthanu on April 03, 2010, 10:13:41 AM
my advice is to "just say no" to dogfights, nothing good ever comes of them ...

 :aok

You know, that's some pretty stinky bait your using. But since this the help and training forum, I'm going to help and tell everyone not to listen to you.  :aok