Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Guppy35 on April 04, 2010, 11:54:38 PM
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With all this talk of 20mm Mustangs and long range tanks, I thought I'd better make sure I was accurate. Turns out I was wrong. I found some references to an obscure variant of the P51 better known as the P51VLR(20mm)
Apparently prior to the capture of Iwo Jima there were concerns about escorting the B29s all the way to Japan. North American went to work on the basic Mustang design and came up with this beauty.
Specifications were:
P51VLR(20mm)
-Pressurized cockpit for high altitude flight
-Wings lengthened and strengthened to take 300 gallon DTs.
-Wings also sealed up to "wet wing' configuration so that all internal space outside of guns and ammo housed more fuel. Test flights of up to 16 hours were flown.
-4 20mm cannon. There had been concerns with the hitting power of 6 50cals against bombers up high so this was tested out. Improved Tempest style Hispanos were used.
-Ability to carry 2000 pound bombs in place of drop tanks.
-10 rockets on zero length rocket rails outboard of the 300 gallon DTs or 2000 pound bombs.
-Auto-pilot so that pilots could rest on the way to a target
-Radar pod on the end of the right wing. This was similar to what Marine Corsair and Hellcat night fighters had. This was to help the pilot spot E/A earlier for intercept.
Due to all the modifications there was talk of changing the name to "Scorpion" but it was thought that this might cause problems with modifying existing Mustang contracts so the Mustang name was retained.
While I admit introducing this bird into Aces High might bring fear to a lot of people, I only thing it fair that in the interest of history and providing for a better game envirionment, that we should have the P51VLR(20mm)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/P51VLR20mm.jpg)
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Guppy.... I get it, but I fear so so SO many others and others from years hence, will only use this to endlessly request it over and over and over.
What have you done?!?!?! :bolt:
P.S. You made the barrel housings too short as compared to the 3-plan sketch I saw not too long ago. They should be about 50% longer. Even though they are the shorter barrel Hispano Vs (technically, the US equivelant, can't recall the name), they were still mounted a little more forward because the wing was only so thick.
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o dear :uhoh now you've started something. Am I correct in assuming that these never seen combat?
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It's just a 51D with a little plastic surgery done :D Just wondering if those are droptanks or floats? :aok
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Sits back, grabs popcorn and waits for the inevitable to happen.
Wurzel
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:rofl :aok
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Careful not to get stung by that evil looking Scorpion. :D
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LOL
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a pony that can run faster than the others :airplane:. and some dweeb will fly it and complain about getting killed by spits :noid
semp
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a pony that can run faster than the others
Well, there's no mention of an improved power plant. seems to me that this pony would be somewhat slower and heavier, have a worse roll(longer wings and turn rate(heavier). The pwny is a pig already. This VLR might attract a few people I guess, but they would be less dangerous than if they were in a run of the mill D-pwny....IMHO
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Well, there's no mention of an improved power plant. seems to me that this pony would be somewhat slower and heavier, have a worse roll(longer wings and turn rate(heavier). The pwny is a pig already. This VLR might attract a few people I guess, but they would be less dangerous than if they were in a run of the mill D-pwny....IMHO
This wasn't meant as a turn fighter. Flying for a long time at high alt either as a bomber escort, or interceptor. With the extra weight it apparently went downhill really well and with the 4 20mms it could drop from the heavens, shoot a badguy in the face and zoom right back up there.
Naturally in it's ground attack role, loaded with 2 2000 pound bombs and 10 rockets it could really do some damage while shooting up airfields. Again, a long dive to gain speed, let loose the rockets and bombs and shoot anyone trying to take off in the face before zooming back up to altitude for the long cruise home.
The biggest problem discovered in testing was that the pilot's couldn't take the up to 16 hours in the cockpit. Legs and backsides went to sleep. It was recommended that pilots used the autopilot inverted so they could get the weight off their backsides and get the blood flowing again.
With the capture of Iwo Jima, this was no longer an issue as more reasonable flights of 6-7 hours were flown.
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This wasn't meant as a turn fighter.
So it would be even less nimble and slower than a D Stang... forgive me for being obtuse, I still don't understand how it would be more dangerous(air to air) than a vanilla D-Stang. The 6 .50 configuration is more than enough to drop any plane, buffs included in the one pass you mention.
That said, bring it into the game. Too many people misuse my beloved pwny as it is. [/haughty] :D
10 rockets and two 2k bombs .... that is a lot of punch.
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+1 I like the idea
but I cannot find proof of that thing
-2
end total: -1
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Come on people a P51 with 20mm,might as well put jets in here and we'll all use missiles.We need a P51 that first has a good ENY value that would be used on this game and one with more then 4 50 cals like the P51b.Something that's just like a p51b just more guns and ammo,but that's just me.
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+1 I like the idea
but I cannot find proof of that thing
-2
end total: -1
My great-uncle flew one as ground attack he bombed the germans you know the same ones that attacked peral harbor anyway he bombed them just like the fishy said he dove from really high and blew the germans up and flew back up and shot down the bombers really high and flew back home he said they flew for long times sometimes and it was really hard holding in the icky stuff so they shortened the flights
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My great-uncle flew one as ground attack he bombed the germans you know the same ones that attacked peral harbor anyway he bombed them just like the fishy said he dove from really high and blew the germans up and flew back up and shot down the bombers really high and flew back home he said they flew for long times sometimes and it was really hard holding in the icky stuff so they shortened the flights
you on dope? the japanese bombed pearl harbor, not the germans
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o dear :uhoh now you've started something. Am I correct in assuming that these never seen combat?
You are not correct. Lt. Paul Hinds even recorded a few kills in it making him an ace.
+1 I like the idea
but I cannot find proof of that thing
-2
end total: -1
Just because you cant find any info on it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Dan has many, many books on WWII aircraft and I'm betting that's where most of his information came from.
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you on dope? the japanese bombed pearl harbor, not the germans
Fish on!
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You are not correct. Lt. Paul Hinds even recorded a few kills in it making him an ace.
Just because you cant find any info on it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Dan has many, many books on WWII aircraft and I'm betting that's where most of his information came from.
ok well I searched the entire interned and got nothing
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+1 I like the idea
but I cannot find proof of that thing
-2
end total: -1
Actual real live books are wondrous things. Suggest getting a copy of Robert Greunhagen's` book on the Mustang. It covers all the variants and production models. William Hess did a nice book on the Mustang a while back too. Roger Freeman's "Mustang at War" is nice. There are some recent books on different aspects of WW2 Mustang action including one specifically on the VLR Mustangs.
You'd be surprised what you might learn from a good book :)
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ok well I searched the entire interned and got nothing
Try this
http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=P-51+VLR (http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=P-51+VLR)
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ok well I searched the entire interned and got nothing
Man I wish I could search the whole internet in a matter of hours. How about actually searching instead of just saying you did.
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Ha! Cant stand your reputation taking hits Guppy? Bias proven.
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Scorpions wrong color they need to be red.
:noid
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You are not correct. Lt. Paul Hinds even recorded a few kills in it making him an ace.
:rofl I have been had :rofl
Sneaky SAPP guys :furious
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Ha! Cant stand your reputation taking hits Guppy? Bias proven.
What are you talking about? I'm supporting your position. I've found proof that I was wrong and you've been right all along.
That proves my bias?
As for my reputation. If my being a parts distributing, 38G augering disaster as a cartoon pilot reputation is taking hits, I'm not sure that's a bad thing.
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Ha! Cant stand your reputation taking hits Guppy? Bias proven.
His reputation and respect far exceeds your own.
Heck, aside from robbing a bank in a speedo, I'm not sure what he could do to bring him down to your level.
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OMG...kingcobradude, keep trying and you may one day master the google:
***excerpt from the book - Very Long Range P-51 Mustang Units of the Pacific War (Aviation Elite Units) (Paperback)**
The 'Tokyo Club'
It was a simple task to become a member. All you had to do was strap yourself into a heavily loaded P-51 Mustang, take off from Iwo Jima (a postage-stamp sized volcanic island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean), fly 650 miles north over the sea - often through monsoon storms - in your single-engined aircraft to Japan, attack a heavily defended target in the vicinity of the enemy's capital city and then turn around and fly home while fretting over your shrinking fuel supply and perhaps battle damage as well. If your gas held out and you were not blown off-course on your return trip, you landed back at 'Iwo' after an eight-hour flight. Do it once and you earned membership in the club. Do it 15 times and you earned a trip home. But make one mistake or have one touch of bad luck, and you had a very good chance of ending up dead.
Three Mustang-equipped Very Long Range fighter groups of the USAAF's Seventh Fighter Command - the 15th, 21st and 506th FGs - based on Iwo Jima
But I haven't found any evidence that those planes had hispano cannons in them...whatever a P-51D-20 was...a lot of info and pics here:
http://www.506thfightergroup.org/506thsquadrons.asp#pilots (http://www.506thfightergroup.org/506thsquadrons.asp#pilots)
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You are not correct. Lt. Paul Hinds even recorded a few kills in it making him an ace.
Did the Japanese even have planes that could reach 35K?
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Did the Japanese even have planes that could reach 35K?
Supposedly the N1K2-J had a service ceiling of 35,000 ft.
The Ki-43 I think could get to 36,000 ft.
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OMG...kingcobradude, keep trying and you may one day master the google:
whatever a P-51D-20 was
Why we dont have them in varients is beyond me. didnt get the dorsal fin till -10 ...didnt get the k14 sight till -20 ...didnt have rockets till the -25/-30
http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51variants/P-51D.php (http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51variants/P-51D.php)
OH! and thats a very large hook spit it out.
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you on dope? the japanese bombed pearl harbor, not the germans
Are you sure about that?
I see a German plane in that picture, not a Japanese one.
(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm94/Ack-Ack/over-germans-bomber-pearl-harbor-an.jpg?t=1270489879)
ack-ack
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With all this talk of 20mm Mustangs and long range tanks, I thought I'd better make sure I was accurate. Turns out I was wrong. I found some references to an obscure variant of the P51 better known as the P51VLR(20mm)
Apparently prior to the capture of Iwo Jima there were concerns about escorting the B29s all the way to Japan. North American went to work on the basic Mustang design and came up with this beauty.
Specifications were:
P51VLR(20mm)
-Pressurized cockpit for high altitude flight
-Wings lengthened and strengthened to take 300 gallon DTs.
-Wings also sealed up to "wet wing' configuration so that all internal space outside of guns and ammo housed more fuel. Test flights of up to 16 hours were flown.
-4 20mm cannon. There had been concerns with the hitting power of 6 50cals against bombers up high so this was tested out. Improved Tempest style Hispanos were used.
-Ability to carry 2000 pound bombs in place of drop tanks.
-10 rockets on zero length rocket rails outboard of the 300 gallon DTs or 2000 pound bombs.
-Auto-pilot so that pilots could rest on the way to a target
-Radar pod on the end of the right wing. This was similar to what Marine Corsair and Hellcat night fighters had. This was to help the pilot spot E/A earlier for intercept.
Due to all the modifications there was talk of changing the name to "Scorpion" but it was thought that this might cause problems with modifying existing Mustang contracts so the Mustang name was retained.
While I admit introducing this bird into Aces High might bring fear to a lot of people, I only thing it fair that in the interest of history and providing for a better game envirionment, that we should have the P51VLR(20mm)
I see that it already has Chalenge's scorpion logo, though the color should be red. How was fuel consumption at 35,000ft?
ack-ack
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+1 I like the idea
but I cannot find proof of that thing
-2
end total: -1
LOL. Caught one.
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I love the recommendation for the pilots to fly inverted ...lol
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With all this talk of 20mm Mustangs and long range tanks, I thought I'd better make sure I was accurate. Turns out I was wrong. I found some references to an obscure variant of the P51 better known as the P51VLR(20mm)
Apparently prior to the capture of Iwo Jima there were concerns about escorting the B29s all the way to Japan. North American went to work on the basic Mustang design and came up with this beauty.
Specifications were:
P51VLR(20mm)
-Pressurized cockpit for high altitude flight
-Wings lengthened and strengthened to take 300 gallon DTs.
-Wings also sealed up to "wet wing' configuration so that all internal space outside of guns and ammo housed more fuel. Test flights of up to 16 hours were flown.
-4 20mm cannon. There had been concerns with the hitting power of 6 50cals against bombers up high so this was tested out. Improved Tempest style Hispanos were used.
-Ability to carry 2000 pound bombs in place of drop tanks.
-10 rockets on zero length rocket rails outboard of the 300 gallon DTs or 2000 pound bombs.
-Auto-pilot so that pilots could rest on the way to a target
-Radar pod on the end of the right wing. This was similar to what Marine Corsair and Hellcat night fighters had. This was to help the pilot spot E/A earlier for intercept.
Due to all the modifications there was talk of changing the name to "Scorpion" but it was thought that this might cause problems with modifying existing Mustang contracts so the Mustang name was retained.
While I admit introducing this bird into Aces High might bring fear to a lot of people, I only thing it fair that in the interest of history and providing for a better game envirionment, that we should have the P51VLR(20mm)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/P51VLR20mm.jpg)
You want a new pony? Shove the 51A in :aok
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Are you sure about that?
I see a German plane in that picture, not a Japanese one.
(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm94/Ack-Ack/over-germans-bomber-pearl-harbor-an.jpg?t=1270489879)
ack-ack
Should we tell him about the German helicopters that were there?
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You want a new pony? Shove the 51A in :aok
Nah, I don't want another Mustang. I just was trying to be considerate of the need more range, and 20mm cannon crowd. When I came across the info on the P51VLR(20mm) it only seemed right to post it.
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Nah, I don't want another Mustang. I just was trying to be considerate of the need more range, and 20mm cannon crowd. When I came across the info on the P51VLR(20mm) it only seemed right to post it.
ok. well then other planes please. shove the a6m6 in then or the a6m3. get an hour and a half in flight
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Are you sure about that?
I see a German plane in that picture, not a Japanese one.
(http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm94/Ack-Ack/over-germans-bomber-pearl-harbor-an.jpg?t=1270489879)
ack-ack
did you fail history class too? that is photoshopped
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did you fail history class too? that is photoshopped
LOL!
Ack ack you should enter the Bass Master's Classic!
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did you fail history class too? that is photoshopped
Wow.
ack-ack
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LOL!
Ack ack you should enter the Bass Master's Classic!
First time I caught a fish without even dropping a line.
ack-ack
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(http://api.ning.com/files/psoEOiPz006BRvZjijCN7GBTswKI1wl4ZYyY5zEZNlTy1ZjlnyEmNuNsYUS7Ln5Ywbj1z6nZA*DGLeuh*nLP8OsJS65w2*u5/JohnBelushi.jpg)
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First time I caught a fish without even dropping a line.
ack-ack
Or a net even. :)
Was like droppin a beer can in the water.
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LOL!
Ack ack you should enter the Bass Master's Classic!
Actually I think id be better suited for that
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Man Ack Ack, they're just jumping into the boat.
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AKAK should start the "AKAK Fanclub" where all his haterz can say everything they want. Lol.
Joking aside though, I dont really see the need to add another P51. At least not anytime soon. More Axis mid war aircraft are needed, I think.
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With all this talk of 20mm Mustangs and long range tanks, I thought I'd better make sure I was accurate. Turns out I was wrong. I found some references to an obscure variant of the P51 better known as the P51VLR(20mm)
Apparently prior to the capture of Iwo Jima there were concerns about escorting the B29s all the way to Japan. North American went to work on the basic Mustang design and came up with this beauty.
Specifications were:
P51VLR(20mm)
-Pressurized cockpit for high altitude flight
-Wings lengthened and strengthened to take 300 gallon DTs.
-Wings also sealed up to "wet wing' configuration so that all internal space outside of guns and ammo housed more fuel. Test flights of up to 16 hours were flown.
-4 20mm cannon. There had been concerns with the hitting power of 6 50cals against bombers up high so this was tested out. Improved Tempest style Hispanos were used.
-Ability to carry 2000 pound bombs in place of drop tanks.
-10 rockets on zero length rocket rails outboard of the 300 gallon DTs or 2000 pound bombs.
-Auto-pilot so that pilots could rest on the way to a target
-Radar pod on the end of the right wing. This was similar to what Marine Corsair and Hellcat night fighters had. This was to help the pilot spot E/A earlier for intercept.
Due to all the modifications there was talk of changing the name to "Scorpion" but it was thought that this might cause problems with modifying existing Mustang contracts so the Mustang name was retained.
While I admit introducing this bird into Aces High might bring fear to a lot of people, I only thing it fair that in the interest of history and providing for a better game envirionment, that we should have the P51VLR(20mm)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/P51VLR20mm.jpg)
So you want that mustang, but you don't want to perk Spit 16, how does that make sense?! :huh
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now if you want a pony that hgas massive ownage firepower, but at the cost of maneuverability, give the b25h a try.
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now if you want a pony that hgas massive ownage firepower, but at the cost of maneuverability, give the b25h a try.
Wow. I'm trying to figure out where the connection of Pony to B-25H even STARTS. :huh :huh :huh
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I see that it already has Chalenge's scorpion logo, though the color should be red. How was fuel consumption at 35,000ft?
ack-ack
Dang Ack ya beat me to this,Dan with all your research and background knowledge I would have thought for sure you'd have gotten the nose art right! It's a red scorpion,I've seen it in RL.... ooops I must stop before I break the NDA!
:salute
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now if you want a pony that hgas massive ownage firepower, but at the cost of maneuverability, give the b25h a try.
Huh? :headscratch:
ack-ack
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I think were gonna have to open a seafood restaurant AKAK. :D
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Huh? :headscratch:
ack-ack
WELL everyone is saying we need this because the forward firepower totally owns, but it wasnt as maneuverable as the usual pony. the b25h fits the bill perfectly
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I think were gonna have to open a seafood restaurant AKAK. :D
Indeed!
WELL everyone is saying we need this because the forward firepower totally owns, but it wasnt as maneuverable as the usual pony. the b25h fits the bill perfectly
Hardly. The 25H isn't maneuverable at all.
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well neither would a pony with all thatextra stuff on it
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WELL everyone is saying we need this because the forward firepower totally owns, but it wasnt as maneuverable as the usual pony. the b25h fits the bill perfectly
do you also think that a tiger fits the perfect requirements? :uhoh
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do you also think that a tiger fits the perfect requirements? :uhoh
the tiger is a tank, not a plane
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This is getting better......need more popcorn however.
Wurzel
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So do they always just jump into the boat like this? :headscratch:
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B-25 is a bomber, not a fighter.
Fixed :aok
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Fixed :aok
Zing!
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Has any one got any photo's of these 20mm pony's?
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WELL everyone is saying we need this because the forward firepower totally owns, but it wasnt as maneuverable as the usual pony. the b25h fits the bill perfectly
Did you read from Guppy's original post the intended role of the VLR Mustang? If not, ask your mom or dad to read it very slowly for you. Then come back and explain to us how the B-25H would be a perfect substitution for the VLR Mustang given its intended role?
ack-ack
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I think were gonna have to open a seafood restaurant AKAK. :D
I just hope the fish are legal size.
ack-ack
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I've just skipped 4 pages to say...
Four days too late....
:banana:
wrongway
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This is getting better......need more popcorn however.
Wurzel
I'll share my popcorn if you bring the drinks!
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I just hope the fish are legal size.
ack-ack
I guess the German Helicopter at Pearl Harbor wasn't as popular as the bombers.
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now if you want a pony that hgas massive ownage firepower, but at the cost of maneuverability, give the b25h a try.
Kingcobra please read bottom of sig.
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I just hope the fish are legal size.
ack-ack
I think the creel clerk will make you toss several of them back......................... .......
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This is getting better......need more popcorn however.
Wurzel
this is like a train wreck. i want to look away, but i can't.
:rofl :neener:
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Come on people a P51 with 20mm,might as well put jets in here and we'll all use missiles.We need a P51 that first has a good ENY value that would be used on this game and one with more then 4 50 cals like the P51b.Something that's just like a p51b just more guns and ammo,but that's just me.
Hmmm, I thought AH had jets? ENY 20 on the B-Pony is perfect, if you NEED six .50s to make the kill fly the D.
Aside from all the fishing going on in here, I myself would love to have the P-51A. There is no need for a 20mm 51.
(http://www.warbirddepot.com/dbimages/109/109-a-1280.jpg)
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this is like a train wreck. i want to look away, but i can't.
:rofl :neener:
If you really want to see a train wreck, watch the films of the duel I had with him and then watch the films he made of the fights.
ack-ack
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Sometimes you need to throw the young ones back. :noid
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Wow. I'm trying to figure out where the connection of Pony to B-25H even STARTS. :huh :huh :huh
BIG GUNS!!!!!! :D
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Kingcobra please read bottom of sig.
Stodd you're an evil man :aok :rofl i remember that post
Hmmm, I thought AH had jets? ENY 20 on the B-Pony is perfect, if you NEED six .50s to make the kill fly the D.
Aside from all the fishing going on in here, I myself would love to have the P-51A. There is no need for a 20mm 51.
(http://www.warbirddepot.com/dbimages/109/109-a-1280.jpg)
Or if you want the merlin 66 over the 61... i fly the P51D with only 4 .50s now. didnt need the 6. and i agree with you on the A model. Posted that i think twice in this thread already :lol
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now if you want a pony that hgas massive ownage firepower, but at the cost of maneuverability, give the b25h a try.
:huh :headscratch: Your comparison makes no sense. A better comparison would be: P51D vs 190A8 (with full guns loadout).
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I got a wiki thingy bookmarked around here somewhere that had a picture of one of
these planes being used as a test mule. It shows them trying to mate two frames -
one had the port wing cut in half and being bolted up to the starboard half of another.
P-51SFVLR Mustang or something along those lines.... ???
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I agree with earlier posts that without increased power, a heavier pony would be like flying a p40 with 20mm's. Personally, I would love cannons on a pony but I do alright with the 50cals. As long as you are talking about adding a version that saw little if any combat, I would rather see the p51h included. It was 600 lbs. lighter, much larger rudder, even better visibility and had the uprated Merlin V-1650-9 w/ WEP rating of 2,218hp (although non-WEP was slightly lower). This thing would have been a beast and I would be willing to "settle" for 6-50 cals. w/ 1,880 rounds!
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According to this site the specs of the P-51H-5-NA: Maximum speed was 444 mph at 5000 feet:
http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_fighters/p51_13.html
At that speed this plane would have a huge advantage in the HTC skies.
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According to this site the specs of the P-51H-5-NA: Maximum speed was 444 mph at 5000 feet:
http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_fighters/p51_13.html
At that speed this plane would have a huge advantage in the HTC skies.
We're talking about a really long range Mustang that was built for high alt with the pressurized cockpit and had cannons along with a greatly increased ordinance carrying ability.
The P51H was a lightweight that didn't even get used in Korea as it was not the fighter bomber the regular P51D was. Imagine cruising along for hours at 35K in your P51VLR(20mm). The radar pod on your right wing starts to go off indicating a flight of enemy aircraft ahead. You sneak up behind em and blast them to bits with your 20mm cannons. You can't do that in a P51H. You'd have had to return to base for lack of fuel and oxygen.
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I got a wiki thingy bookmarked around here somewhere that had a picture of one of
these planes being used as a test mule. It shows them trying to mate two frames -
one had the port wing cut in half and being bolted up to the starboard half of another.
P-51SFVLR Mustang or something along those lines.... ???
which eventally evolved into the twin mustang I believe
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Fixed :aok
well technicly yes it is a bomber, but it can make an awesome buff blaster. '
and wouldnt the role of this new plane be filled already in game by the p38? the b24 is just a more extreme example of reduced maneuverability in exchange for massive ownage guns
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:huh :headscratch: :uhoh :bolt:
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Imagine cruising along for hours at 35K in your P51VLR(20mm).
What are fuel-saving settings at that altitude? I'd assume very good.
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well technicly yes it is a bomber, but it can make an awesome buff blaster. '
and wouldnt the role of this new plane be filled already in game by the p38? the b24 is just a more extreme example of reduced maneuverability in exchange for massive ownage guns
*Epic facepalm*
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which eventally evolved into the twin mustang I believe
Believe me, I am one that loves nothing more than bashing baby seal cubs but for the love of Jeebus, spit out the hook before Westy sets it. Guppy and I have already had to throw you back in because you're under the legal size.
ack-ack
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Believe me, I am one that loves nothing more than bashing baby seal cubs but for the love of Jeebus, spit out the hook before Westy sets it. Guppy and I have already had to throw you back in because you're under the legal size.
ack-ack
LOL
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Wasn't this also part of the Project Rainbow testing, to give it a low observability coating?
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well technicly yes it is a bomber, but it can make an awesome buff blaster. '
and wouldnt the role of this new plane be filled already in game by the p38? the b24 is just a more extreme example of reduced maneuverability in exchange for massive ownage guns
Jeebus...why do you keep comparing the firepower of bombers against that of fighters? There is no correlation between the two in terms of firepower, when you're comparing firepower of a fighter you need to compare it to another fighter. For example, the firepower of a Bf 110C-4 is far more lethal than the firepower of a A6M5, or you can say the firepower of a P-38 is more lethal than the firepower of the P-51B, while only more lethal than the P-51D until the 20mm cannon rounds run out. Those are valid comparisons of firepower.
And by the way...the B-24 doesn't have "massive ownage guns".
ack-ack
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Jeebus...why do you keep comparing the firepower of bombers against that of fighters? There is no correlation between the two in terms of firepower, when you're comparing firepower of a fighter you need to compare it to another fighter. For example, the firepower of a Bf 110C-4 is far more lethal than the firepower of a A6M5, or you can say the firepower of a P-38 is more lethal than the firepower of the P-51B, while only more lethal than the P-51D until the 20mm cannon rounds run out. Those are valid comparisons of firepower.
And by the way...the B-24 doesn't have "massive ownage guns".
ack-ack
75 mm cannon vs lancaster. who wins?
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Any bomber is extremely vulnerable IMO...except for the 234...and even then for the average joe the only defense it has is it's speed.
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Wasn't this also part of the Project Rainbow testing, to give it a low observability coating?
Are we back on topic with the VLR pony's? Not sure any more with this thread.
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Any bomber is extremely vulnerable IMO...except for the 234...and even then for the average joe the only defense it has is it's speed.
yes the tail guns are not the best compwred to the package of fighters. but I really dont want to be looking down the barrels of a b 25 strafer's nose guns
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75 mm cannon vs lancaster. who wins?
Jeebus, are you serious? Do you even have to ask what would happen to a plane that gets hit from a 75mm cannon round, let alone who would win in such a contest?
ack-ack
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yes the tail guns are not the best compwred to the package of fighters. but I really dont want to be looking down the barrels of a b 25 strafer's nose guns
Seriously...what is your fetish with bombers vs fighters? They don't compare, or else they wouldn't be in two different categories. The 234 is probably the only 'exception' to the bomber/fighter category.
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yes the tail guns are not the best compwred to the package of fighters. but I really dont want to be looking down the barrels of a b 25 strafer's nose guns
Now for the first time or maybe since I don't know when?? I can agree with you. Having said that what has the B25H has got to do with this thread? :headscratch: PS: EXCEPT FOR YOUR SPELLING.
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you guys want planes that you have no need for since you can play those roles with other planes
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I don't want any planes. I'm content with whacking guys in my 234, I'm trying to figure out your issue with bombers vs fighters and trying to compare them as one role.
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I don't want any planes. I'm content with whacking guys in my 234, I'm trying to figure out your issue with bombers vs fighters and trying to compare them as one role.
not bombers vs fighters. b25 strafer vs bomber destroyer
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yes the tail guns are not the best compwred to the package of fighters.
not bombers vs fighters. b25 strafer vs bomber destroyer
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dude here
http://tinyurl.com/y9nk47n
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dude here
http://tinyurl.com/y9nk47n
Again this has what to do with VLR Mustangs?
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you guys want planes that you have no need for since you can play those roles with other planes
How could a B-25H or any other bomber make a suitable substitute for a P-51 as a long range escort?
ack-ack
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not bombers vs fighters. b25 strafer vs bomber destroyer
Again, you can't compare them. Seriously, why do you insist on comparing apples and oranges?
ack-ack
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dude here
http://tinyurl.com/y9nk47n
You still don't see the point. You are comparing my 234 JET BOMBER with NO FRONT GUNS (The rear guns would still own ya though) compared to any other fighter...
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This is the thread that keeps on giving.
A++ would read again
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This is the thread that keeps on giving.
Started off interestingly enough now it is just keeps on giving....................hea daches.
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Again, you can't compare them. Seriously, why do you insist on comparing apples and oranges?
ack-ack
One of us mentioned on the 1st or 2nd page that P-51 VLR is a lot heavier and less maneuverable than the D model. So the way I see it is that he just does not understand to what extreme.
He basically thinks that the P-51 VLR would perform and handle the same exact way as the B-25.
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One of us mentioned on the 1st or 2nd page that P-51 VLR is a lot heavier and less maneuverable than the D model. So the way I see it is that he just does not understand to what extreme.
He basically thinks that the P-51 VLR would perform and handle the same exact way as the B-25.
I guess from a kids perspective this would make sense.
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Why do I think it's time to start passing out the clue rakes?
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Wasn't this also part of the Project Rainbow testing, to give it a low observability coating?
Yep. They were using some of the PR blue colors that the RAF tested for high alt recce birds. That's why the logo was blue instead of red.
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Why do I think it's time to start passing out the clue rakes?
Because we have been trying to figure out his point for the past 8 pages...? :headscratch:
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Again, you can't compare them. Seriously, why do you insist on comparing apples and oranges?
ack-ack
Don't look now, Akster, but ya got a hook in your mouth, there. ;)
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"Why do I think it's time to start passing out the clue rakes?"
Wait? All the leaves aint off his tree yet.
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This thread makes my brain hurt and my stomach churn.
No... just my brain hurt... the stomach churn was from too much PBR. :cheers:
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Don't look now, Akster, but ya got a hook in your mouth, there. ;)
Believe me, the kid isn't trolling, he's really that stupid.
ack-ack
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Believe me, the kid isn't trolling, he's really that stupid.
ack-ack
But he has books that tell him everything he needs to know...they got pictures.
Not that he actually does the full research on anything.... :rolleyes:
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But he has books that tell him everything he needs to know...they got pictures.
Not that he actually does the full research on anything.... :rolleyes:
like someone else you know about a certain gun eh? :D
How could a B-25H or any other bomber make a suitable substitute for a P-51 as a long range escort?
ack-ack
BIG GUNS!!!!! :x :x :x
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Wow. I'm trying to figure out where the connection of Pony to B-25H even STARTS. :huh :huh :huh
That's easy Sax, they were both made by North American :D
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Oh Guppy, Guppy, Guppy... What have you done?
Years from now, when all the newbies are forced to learn how to search before posting, they will cite this thread and there will be an inundation of requests for the P-51(20mm)VLR!
WHY?!?!?
WHY couldn't you have kept it a secret?
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Guppy you are a bad man. :D
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Guppy you are a bad man. :D
Isn't it!
(http://img.youtube.com/vi/fQ9yj_BXRp0/0.jpg)
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Well, there's no mention of an improved power plant. seems to me that this pony would be somewhat slower and heavier, have a worse roll(longer wings and turn rate(heavier). The pwny is a pig already. This VLR might attract a few people I guess, but they would be less dangerous than if they were in a run of the mill D-pwny....IMHO
mustangs no pig try using flaps and the spits will fall
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mustangs no pig try using flaps and the spits will fall
Are you seriously attempted to tell us that with the use of flaps, the Mustang will out maneuver a Spitfire or just a bad troll?
ack-ack
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:rofl dude.....yeah Steve, use the flaps you nooblet :lol
Wing47 has killed 4 spits in 2 months in a D pony. I bet he used those flaps. :rofl
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Are you seriously attempted to tell us that with the use of flaps, the Mustang will out maneuver a Spitfire or just a bad troll?
ack-ack
I've killed many spits by using the P51 flaps. Of coarse most of them was AFK...but that's a whole nother thread :rock
I myself like to use the rudder to deflect spitfire rounds.
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mustangs no pig try using flaps and the spits will fall
I fly spitfires, and mustangs are some of the easiest planes to kill in a turn fight.
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THIS is the mustang we really need. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oloDe93LRK0
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why oh why must this thread be bumped by a noob? :headscratch:
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why oh why must this thread be bumped by a noob? :headscratch:
i ain't no noob snappy
:neener:
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i ain't no noob snappy
:neener:
never said you! :D
mustangs no pig try using flaps and the spits will fall
HIM^^^^^^^HIM (fo course this being only a mini bump but bump none the less... now close your eyes cuz this pic is very disturbing! :aok
(http://banilla.com/xanga/bellybump.gif)
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never said you! :DHIM^^^^^^^HIM (fo course this being only a mini bump but bump none the less... now close your eyes cuz this pic is very disturbing! :aok
(http://banilla.com/xanga/bellybump.gif)
GGRR!
i should've heeded that warning!!
my eyes feel like they're meeellllltttttiiiiinnnngggggg gg :noid :rofl
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dint the Mustang Mk1A have 4 20s??
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now if you want a pony that hgas massive ownage firepower, but at the cost of maneuverability, give the b25h a try.
How come you chose not to take the '25' into your "epic" battle with akak? :lol
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75 mm cannon vs lancaster. who wins?
Whoever has the better aim.
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you guys want planes that you have no need for since you can play those roles with other planes
.....and you're attempting to sound like an "expert". You're still a Beginner.
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dint the Mustang Mk1A have 4 20s??
First P51 did (allison powered, nowhere near the performance of the Merlin 'stangs you see in game)
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Masherbrum must be looking for someone to argue with...had to bump a dead subject. :lol
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I desire. Make it so oh HiTechy one... make it so :D
Im sensing picking-palusa :noid
:cheers:FlakBait
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:furious no Ki-102
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Are you seriously attempted to tell us that with the use of flaps, the Mustang will out maneuver a Spitfire or just a bad troll?
ack-ack
.
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Masherbrum must be looking for someone to argue with...had to bump a dead subject. :lol
Sorry Francis, I bumped nothing. There were posts created today, prior to mine. So go tell Thorsim "You Bleeeeeeeeew it!" to quote De Niro. (no smilie needed)
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No way a mustang will out maneuver a spit. It can outurn it at high speed but at low speed full flaps or not pony will die. Only times I have been killed by ponies is when I make a mistake and stall my plane.
Semp
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That's why this P-51 is desperately needed. We need to be able to out turn Spits in 51s.
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No way a mustang will out maneuver a spit. It can outurn it at high speed but at low speed full flaps or not pony will die. Only times I have been killed by ponies is when I make a mistake and stall my plane.
Semp
I doubt a P-51 will out turn a Spitfire at any speed as the Spitfire is always G limited until you get slower. E.g., both the Spit and P-51 will easily pull into blackouts at higher speed, negating any theoretical advantage of either airframe at speed.
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That's why this P-51 is desperately needed. We need to be able to out turn Spits in 51s.
:lol Yep. :D
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Sorry Francis, I bumped nothing. There were posts created today, prior to mine. So go tell Thorsim "You Bleeeeeeeeew it!" to quote De Niro. (no smilie needed)
:lol One post by Danny76 dweeb...he bumped a lot of dead horses...you could have left it alone, especially considering your post was a rebuttal to a post from April by kingcobradude who was smart enough to let this topic die...good fail on your part.
Now who Bleeeew it? :rofl :huh
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:lol One post by Danny76 dweeb...he bumped a lot of dead horses...you could have left it alone, especially considering your post was a rebuttal to a post from April by kingcobradude who was smart enough to let this topic die...good fail on your part.
Now who Bleeeew it? :rofl :huh
Me apparently, you screw up royally on another post and attack me on this one?
Mine was purely a tongue in cheek post for cobradudeking.
In closing
Wind your neck in. :huh
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No way a mustang will out maneuver a spit. It can outurn it at high speed but at low speed full flaps or not pony will die. Only times I have been killed by ponies is when I make a mistake and stall my plane.
Semp
:lol Then you haven't seen some of the best pilots who fly a 51 that will indeed out manuver a spit, there's only about 5 that can do it perfectly without stalling. The spit pilots that face them on the other hand are dealing with this :joystick:
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Then you haven't seen some of the best pilots who fly a 51 that will indeed out manuver a spit, there's only about 5 that can do it perfectly without stalling. The spit pilots that face them on the other hand are dealing with this :joystick:
In a fight between pilots of equal skill, the one flying the Spitfire will win 10 out of 10 times in an angles fight against a Mustang, unless the Spitfire driver makes a fatal mistake.
ack-ack
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But then again a pilot of equal skill will not make the mistake of engaging in an angles fight with a Spitfire. ;)
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But then again a pilot of equal skill will not make the mistake of engaging in an angles fight with a Spitfire. ;)
Hmmm mk XIV gives 51s fits either way.
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Hmmm mk XIV gives 51s fits either way.
:uhoh yeah...i forgot about that one :eek:
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You gents forget that the P51VLR(20mm) has extended wings. (Think Ta152). Once the fuel load gets down to a managable level, with the low wing loading, the P51VLR(20mm) will eat Spits for lunch in a turn fight. :aok
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ahh the dreaded double post. :)
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Still would like to see some photo's of these planes.
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Still would like to see some photo's of these planes.
I guess I need to place an order for 6 Garfish & 3 flatheads & a banjo shark.
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you might as well. The only time I have seen an a36 with 4 20mm was on the begining of a doco called great planes. This episode was about the p51.
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(http://www.fishing-forum.info/images/libary/garfish.jpg)
(http://www.michaelmcfadyenscuba.info/images/shelly-flathead.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2352/2181431903_fa0db84343.jpg)
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Lol throw in a Barramundi too. :aok
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Lose the radar pod and i will take 2 of them please. :devil
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Its really simple on the Mustang vs spit debate. If the Mustang Pilot knows how to fly the Mustang better than the spit Pilot knows how to fly the Spit, then the Mustang pilot will win. I've unleashed utter pwnage on some Spitfire's in mt Mustang low and slow, everything has died. Its not a matter of who can turn better, or roll better, its just a debate about who know WHEN to turn and roll :salute
:cheers: FlakBait
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a pony that can run faster than the others :airplane:. and some dweeb will fly it and complain about getting killed by spits :noid
semp
:x
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:rolleyes: Some people tend to forget that the 51s speed can be used for running down planes as well. Especially the ones that fly the spits to make up for their lack of ACM. ;)
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Sorry to bump this, but I came across a well built model on Hyperscale today of a postwar version of the P51VLR(20mm) that I thought you gents would like to see.
Too bad it's postwar. No torque with the twin props and clearly larger drop tanks to go with those 4 20mms
(http://www.chukw.com/Hobby/OC10/OC10_025.jpg)
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awesome
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Sorry to bump this, but I came across a well built model on Hyperscale today of a postwar version of the P51VLR(20mm) that I thought you gents would like to see.
Too bad it's postwar. No torque with the twin props and clearly larger drop tanks to go with those 4 20mms
(http://www.chukw.com/Hobby/OC10/OC10_025.jpg)
Rabbit season!
Duck Season!!
wrongway
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Sorry to bump this, but I came across a well built model on Hyperscale today of a postwar version of the P51VLR(20mm) that I thought you gents would like to see.
Too bad it's postwar. No torque with the twin props and clearly larger drop tanks to go with those 4 20mms
(http://www.chukw.com/Hobby/OC10/OC10_025.jpg)
Also note the streamline canopy. I've read that it's the predecessor to modern day air racer canopies.
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Sorry to bump this, but I came across a well built model on Hyperscale today of a postwar version of the P51VLR(20mm) that I thought you gents would like to see.
Too bad it's postwar. No torque with the twin props and clearly larger drop tanks to go with those 4 20mms
(http://www.chukw.com/Hobby/OC10/OC10_025.jpg)
Is it this time. :neener:
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I heard that with those extended wingtips, that the Mustang VLR (20mm) could out-turn Spitfires too. Good suggestion Guppy. Would be great if we could get the B-29 to go with it for scenarios. :aok
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We still need the P-51C since it was obviously the best P51 models ever made.
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.
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(http://bellsouthpwp.net/t/h/the_mac/My_Escort/homer_surpirsed.gif)
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No guys we needs the p51z cuz of tha alfabeet z is the last lettr and that makes it the bestest.
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No guys we needs the p51z cuz of tha alfabeet z is the last lettr and that makes it the bestest.
ya was that te on with te 00ber tatorz? nd heet-sekin mislzz 2!!!
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ya was that te on with te 00ber tatorz? nd heet-sekin mislzz 2!!!
Yah i thnk it had teh sidwindrs for killin da jermenz at perl harbirs
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Yah i thnk it had teh sidwindrs for killin da jermenz at perl harbirs
stoopid, evry1 nowes te jermenz bomd perl harbirs n 1938, nd the 51z dnt c servc til 1940
:banana:
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A Pony with 20mm cannon? Even if perked...NIEN! ;)
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...NEIN!
<--Interlinguistic Grammar Nazi
This thread gets 2 bananas and one laughing emoticon!
:banana: :lol :banana:
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IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :pray :pray :pray
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(http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0806/grammar-nazis-demotivational-poster-1213469207.gif)
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(http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0806/grammar-nazis-demotivational-poster-1213469207.gif)
Contractions displease me. This demotivational poster was obviously made by a layman masquerading as a true Grammar Kommandeur.
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its gonna be low perk highest 14 perks but add it add it add it :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :x
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:lol
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its gonna be low perk highest 14 perks but add it add it add it :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :pray :x
Lol. This is the kind of crowd the P-51's attract. I'm not sure why so many people like it, or why the ENY is so high. If I can get co-e with a P-51 in my K4, he's dead.
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800nate is not very nice. He cusses like a sailor and has a lesser grasp on the English language than a dead groundhog.
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800nate is not very nice. He cusses like a sailor and has a lesser grasp on the English language than a dead groundhog.
Which is still more than can be said for a number of other forum-goers.
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Don't be bringin' dead groundhogs into this...or it could get ugly...
(http://www.kruufm.com/files/23/groundhog.jpg)
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Oh....and while I'm here... Perk the 51LVM!!! :neener:
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this thread is full of WIN :banana:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDnXkFVEQ0Y&feature=player_embedded
:bolt:
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Lol. This is the kind of crowd the P-51's attract. I'm not sure why so many people like it, or why the ENY is so high. If I can get co-e with a P-51 in my K4, he's dead.
Depends on who is driving the 51. Some guys in here would eat my lunch if I had an F-15 :D
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His reputation and respect far exceeds your own. QFT
Heck, aside from robbing a bank in a speedo, I'm not sure what he could do to bring him down to your level.
:aok :rofl :rofl
<S> Oz
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Hahaha, If I had a Stinger, that P-51 would go away!
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oh my gosh, you guys are terrible!
:lol
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Damn Dan, this one is still going on. WTG!
ack-ack
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Damn Dan, this one is still going on. WTG!
ack-ack
Well, I had help. That model builder on Hyperscale did such a nice job on the postwar P51VLR(20mm) I couldn't help but share the picture. Glad we won't ever get that one in here since it's not a WW2 bird.
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Dan....can you find another hobby???? ;)
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+1 (especially from me) :aok :x
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amen
+1 (especially from me) :aok :x
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I'm gonna have to stock up on Craggenmore Scotch. Gonna need Hitech to get us a bigger boat...maybe one of those clipper bow BBs I like so much :)
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I saw a video of a boat going down some canal and hundreds of carp were jumping out of the water and so many landed in the boat that it almost sank. This thread reminds me of that video.
ack-ack
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I saw a video of a boat going down some canal and hundreds of carp were jumping out of the water and so many landed in the boat that it almost sank. This thread reminds me of that video.
ack-ack
like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_fUmx-HI0Q
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like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_fUmx-HI0Q
Top Gun theme had me crackin up! :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Still talking of this absurd idea?
If they give you Pony dweebs cannons, they better give us Luftwhiners a Do 335.
perdweeb
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Still talking of this absurd idea?
If they give you Pony dweebs cannons, they better give us Luftwhiners a Do 335.
perdweeb
id settle for taters that werent duds
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Don't want to see another Allied request until I get my axis planes!!!!
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Maybe that German carrier that never got finished would be a big enough boat. I think it was called Graf Zeppelin
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No concept planes, just real ones. However the Do 335 never saw "combat" although it ran from a Tempest during a training exercise.
perdweeb
He 111 shhhhh
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Maybe that German carrier that never got finished would be a big enough boat. I think it was called Graf Zeppelin
Skuzzy should close this thread. If it stays open I fear that the forums will be over fished and we won't have anything to troll for in the future.
ack-ack
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Considering I got one after the Graf Zeppelin comment, I'm thinking Nimitz Class CV now