Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Stegahorse on April 13, 2010, 04:04:55 PM
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http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/photo.php?pid=264407&id=100000075846296 (http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/photo.php?pid=264407&id=100000075846296)
This is a picture of the P47-D25 at Lackland AFG that is the memorial for Gen. Gabretski. Notice the fillet in front of the vertical stabilizer. this was added after the fastback was removed and the bubble canopy installed. The removal of the fastback part of the fuselaage resulted in a severe Yaw problem which the fillet fixed. it may seem small, but it is an important feature of the D-25to29 series Thunderbolt. Please add it to ours.
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I get a "You must log in to see this page." I'll die in peace if I never log into Facebook.
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same here
I guess Fuzeman ain't going to be my MySpace buddy now :cry
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suggest another place to post it please.
:bolt:
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Photobucket
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Try this
http://s1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/Stegahorse/AH/?action=view¤t=GabbyMem.jpg (http://s1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/Stegahorse/AH/?action=view¤t=GabbyMem.jpg)
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(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk121/TheAmish/Terminating.gif)
That is interesting. What was the purpose of that i wonder.
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You do understand that the P47 in your photo is a P47N right? It just happens to be painted as Gabreski's bird which didn't have the fillet in reality.
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The plaque in front of it says P-47D-25 , Gabretski Memorial. :rofl
It sits on the Lackland AFB on the edge of the parade grounds, My Son pointed it out to me at his Graduation Ceremony. :rock
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Our N models in the game doesn't have this fillet......do they?
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D25 not N or M
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The plaque in front of it says P-47D-25 , Gabretski Memorial. :rofl
It sits on the Lackland AFB on the edge of the parade grounds, My Son pointed it out to me at his Graduation Ceremony. :rock
Gabreski flew a D-25. The memorial is a P47N painted like Gabreski's D-25. Look at the wing shape as well as the shape of the fillet. That's all P47N
The N model in game has the fillet as does the D-40
Go to the 56th Gallery on Little Friends and note that many of the P47Ms also do not have the fillet.
http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery.php?Group=56&Style=item&origStyle=list&Item=299&Temp=2295&searchString=
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The plaque in front of it says P-47D-25 , Gabretski Memorial. :rofl
It sits on the Lackland AFB on the edge of the parade grounds, My Son pointed it out to me at his Graduation Ceremony. :rock
"This P-47N is painted in colors representing the P-47D flown by Lt. Col. Francis S. Gabreski while leader of the 61st Fighter Squadron 56th Fighter Group, 8th Air Force. The markings on the plane show the "D" Day invasion stripes and the 28 confirmed air victories made by Lt. Col. Gabreski."
http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM3CTA_P_47_Thunderbolt_Lackland_AFB_San_Antonio_Texas
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Forgive my ignorance, but what is the purpose of the fillet? I believe the 51D also has this too.
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Longitudinal stability.
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yup thats why slow D25 = lotsa yaw. its ok though, at d300 the pendulum effect is only about the wingspan of a fighter :D
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It's nothing compared to what it used to be. Back in AH1 you could fly an early D-11 and notice the stability compared to a D-40. Same goes for P-51B and P-51D. You used to spin into your tight turns MUCH more easily in the D pony than the B because of the razorback-added-stability.
Sadly, this and a few other things seriously seem to be lacking in current AH2. I don't honestly recall WHEN they went away, but it was AH2 or sometime in the early revisions of AH2 that it happened. The F4u became an uber spit, basically, and lost its torque instability, and some other issues similar to the P51/P47 lack of spins.
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The N has the Squared off wings. The D25 does not. The N, M and D40 have the fillet. Our D25 does not as it should. As Stated Above Gabretski did not transfer to the Ms or Ns. The Air Force museum says the Memorial is a D25. :x
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From the P-47D-30-RE production lots onward, a dorsal fin was fitted just ahead of the
rudder.
The N has the Squared off wings. The D25 does not. The N, M and D40 have the fillet. Our D25 does not as it should. As Stated Above Gabretski did not transfer to the Ms or Ns. The Air Force museum says the Memorial is a D25. :x
The plaque clearly says it's an N model painted in the colors to represent Grabreski's Jug.
(http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/large/5122b926-21b4-4ff4-9949-dccf254ecea3.jpg)
ack-ack
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"This P-47N is painted in colors representing the P-47D flown by Lt. Col. Francis S. Gabreski while leader of the 61st Fighter Squadron 56th Fighter Group, 8th Air Force. The markings on the plane show the "D" Day invasion stripes and the 28 confirmed air victories made by Lt. Col. Gabreski."
I am sure that many if not most of those 28 kills were in Razorbacks. Those were the real fighter jugs.
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From the P-47D-30-RE production lots onward, a dorsal fin was fitted just ahead of the
rudder.
The plaque clearly says it's an N model painted in the colors to represent Grabreski's Jug.
(http://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/large/5122b926-21b4-4ff4-9949-dccf254ecea3.jpg)
ack-ack
Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to myself with this stuff :)
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Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to myself with this stuff :)
Especially when the plaque says it's a P-47N painted to look like Gabreski's P-47D. But I'm still envious of Stegahorse because he got to see it in person and I can only see it in a picture.
ack-ack
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:furiousOK, OK! I concede the point, but the
D25 was the first to have the fillet.
All our favorite American Iron is on Lackland AFB.
Most of them are around the parade grounds!
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Forgive my ignorance, but what is the purpose of the fillet? I believe the 51D also has this too.
Yes the P-51D recieved the fin on the -10 model -1's and -5's didnt have them and it was for directional stability. We have a P-51D-30 in the game.
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:furiousOK, OK! I concede the point, but the
D25 was the first to have the fillet.
All our favorite American Iron is on Lackland AFB.
Most of them are around the parade grounds!
No it wasn't. From the P-47D-30-RE onward, the dorsal fin was added to the Jug, not the D-25.
ack-ack
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Can't be any more clear then this. Gabby's bird, bellied in the day he went down. NO FILLET!
(http://gallery.kitmaker.net/data/20616/Gabby_Bellylanded.jpg)
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Yes the P-51D recieved the fin on the -10 model -1's and -5's didnt have them and it was for directional stability. We have a P-51D-30 in the game.
Earlier models of the 51D got fin fillet kits. Even the razorbacks.
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Earlier models of the 51D got fin fillet kits. Even the razorbacks.
And many did not.
(http://www.aircrewremembrancesociety.com/usaaf1944/christian_files/col-christian-361fg-p-51d-44-13410-002820029.jpg)
Note the mixed formation? P-51D without fillet, P-51D with fillet, P-51B without fillet. They often just flew the plane until it was replaced, and P-51B/Cs were flying alongside Ds all the way to the end of the war, just about.
EDIT:
don't know if that image likes hotlinking.. Here's a different one:
(http://www.bermuda-triangle.org/assets/images/P-51D.jpg)
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Thanks Krusty. Guess I should have written 'were made available for retro fitting to earlier models'.
The Ds are P-51D-5-NA.
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No it wasn't. From the P-47D-30-RE onward, the dorsal fin was added to the Jug, not the D-25.
ack-ack
Actually it was the D-40 and kits were made for earlier models to be retrofitted in the field. Bubble-tops started with the D-25.
"The D-25 was followed by similar bubble-top variants, including the P47 D-26, D-27, D-28 and D-30. Improvements added in this series included engine refinements, more internal fuel capacity, and the addition of dive recovery flaps. Cutting down the rear fuselage to accommodate the bubble canopy produced yaw instability, and the P-47D-40 introduced a dorsal fin extension in the form of a narrow triangle running from the vertical tailplane to the radio aerial. The fin fillet was retrofitted in the field to earlier P47 D bubble-top variants. The P-47D-40 also featured provisions for ten "zero length" stub launchers for 5 inch (127 mm) High Velocity Aerial Rockets (HVARs), as well as the new K-14 computing gunsight."
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The D-30 was the first production model to roll out with the dorsal fin. Whether or not some of the D-25s were retrofitted on the field to have them still doesn't change the fact that rolled out of the factory, the D-25 did not have the dorsal fin.
Another example, some P-51B/Cs incorporated some of the improvements of the P-51D model, namely the repositioning of the machine guns in the wing to fix the jamming issues with the B/C models. These changes were done on the field and not rolled out of the factory this way. Same with the dorsal fin on the D-25 Jug.
ack-ack
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Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to myself with this stuff :)
Did any of you hear something?? Never mind guess it was not relevant.
Sorry about that had to go there.
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Longitudinal stability.
Directional stability, actually.
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Yaw stability if you want to get picky. :old:
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Yaw stability if you want to get picky. :old:
Same difference.
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The D-30 was the first production model to roll out with the dorsal fin. Whether or not some of the D-25s were retrofitted on the field to have them still doesn't change the fact that rolled out of the factory, the D-25 did not have the dorsal fin.
Another example, some P-51B/Cs incorporated some of the improvements of the P-51D model, namely the repositioning of the machine guns in the wing to fix the jamming issues with the B/C models. These changes were done on the field and not rolled out of the factory this way. Same with the dorsal fin on the D-25 Jug.
ack-ack
Like I said previous the D-40 was the first to come out with the fin from the factory. The D-30 had it incorporated/added to ..later.
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Like I said previous the D-40 was the first to come out with the fin from the factory. The D-30 had it incorporated/added to ..later.
I wonder if that's completely accurate. Bodie's P47 'Bible" states that the D-40 was the first production run to all have the fin fillet added during production. He also comments that 'if dorsal fins were introduced during this series, it had to be very late in the production run". This was in reference to the D-28 Jug. Clearly not all D-30s had the fillet, but I think it's closer to the truth that the dorsal fillet was introduced during the D-30 production run and was standardized by the D-40 run
I'm hard pressed not to go with Bodie. Wonder where Widewing is for this one?
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I wonder if that's completely accurate. Bodie's P47 'Bible" states that the D-40 was the first production run to all have the fin fillet added during production. He also comments that 'if dorsal fins were introduced during this series, it had to be very late in the production run". This was in reference to the D-28 Jug. Clearly not all D-30s had the fillet, but I think it's closer to the truth that the dorsal fillet was introduced during the D-30 production run and was standardized by the D-40 run
I'm hard pressed not to go with Bodie. Wonder where Widewing is for this one?
I've been wondering the same thing, he hasn't been posting very often lately. Maybe it's time we break out the Widewing signal.
ack-ack
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I've been wondering the same thing, he hasn't been posting very often lately. Maybe it's time we break out the Widewing signal.
ack-ack
I've been insanely busy of late... I did find this thread tho..
The first version delivered from the factory with the dorsal fin was the D-40. However, most D-30s were retrofitted either before being shipped overseas, or after arriving during reassembly. You can find D-28s with the fin as well. I think that you'll find very few D-25s, D-26s and only slightly more D-27s so retrofitted. Largely due the time frame when retro kits were being distributed. Retrofits made in the field were usually carried out during major inspections or when tired fighters were sent for overhaul.
My regards,
Widewing
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:aok
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Can't be any more clear then this. Gabby's bird, bellied in the day he went down. NO FILLET!
(http://gallery.kitmaker.net/data/20616/Gabby_Bellylanded.jpg)
Wonder whether he was treated as a celeb or not by the Germans when they got him?
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Wonder whether he was treated as a celeb or not by the Germans when they got him?
In his biography he said that they were expecting him, as he was joining many other 56th officers like Hub Zemke and Jerry Johnson, in the POW camp(Stalag Luft I in Barth, Germany on the Baltic). He was supposed to go home the day of his last mission and bent his props strafing parked HE 111s. The camp was abandoned by the guards (who tended to be old not fit for combat types) because of fear of the advancing Russians. Compared to German aces Gabby w his 34.5 confirmed was a pretty modest scorer but I'm sure they were glad to have him!