Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: BaldEagl on April 12, 2010, 11:31:47 PM
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I was just at Warbird Depot and in the February 2010 desktop wallpapers there's a picture that they say is a Spit XVI. It has a bubble-top canopy. I didn't think Spits had them until much later.
(http://www.warbirddepot.com/images/wallpapers/2_february10/fighter3_1024fx.jpg)
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True, not an intuitive location to find it, but Guppy's been teaching the plebes about Spits over in the wishlist Mustang Mk I thread.
Just to kill the Spit 16 is completely different then the IX bit.
Which one is the IX and which one is the XVI? Note the serial numbers. They came off the production line right next to each other literally. The color shot is a surviving Spit. It's missing the cannon shroud so no one should get bent out of shape by the look of the cannon. One is a 9 and one is a 16. Purely engines being the difference.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/TE214.jpg)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/TE215.jpg)
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You can find Mk IXe, Mk XVI and Mk XIVe Spits with the bubble top, but the substantial majority of wartime versions of each of those marks had the old fashioned high back like we have in AH.
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I was just at Warbird Depot and in the February 2010 desktop wallpapers there's a picture that they say is a Spit XVI. It has a bubble-top canopy. I didn't think Spits had them until much later.
(http://www.warbirddepot.com/images/wallpapers/2_february10/fighter3_1024fx.jpg)
The first bubble top Spits both XIV and XVI didn't get into the game until well into the Spring of 1945. I can show you photos of Spit XIVs and XVIs from roughly April-May 45. Not at that computer at the moment however. In terms of AH I'm of the belief that they did it right by modeling the more numerous high back XVI as it can also be skinned as the LFIXe as well and covers far more possibilities then the few lowback birds that got into action so late
S/L Terry Spencer, CO of 350 Belgian Squadron in May 45 in his low back XIV
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/TSpence.jpg)
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Bring teh malcom hood to teh spitfire!!!
:D
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The first bubble top Spits both XIV and XVI didn't get into the game until well into the Spring of 1945.
OK. Thanks. I didn't think they were around during WWII and, in fact, thought they were only on later Marks.
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Canadian Aviation Museum
* Registration #: TE 214 (RAF)
* Manufacturer: Supermarine Division, Vickers Armstrong Ltd., Great Britain
* Manufacture Date: 1945
* Construction #: CBAF IX 4424
* Aquisition Date: 1966
* Provenance: Transfer from RCAF
Built in 1945, the Museum’s Mk. XVI never saw action. It was loaned to the RCAF by the British Air Ministry in 1960 and officially acquired in 1963. The Museum received the aircraft in 1966.
(http://www.aviation.technomuses.ca/assets/images/aircraft/spitfirexvi-1.gif)
Vintage Wings of canada
Notable Facts: Personal aircraft of Sir James Robb, RAF Air Chief Marshall, CinC of Air Forces in Western Europe after Second World War
Manufactured: August 1945, Supermarine works of Vickers-Armstrong Ltd., England
Serial Number: SL721
Current Registration: C-GVZB
Present Markings: RCAF camouflage and squadron markings of 421 Squadron.
more http://www.vintagewings.ca/rsrc/vwc/pdf/spitfire.pdf
(http://www.vintagewings.ca/rsrc/vwc/img/popups/spitfire2.jpg)
I see this a/c flying quite often.
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S/L Terry Spencer, CO of 350 Belgian Squadron in May 45
Thank You for the picture, Guppy
has been added to our genealogy
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Bring teh malcom hood to teh spitfire!!!
:D
Erm, the Malcolm Hood concept came from Spitfires, unless I am very much mistaken. Spits already have the bulged canopy that allows the pilot better rearward vision on a high backed aircraft.
The P-51D does not have a Malcolm Hood, fyi.
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Erm, the Malcolm Hood concept came from Spitfires, unless I am very much mistaken. Spits already have the bulged canopy that allows the pilot better rearward vision on a high backed aircraft.
The P-51D does not have a Malcolm Hood, fyi.
Right, but the 51B does - just not by original design. The British retrofittted B models with the bulging Malcolm hood. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-51_Mustang
It differs from the bubble. You're also correct that it's a British invention, though I don't know it originated with Spits - but find it likely since high-backed Spits feature 'em.
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Thank You for the picture, Guppy
has been added to our genealogy
That comment deserves some explanation? :)
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That comment deserves some explanation? :)
will get you all the details, soon as Mom gets done with her digging.... apparently he is a relative on my Dad's side of the family...
Mom is going to go through all her ancestry stuff and give me more info after she has finished her updating & research....
she did verify though he is in the Family Tree....
if you had not posted his name at the top of that pic, I would have never bothered to check in to it......
edit: I should have said "updated" instead of added that was a typo
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will get you all the details, soon as Mom gets done with her digging.... apparently he is a relative on my Dad's side of the family...
Mom is going to go through all her ancestry stuff and give me more info after she has finished her updating & research....
she did verify though he is in the Family Tree....
if you had not posted his name at the top of that pic, I would have never bothered to check in to it......
edit: I should have said "updated" instead of added that was a typo
Wow! I spent some time with Terry at his home in 1985 during the 41 Squadron reunion. He recently passed away about a year ago now. There are more photos, and lots of Terry Spencer stories if he's in fact a relative. His postwar life was a real adventure too as a combat photographer among other things. He and his wife of 60+ years died within hours of each other. Wonderful people.
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Erm, the Malcolm Hood concept came from Spitfires, unless I am very much mistaken. Spits already have the bulged canopy that allows the pilot better rearward vision on a high backed aircraft.
The P-51D does not have a Malcolm Hood, fyi.
I do not think spits in game are modeled with the malcom hood.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/wiki/images/thumb/3/35/S16_800x.jpg/630px-S16_800x.jpg)
And I know the d is bubble the b is malcomed.
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The Malcom is the blown hood where is bulges out on top and the sides. They didn't call it a Malcom hood on the Spits. Initially it was bulged on top for the spit and the sides were flat. Most easily recognizable by the knockout panel on the left side. Later it bulged out on the sides as well.
Initially the Spitfire I had a flat canopy. Due to too many pilots hitting their heads, the canopy was bulged on top, although still 'slab-sided' with a knockout panel. You can see that version in this Spitfire V photo from 41 Squadron. Also note it has the early external armor that was added to the initially unarmored windscreen. That happened around the time of Dunkirk in May 1940
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/stCanSpit.jpg)
You can see what the malcom hood idea evolved into with the later Spitfire canopy where it was bulged all the way around. This is a Spit IX but I believe this started during the Spitfire V production run as the internal armor glass windscreen also appeared in the Spit V series as can also be seen here on the IX.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Lala5.jpg)
I've seen a number of places where former P51 pilots claim their Malcom hood was taken from a Spitfire, although based on the shape and size of the P51 Malcom hood and the Spitfire canopy this isn't remotely possible. The Malcom was also fitted to some razorback P47s
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I cant argue with you dan. It's just that the views out of the 51b look so much different than in the spits. It's like the malcom hood is more noticeable. Know what I mean?
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nice pics, I got distracted as to what you guys were talking about but if it involves my Spitfire having awesome rear views so I can check 6 with even more ease I +1 the thread :D
Oh and a Spit mk XII
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Wow! I spent some time with Terry at his home in 1985 during the 41 Squadron reunion. Wonderful people.
that must have been a very special moment for you, I sent you a PM
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Here's a couple more of Terry Spencer. First one was taken right before he took off on a flight where he was shot down by flak. He was captured, then escaped with another former Spit XII driver. They stole a motorcycle and rode across the Remagen Bridge to the Allied lines. And it wasn't any movie when they did it :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Spencer2.jpg)
This one has Spencer in the middle sitting in the car. I'd gotten this photo from a Warrant Officer pilot who flew XIIs with 41 at Lympne before going on to Typhoons for the run across the continent. When I showed Terry his response was "That's the Blue Peril!"
Not knowing what the heck he was talking about I asked him to explain. The car he is sitting in was his during the war and it was blue. Apparently you could get a lot of Spitfire pilots in it for the run to the pub when needed. Running on high octane avgas didn't always work well at times, hence the Peril part of the equation. Although I think an overload of drunken Spit pilots might also play a part in that name :)
I had a chance to correspond or meet 5 of the 6 guys in that photo taken at Lympe during August of 44 while they were still in Spit XIIs. Left to right, New Zealander Brian Weeds, Danny Weeds, who shot down a 262 in a Spit XIV, Terry Spencer, who claimed the last kill in a Spit XII when he downed JG 54 ace Bully Lang in his 190 in September 44, Pete Hale, Canadian Bill Stowe whose Spit XIV RM797 still exists and is being restored in Australia, and a Belgian pilot whose name escapes me at the moment.
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/BluePeril.jpg)
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I cant argue with you dan. It's just that the views out of the 51b look so much different than in the spits. It's like the malcom hood is more noticeable. Know what I mean?
It does seem that by your screenshot that the bulge out to each side on the AH Spit isn't as pronounced as it should be. I have read in a couple places, most notably Richard Turner's book on his time flying 51s with the 354th, that some Mustang pilots actually thought the visibilty was better with the Malcom hooded B/C then with the D as the bulge to each side allowed them to look back and down below their tails.
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The malcom hood was introduced very early in the spits . very few front line Spit I's had the straight canopies. the majority had the malcom hoods.
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The malcom hood was introduced very early in the spits . very few front line Spit I's had the straight canopies. the majority had the malcom hoods.
Read Dan's post earlier in this thread. It explains when it was introduced. The flat on the sides, bulged on top canopy that most Spitfire Mk Is had is not a Malcolm Hood.
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It does seem that by your screenshot that the bulge out to each side on the AH Spit isn't as pronounced as it should be. I have read in a couple places, most notably Richard Turner's book on his time flying 51s with the 354th, that some Mustang pilots actually thought the visibilty was better with the Malcom hooded B/C then with the D as the bulge to each side allowed them to look back and down below their tails.
I find this to be true in-game as well.
:salute
wrongway
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look up AR213 Mk IA spit I have a picture of it's got the bulged canopy (top and sides) I can scan the picture if you'd like. spit P7350 MKII , all restored to original flying condition apart from the 4 blade prop instead of 2 blade fixed. (AR213 is being repainted as a "Bounce" aircraft at the moment as it was in 1941).
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look up AR213 Mk IA spit I have a picture of it's got the bulged canopy (top and sides) I can scan the picture if you'd like. spit P7350 MKII , all restored to original flying condition apart from the 4 blade prop instead of 2 blade fixed. (AR213 is being repainted as a "Bounce" aircraft at the moment as it was in 1941).
Are those restored Spits, or photos from 1940? The photos need context. A Mk I in late 1941 might very well have received a Malcolm Hood.
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Most restored Spits have the bulged 'malcom' style canopy. AR213 a late production Spit I had this canopy post war. When she was finally restored back to stock Mark I recently they replaced the later hood with the correct style for a Mark I which is the slab sided canopy with the knockout panel
(http://www.spitfire.dk/mk1.jpg)
AR213 would never have had a 2 blade prop as a late production Mk I.
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look up AR213 Mk IA spit I have a picture of it's got the bulged canopy (top and sides) I can scan the picture if you'd like. spit P7350 MKII , all restored to original flying condition apart from the 4 blade prop instead of 2 blade fixed. (AR213 is being repainted as a "Bounce" aircraft at the moment as it was in 1941).
Mod 461 for the Spit V is for a 'balloon' hood. (retro fit all marks) dated Oct 21 1941
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ahh . i'll just shut up now and whimper in the corner , rocking back and fore on my heels . suggestions should I mutter :
"bugger bugger bugger"
or:
"I knew I should have sown my mouth up"