Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SFRT - Frenchy on April 14, 2010, 07:22:27 PM
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Voila ...le vroom vroom. :pray
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/olythekid/IMG_3244.jpg)
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is that a real one or a kit car?
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looks like a ferrari but its not....a mini shelby??
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looks like a ferrari but its not....a mini shelby??
neither :aok
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lol not an MG midget either lol idk i give up
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lol not an MG midget either lol idk i give up
WAIT!!! is it a shelby? im looking at the hood emblem... It looks like the Shelby symbol...
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Austin Healy
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english shelby or american shelby??
american:
(http://www.dragtimes.com/images/14487-2007-Shelby%20American-Cobra.jpg)
english:
(http://damox.com/cars/thumbs/Shelby/Shelby_Cobra_blue_with_white_stripes.jpg)
WAIT!!! is it a shelby? im looking at the hood emblem... It looks like the Shelby symbol...
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Austin Healy
Not a Healey logo...
But it DOES look a bit like this.
(http://www.cartype.com/pics/335/full/shelby_cobra_new.jpg)
My Dad had (recently sold it) an AC Bristol.
Shelby used the AC Bristol to make the Cobras hence the name; AC Cobra.
This is is very similar to what my Dad just sold. Think only 1/2 dozen or so left in the U.S.
Gorgeous cars. Fun to drive as well.
(http://bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/1958_AC_Ace_Bristol_Roadster_For_Sale_Front_1.jpg)
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looks like a ferrari but its not....a mini shelby??
There's an earthquake in Italy, rumors have it the epicenter is right at Enzo's tumb.
And from the opposing team : "There's no such thing as a AC Cobra", Carroll. Shelby.
Skuzzy will straighten u out when he's showing for work. I hear a ruler whipping a desk ...:uhoh... have a seat and wait to be lectured. :old:
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Looks like a mark I Shelby 427 competition roadster, though the front is different from other mk I's I've seen.
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Looks like C0X6053. A picture from a lower angle more to the left would be helpful in revealing some more of its details.
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Here is some early morning porn for Skuzzy.
Thread w/ some great pictures (http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=140&t=734400&mid=0&i=0&nmt=AC%20Cobra%20continuation%20question&mid=0)
And from the opposing team : "There's no such thing as a AC Cobra", Carroll. Shelby.
It depended on where you lived actually. In the states it was a Shelby Cobra. Elsewhere, such as England, it was marketed as an AC Cobra.
(http://www.historicinsurance.co.uk/historic/Gallery/1290.jpg)
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WAIT!!! is it a shelby? im looking at the hood emblem... It looks like the Shelby symbol...
looks like one of the smallblock cobras.
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First racing Cobra, CSX2002. :cool:
(http://image.motortrend.com/f/auto-news/shelby-ford-partner-for-first-factory-racing-team-since-1969/10238776+w527+st0/vintage-shelby-cobra-race-car.jpg)
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I'll take a 1965 427S/C Cobra not kit car version anyday over the CSX...
(http://www.mustangcobrasvt.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/67-shelby-cobra-427.jpg)
OR my dream car the...
(http://www2.diariomotor.com/imagenes/2009/08/Porsche_911_GT2_.jpg)
Can anyone guess the Porsche model by any chance? Alot of porsches look very alike :aok
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First racing Cobra, CSX2002. :cool:
(http://image.motortrend.com/f/auto-news/shelby-ford-partner-for-first-factory-racing-team-since-1969/10238776+w527+st0/vintage-shelby-cobra-race-car.jpg)
It is a poor restoration then. I thought that is what it was, but the rear and front flares are not right or the angle of the photo is distorting them. That is why I wished for a better photo.
The hood scoop diffuser is also not correct. CSX2002 did not have an oil cooler either. Those came after the 390 experiments and were standard on all big blocks. The only small block Cobras to get the oil cooler were the FIA cars and a few were added later on as an after thought (there was no oil cooler scoop on CSX2002).
Overall, a nice catch though.
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321BAR, the Cobra in your picture is a kit, not an original.
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Skuzz, that's the one from Shelby American Collection owned now by Larry Miller. It's original csx2002, restored by Geoff Howard. Front flares are correct and as they were found on street csx roadster (front and rear). 2002 had rears enlarged (it's a FIA racer). The hood is original (including scoop). None of the early FIA racers had oil scoops at first, they were added later on all 289ers (in 64 or 65 I think). All cobra FIA racers pretty much changed their looks from race to race, so it's kinda hard to argue how they should look like.
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It is a poor restoration then. I thought that is what it was, but the rear and front flares are not right or the angle of the photo is distorting them. That is why I wished for a better photo.
The hood scoop diffuser is also not correct. CSX2002 did not have an oil cooler either. Those came after the 390 experiments and were standard on all big blocks. The only small block Cobras to get the oil cooler were the FIA cars and a few were added later on as an after thought (there was no oil cooler scoop on CSX2002).
Overall, a nice catch though.
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321BAR, the Cobra in your picture is a kit, not an original.
really? you know your cobras sir :cheers: but nobody knows the porsche yet?
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I share Bighorn's answer.
WMLute, I hear u there, but we are talking about a man with quite an ego proportional to his age.
321BAR, 997 GT2? BTW why do u like it better than the Turbo, or GT3 ... or SC? GT2 is RWD only right?
... to me the Cobra is not all that. Cool car indeed, but it's like those old ACDC songs that u ear 5 times a day on the radio. I'd rather have a Daytona kit car over a Cobra.
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Here comes the sacrilege!
(http://the-car-club.co.uk/Images/Pictures/Mitsubishi-GTO-%5BJAE-2005%5D-400.jpg)
:noid To the bunker! :bolt:
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I share Bighorn's answer.
WMLute, I hear u there, but we are talking about a man with quite an ego proportional to his age.
321BAR, 997 GT2? BTW why do u like it better than the Turbo, or GT3 ... or SC? GT2 is RWD only right?
... to me the Cobra is not all that. Cool car indeed, but it's like those old ACDC songs that u ear 5 times a day on the radio. I'd rather have a Daytona kit car over a Cobra.
GT3 is actually less of a car than the GT2 series ( the GT3 was made as a compromise for lower price compared to the GT2s) and the Turbos react on tracks as equal to or even worse than the GT3s. The newest Caymen S and the Boxter S types can actually run a course in the same amount of time as the Turbo. Just because the Turbo is AWD doesnt mean it handles better than RWD... Many people believe that just because its the GT3 and the third line in the GTs its better than the GT1 or GT2... Those people got it backwards :aok The 911 GT1 is usually an F1 Car :x , the GT2 is one of the best road-going cars and the top of the line 911 model and because its the 997 series its the best of the best in the 911s. -----523bhp, 501lb ft of torque, accelerates from 0-62 in 3.7 seconds, to 100mph in 7.4, and tops out as stock built at 204mph... and also, the 911 Turbo doesnt mean its the only 911 allowing turbos if youre confused with that... In fact the 911 GT2 is based upon the 911 turbo and comes as stock WITH a turbo :D because the use of RWD over the Turbo's AWD it is significantly lighter and includes a more powerful engine and a stiffer suspension calibration system... Very nice on the 997, or was that a guess compared to the 996? alot of people cant compare them they look so much alike
Edit: in the end... if you want the precision accurate feeling that posches give going around corners and the speed and acceleration and good looks of a very nice european sports car, you need the Porsche 911 GT2 - 997 series
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Here comes the sacrilege!
(http://the-car-club.co.uk/Images/Pictures/Mitsubishi-GTO-%5BJAE-2005%5D-400.jpg)
:noid To the bunker! :bolt:
AHH!!!!! MY EYEEEESSSSS!!!!! :cry
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Skuzz, that's the one from Shelby American Collection owned now by Larry Miller. It's original csx2002, restored by Geoff Howard. Front flares are correct and as they were found on street csx roadster (front and rear). 2002 had rears enlarged (it's a FIA racer). The hood is original (including scoop). None of the early FIA racers had oil scoops at first, they were added later on all 289ers (in 64 or 65 I think). All cobra FIA racers pretty much changed their looks from race to race, so it's kinda hard to argue how they should look like.
It all depends on what your definition of "original" is then.
The flares on the restored car do not match the original flares at all. The original fender flares were very crude. The fender wells were cut out, by hand, and flat pieces of aluminum welded into place to cover the tires. This car has been modified to include elements from the street versions of the Cobra and race (FIA) versions as well.
CSX2002 did not have a hood scoop to start with. None of the Cobras, prior to CSX2127 had hood scoops. The early cars had them added on later. Whether you want to call this a point of contention as to it being an "original" or not is a purist matter, I suppose. CSX2002 originally did not have an oil cooler either.
I do not see this car as an "original" restoration. It is a good, comtemporary restoration, but it is not an "original" restoration. For it to qualify as an original it would have been restored to its original form in which it left the shop/factory. CSX2002 was not an FIA roadster and this car has been altered to FIA regulations.
Serial #'s 2259, 2260, 2301, 2323, and 2345 were the original FIA roadsters. This restoration looks more like CSX2259, which was an FIA roadster and also happened to wear the number 16. I found a picture (I wish I could post the pictures I have) of it in my collection and this restoration comes closer to matching CSX2259, than the original CSX2002.
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Voila ...le vroom vroom. :pray
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/olythekid/IMG_3244.jpg)
looks like a MkII to me, 289?
My Dad had (recently sold it) an AC Bristol.
pretty sure they were called AC Ace in US too, maybe known as AC Bristol to specify the Bristol 2.0l rather than AC 2.0l straight six earlier cars had? some later ones also used a Ford 2.6l straight six.
lovely car, why sell it?
I saw an Aceca last summer, very rare, very beautiful, like this but BRG :aok
(http://www.mimia.nl/imagauto/AC_Aceca_1957.jpg)
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GT3 is actually less of a car than the GT2 series ( the GT3 was made as a compromise for lower price compared to the GT2s)
The 911 GT1 is usually an F1 Car :x
:headscratch: GT3 is not a compromised or cheaper version of the GT2 at all, its a more track oriented development of the carrera. with a few tweaks it becomes the GT3 RS for even more track bias. a few more tweaks and its a GT3 Cup for single make series racing. couple more tweaks and its a GT3 R for racing in FIA GT3 class. couple more tweaks and its a GT3 RSR for racing in FIA GT2 class.
unlike the GT2, the GT3 has a clear racing development path. I'm not even sure if the GT2 is raced, certainly not in the FIA GT2 class. Ive always wondered what the point of the GT2 is, apart from having a limited numbers uber-911 to sell in the middle east. the name is certainly misleading.
911 GT1 has never been an F1 car, as the name suggests its a LMP-type race car homologated for FIA GT1 class.
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is that a real one or a kit car?
Real. Looks like a 289, possibly C0X2002.
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It all depends on what your definition of "original" is then.
The flares on the restored car do not match the original flares at all. The original fender flares were very crude. The fender wells were cut out, by hand, and flat pieces of aluminum welded into place to cover the tires. This car has been modified to include elements from the street versions of the Cobra and race (FIA) versions as well.
CSX2002 did not have a hood scoop to start with. None of the Cobras, prior to CSX2127 had hood scoops. The early cars had them added on later. Whether you want to call this a point of contention as to it being an "original" or not is a purist matter, I suppose. CSX2002 originally did not have an oil cooler either.
I do not see this car as an "original" restoration. It is a good, comtemporary restoration, but it is not an "original" restoration. For it to qualify as an original it would have been restored to its original form in which it left the shop/factory. CSX2002 was not an FIA roadster and this car has been altered to FIA regulations.
Serial #'s 2259, 2260, 2301, 2323, and 2345 were the original FIA roadsters. This restoration looks more like CSX2259, which was an FIA roadster and also happened to wear the number 16. I found a picture (I wish I could post the pictures I have) of it in my collection and this restoration comes closer to matching CSX2259, than the original CSX2002.
Amen on the "not an original restoration". While it looks good, I'd keep it truly original if it were mine.
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"as it left the factory" is fine for restoring a production road car, allowing factory options and even contemporary mods (eg. Minilite wheels or Weber carbs on cars that commonly had them even if not offered as a factory option.)
if you apply "as it left the factory" to race cars you'd have alot of bare chassis on steel wheels being pushed around. "as it raced at the time" is a much better/realistic goal. :)
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In its original condition the car is a vintage racer. Vintage race cars deserve to be restored to the condition they were originally used in. It is what defines an "original restoration".
If one choses to update the car to comtemporary standards, it is not longer a restoration. It is no longer an original. This has been what separates originals from updates since the inception of the "classic" automobile.
Everything I have about CSX2002 shows this car has not been restored. It has been updated and no longer carries the value a true restoration would. However, as a contemporary update, it is nicely done and holds true to much of the history of the family Cobra.
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In its original condition the car is a vintage racer. Vintage race cars deserve to be restored to the condition they were originally used in. It is what defines an "original restoration".
If one choses to update the car to comtemporary standards, it is not longer a restoration. It is no longer an original. This has been what separates originals from updates since the inception of the "classic" automobile.
Everything I have about CSX2002 shows this car has not been restored. It has been updated and no longer carries the value a true restoration would. However, as a contemporary update, it is nicely done and holds true to much of the history of the family Cobra.
Yep.
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I dunno, csx2002 looks pretty much identical to when it raced in the '63 season to me :headscratch:
its a good example though, "as it left the factory" it was a flat sided MkI body with no wheelarch flares, or indeed engine and transmission or chassis strengthening. lots of work was done to it before it raced in '62, and plenty during the season, and again during off-season. looks to me that for '63 they used the quarter panels from the MkII?
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:headscratch: GT3 is not a compromised or cheaper version of the GT2 at all, its a more track oriented development of the carrera. with a few tweaks it becomes the GT3 RS for even more track bias. a few more tweaks and its a GT3 Cup for single make series racing. couple more tweaks and its a GT3 R for racing in FIA GT3 class. couple more tweaks and its a GT3 RSR for racing in FIA GT2 class.
unlike the GT2, the GT3 has a clear racing development path. I'm not even sure if the GT2 is raced, certainly not in the FIA GT2 class. Ive always wondered what the point of the GT2 is, apart from having a limited numbers uber-911 to sell in the middle east. the name is certainly misleading.
911 GT1 has never been an F1 car, as the name suggests its a LMP-type race car homologated for FIA GT1 class.
really? i guess i was mistaken about the GT1 then. But the fact is though that the comparison between consumer versions of the 911 GT2 and GT3 the GT2 always wins outright. I mean even in fuel consumption it gets 22mpg :lol
0-60 in a GT3 4.0 seconds. 0-62 in GT2 3.7 seconds.
Top speeds: GT2- 204mph. GT3- 194mph
GT3 fuel consumption- 14 mpg city, 22 highway.
BHP of the GT3- 415 GT2- 523.
curb weights: GT3- 3075 GT2- 3175
GT2's braking is ceramic as standard while the GT3 is optional and both take the active suspension management as standard...
When would i ever need to have a GT3 Cup R or RSR? although i would take a GT3 RS... :cheers:
Edit: found out where the GT1 raced. it was specifically made for the Le Mans races
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To me Original restoration doesn't have to be when the car was first raced, but how the car was at any moment of her racing career. I surely don't know enought in Cobras to join the argument about what's what, but #16 looks pretty close of the one I posted in black and white previously ... and she does have the hood scoop. We are talking about those first competition Cobras that blew their rear ends right?
In 63 the car already has the scoop and those bottom coolers.
http://www.racingsportscars.com/chassis/photo/CSX2002.html (http://www.racingsportscars.com/chassis/photo/CSX2002.html)
CSX2002
1978
(http://www.cobraferrariwars.com/1-pix-cfw/original/csx-2002-crica-1978.jpg)
1982 :D
(http://www.cobraferrariwars.com/1-pix-cfw/original/red-ac-cobra.jpg)
I agree with Holmes all the way. But u can't really compare the GT2 and GT3 as to me they are not really the same purpose cars. It's kind of like the "new line" of Mustangs. You have the GT, the Shelby GT, the GT500 and the Super Snake. In parallel u have the racing oriented ones starting by the modest FR500C, FR500S to the full out FR500GT.
To me the Strassenversion ain't a 911 anymore, more like a Carrera GT.
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I agree with Holmes all the way. But u can't really compare the GT2 and GT3 as to me they are not really the same purpose cars. It's kind of like the "new line" of Mustangs. You have the GT, the Shelby GT, the GT500 and the Super Snake. In parallel u have the racing oriented ones starting by the modest FR500C, FR500S to the full out FR500GT.
To me the Strassenversion ain't a 911 anymore, more like a Carrera GT.
But the thing is is that the 911 GT3 and GT2 actually DO have the same purpose. Either in the consumer market or the racing market... Consumers buy it for pleasure, either to have fun showing off or to have fun racing them. And in the racing market both can be tweaked and upgraded to become extremely competitive racers...
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I don't share ur POV, to prove your point you have to list GT2s enrolled in a professional racing serie ... Not 997 GT3s runing a "GT2" class. :devil
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"The GT2 and GT2 Evos were initially campaigned in the BPR Global GT Series as well as several other smaller national series, and earned seven wins in their class out of eleven rounds in their first full BPR season in 1996, as well as a class victory in the 24 Hours of Le Mans, and again in 1997. In the new FIA GT Championship that year, although Porsche faced factory-backed competition from Chrysler, the 911 GT2s managed to win three races. By 1998 however, the capabilities of the GT2 were unable to combat the increased number of Dodge/Chrysler Viper GTS-Rs in the series, earning only a sole victory.
By 1999 the GT2s had been overpowered by the Vipers, as well as newcomers Lister, however Roock Racing managed to win the GT2 at the 24 Hours of Daytona. An increase in engine displacement to 3.8 litres in 2000 was unable to help Porsche, and support for the project ended. Porsche chose instead to concentrate on the new N-GT category with the GT3-Rs that same year. GT2s continued to be used by small teams up to 2004.
With the launch of the 996 generation GT2, several privateers attempted to continue on the motorsports history by building their own racing versions. Belgian PSI Motorsports' 911 Bi-Turbo and German A-Level Engineering's 911 GT2-R were used to mix success in national series such as Belcar, but were unable to be successful in international series."
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yup
993 GT2 - factory developed and raced in GT2, proper race heritage, homologated roadgoing monster and genuine porsche classic.
996 GT2 - minor race history, not supplied as racecar by factory or raced in GT2, borrows name and rep from 993 GT2.
997 GT2 - no race heritage at all, now 2 generations from genuine GT2, toy for arabs.
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yup
993 GT2 - factory developed and raced in GT2, proper race heritage, homologated roadgoing monster and genuine porsche classic.
996 GT2 - minor race history, not supplied as racecar by factory or raced in GT2, borrows name and rep from 993 GT2.
997 GT2 - no race heritage at all, now 2 generations from genuine GT2, toy for arabs.
true but this still does not show how the GT2 is or is not better than the GT3 for the casual consumer
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true but this still does not show how the GT2 is or is not better than the GT3 for the casual consumer
Exactly.
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"The GT2 and GT2 Evos were initially campaigned in the BPR Global GT Series as well as several other smaller national series, and earned seven wins in their class out of eleven rounds in their first full BPR season in 1996, as well as a class victory in the 24 Hours of Le Mans, and again in 1997. In the new FIA GT Championship that year, although Porsche faced factory-backed competition from Chrysler, the 911 GT2s managed to win three races. By 1998 however, the capabilities of the GT2 were unable to combat the increased number of Dodge/Chrysler Viper GTS-Rs in the series, earning only a sole victory.
By 1999 the GT2s had been overpowered by the Vipers, as well as newcomers Lister, however Roock Racing managed to win the GT2 at the 24 Hours of Daytona. An increase in engine displacement to 3.8 litres in 2000 was unable to help Porsche, and support for the project ended. Porsche chose instead to concentrate on the new N-GT category with the GT3-Rs that same year. GT2s continued to be used by small teams up to 2004.
With the launch of the 996 generation GT2, several privateers attempted to continue on the motorsports history by building their own racing versions. Belgian PSI Motorsports' 911 Bi-Turbo and German A-Level Engineering's 911 GT2-R were used to mix success in national series such as Belcar, but were unable to be successful in international series."
I don't know what source you've quoted, but the Vette's did a lot more "dominating" than the Vipers.
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I don't know what source you've quoted, but the Vette's did a lot more "dominating" than the Vipers.
true... but i'd still like to stick myself inside a competition coupe viper :D either that or a Zr1... btw is it true Dodge is discontinuing the Vipers?
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I don't know what source you've quoted, but the Vette's did a lot more "dominating" than the Vipers.
It's that staple of truth and all things fact... Wikipedia.