Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Technical Support => Topic started by: saggs on April 15, 2010, 11:37:34 PM
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I've been plagued by short total freeze ups on this system since I built it. Where everything, video, sound, keyboard, mouse will freeze up for 5-10 seconds then return to normal. About every third or forth time this happens the whole screen will blackout for half a second at the end of the freeze up and come back with the message.
"Display NVIDIA Windows Kernel Mode Driver, version 197.45 stopped responding and has successfully recovered"
Problem started in Vista and has continued since I got 7.
I just updated to 197.45 last week to see if that would help, and the problem has actually now become more frequent. It really sucks in the middle of a low dogfight to have everything freeze for 10 seconds, and come back to "you have crashed"
This is not strictly an AH problem it happens in any program, but perhaps more often in AH, or maybe that's just my perception I haven't actually logged them.
DXdiag:
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 4/15/2010, 22:41:04
Machine name: KIRK-PC
Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (6.1, Build 7600) (7600.win7_gdr.100226-1909)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd.
System Model: EP45-UD3P
BIOS: Award Modular BIOS v6.00PG
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q8200 @ 2.33GHz (4 CPUs), ~2.3GHz
Memory: 6144MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 6142MB RAM
Page File: 1332MB used, 10950MB available
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
DxDiag Version: 6.01.7600.16385 64bit Unicode
------------
DxDiag Notes
------------
Display Tab 1: No problems found.
Sound Tab 1: No problems found.
Sound Tab 2: No problems found.
Input Tab: No problems found.
--------------------
DirectX Debug Levels
--------------------
Direct3D: 0/4 (retail)
DirectDraw: 0/4 (retail)
DirectInput: 0/5 (retail)
DirectMusic: 0/5 (retail)
DirectPlay: 0/9 (retail)
DirectSound: 0/5 (retail)
DirectShow: 0/6 (retail)
---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce 8400 GS
Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Chip type: GeForce 8400 GS
DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_06E4&SUBSYS_82BC1043&REV_A1
Display Memory: 3310 MB
Dedicated Memory: 495 MB
Shared Memory: 2815 MB
Current Mode: 1920 x 1080 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor Name: Generic PnP Monitor
Monitor Model: X233H
Monitor Id: ACR009A
Native Mode: 1920 x 1080(p) (60.000Hz)
Output Type: HD15
Driver Name: nvd3dumx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvd3dum,nvwgf2um,nvwgf2um
Driver File Version: 8.17.0011.9713 (English)
Driver Version: 8.17.11.9713
DDI Version: 10
Driver Model: WDDM 1.1
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 3/16/2010 00:51:59, 11906152 bytes
WHQL Logo'd: Yes
WHQL Date Stamp:
Device Identifier: {D7B71E3E-45A4-11CF-0256-B7A21FC2C535}
Vendor ID: 0x10DE
Device ID: 0x06E4
SubSys ID: 0x82BC1043-------------
Sound Devices
-------------
Description: Speakers (Realtek High Definition Audio)
Default Sound Playback: Yes
Default Voice Playback: Yes
Hardware ID: HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_10EC&DEV_0885&SUBSYS_1458A102&REV_1001
Manufacturer ID: 1
Product ID: 100
Type: WDM
Driver Name: RTKVHD64.sys
Driver Version: 6.00.0001.5780 (English)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
WHQL Logo'd: Yes
Date and Size: 1/20/2009 00:12:54, 1699744 bytes
Other Files:
Driver Provider: Realtek Semiconductor Corp.
HW Accel Level: Basic
Cap Flags: 0xF1F
Min/Max Sample Rate: 100, 200000
Static/Strm HW Mix Bufs: 1, 0
Static/Strm HW 3D Bufs: 0, 0
HW Memory: 0
Voice Management: No
EAX(tm) 2.0 Listen/Src: No, No
I3DL2(tm) Listen/Src: No, No
Sensaura(tm) ZoomFX(tm): No
Description: Realtek Digital Output (Realtek High Definition Audio)
Default Sound Playback: No
Default Voice Playback: No
Hardware ID: HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_10EC&DEV_0885&SUBSYS_1458A102&REV_1001
Manufacturer ID: 1
Product ID: 100
Type: WDM
Driver Name: RTKVHD64.sys
Driver Version: 6.00.0001.5780 (English)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
WHQL Logo'd: Yes
Date and Size: 1/20/2009 00:12:54, 1699744 bytes
Other Files:
Driver Provider: Realtek Semiconductor Corp.
HW Accel Level: Basic
Cap Flags: 0xF1F
Min/Max Sample Rate: 100, 200000
Static/Strm HW Mix Bufs: 1, 0
Static/Strm HW 3D Bufs: 0, 0
HW Memory: 0
Voice Management: No
EAX(tm) 2.0 Listen/Src: No, No
I3DL2(tm) Listen/Src: No, No
Sensaura(tm) ZoomFX(tm): No
---------------------
Sound Capture Devices
---------------------
Description: Microphone (Realtek High Definition Audio)
Default Sound Capture: Yes
Default Voice Capture: Yes
Driver Name: RTKVHD64.sys
Driver Version: 6.00.0001.5780 (English)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Date and Size: 1/20/2009 00:12:54, 1699744 bytes
Cap Flags: 0x1
Format Flags: 0xFFFFF
Description: Realtek Digital Input (Realtek High Definition Audio)
Default Sound Capture: No
Default Voice Capture: No
Driver Name: RTKVHD64.sys
Driver Version: 6.00.0001.5780 (English)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Date and Size: 1/20/2009 00:12:54, 1699744 bytes
Cap Flags: 0x1
Format Flags: 0xFFFFF
-------------------
DirectInput Devices
-------------------
Device Name: Mouse
Attached: 1
Controller ID: n/a
Vendor/Product ID: n/a
FF Driver: n/a
Device Name: Keyboard
Attached: 1
Controller ID: n/a
Vendor/Product ID: n/a
FF Driver: n/a
Device Name: Logitech Extreme 3D
Attached: 1
Controller ID: 0x0
Vendor/Product ID: 0x046D, 0xC215
FF Driver: n/a
Poll w/ Interrupt: No
-----------
USB Devices
-----------
+ USB Root Hub
| Vendor/Product ID: 0x8086, 0x3A35
| Matching Device ID: usb\root_hub
| Service: usbhub
| Driver: usbhub.sys, 7/13/2009 18:07:09, 343040 bytes
| Driver: usbd.sys, 7/13/2009 18:06:23, 7936 bytes
----------------
Gameport Devices
----------------
------------
PS/2 Devices
------------
+ Standard PS/2 Keyboard
| Matching Device ID: *pnp0303
| Service: i8042prt
| Driver: i8042prt.sys, 7/13/2009 17:19:57, 105472 bytes
| Driver: kbdclass.sys, 7/13/2009 19:48:04, 50768 bytes
|
+ HID Keyboard Device
| Matching Device ID: hid_device_system_keyboard
| Service: kbdhid
| Driver: kbdhid.sys, 7/13/2009 18:00:20, 33280 bytes
| Driver: kbdclass.sys, 7/13/2009 19:48:04, 50768 bytes
|
+ Terminal Server Keyboard Driver
| Matching Device ID: root\rdp_kbd
| Upper Filters: kbdclass
| Service: TermDD
| Driver: i8042prt.sys, 7/13/2009 17:19:57, 105472 bytes
| Driver: kbdclass.sys, 7/13/2009 19:48:04, 50768 bytes
|
+ PS/2 Compatible Mouse
| Matching Device ID: *pnp0f13
| Service: i8042prt
| Driver: i8042prt.sys, 7/13/2009 17:19:57, 105472 bytes
| Driver: mouclass.sys, 7/13/2009 19:48:27, 49216 bytes
|
+ HID-compliant mouse
| Matching Device ID: hid_device_system_mouse
| Service: mouhid
| Driver: mouhid.sys, 7/13/2009 18:00:20, 31232 bytes
| Driver: mouclass.sys, 7/13/2009 19:48:27, 49216 bytes
|
+ Terminal Server Mouse Driver
| Matching Device ID: root\rdp_mou
| Upper Filters: mouclass
| Service: TermDD
| Driver: termdd.sys, 7/13/2009 19:45:55, 62544 bytes
| Driver: sermouse.sys, 7/13/2009 18:00:20, 26624 bytes
| Driver: mouclass.sys, 7/13/2009 19:48:27, 49216 bytes
------------------------
Disk & DVD/CD-ROM Drives
------------------------
Drive: C:
Free Space: 112.6 GB
Total Space: 152.6 GB
File System: NTFS
Model: WDC WD1600AAJB-00PVA0 ATA Device
Drive: E:
Free Space: 419.9 GB
Total Space: 476.9 GB
File System: NTFS
Model: GRAID SCSI Disk Device
Drive: F:
Model: WHEHSX K52VWXIBSL SCSI CdRom Device
Driver: c:\windows\system32\drivers\cdrom.sys, 6.01.7600.16385 (English), 7/13/2009 17:19:54, 147456 bytes
Drive: D:
Model: HL-DT-ST DVD-RAM GSA-H54N ATA Device
Driver: c:\windows\system32\drivers\cdrom.sys, 6.01.7600.16385 (English), 7/13/2009 17:19:54, 147456 bytes
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I think this is due to a refresh rate set in the Nvidia settings that is not actually supported by your monitor but looking at your dxdiag it looks like thats not the case. So I suspect its probably due to onboard sound which is never a good thing.
EDIT: How old is your PSU?
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I am no tech (goes without saying :old: ) but I have Nvidia card and onboard sound. Important for me to turn Vertical Sync OFF.
I get stutters associated with any keyboard keystrokes, and clipboard manipulation if I turn the V sync on. If yours is on maybe try it off and see if this helps. In the meantime, drop hints for b'day gift: sound card like me :lol
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The 8400GS is a pretty low end card. It is also an older card. Maybe try an earlier driver.
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Not absolutely positive but I experienced similar issues at one point and it ended up being related to the sound card hardware acceleration and conflicts between the video and sound card drivers. If that sound card driver you're using is from Realtek you might want to try removing it and using the Win7 built in driver...and drop the hardware acceleration down 1 or 2 notches. If you're using custom sounds, get rid of them.
And absolutely do what Skuzzy recommended.
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Thanks:
PSU is a 1 year old Rosewill 450W. I got it on a big sale, afterwards I started thinking maybe it doesn't put out enough. Could this problem be caused by an insufficient wattage? Its powering a full size mobo, 4 core processer, 4 sticks of RAM, DVD-RW, 3 x 7,200 rpms HDDs, the 8400 vid card and 3 x 120mm fans. I plug this all in Neweggs PSU calculator and it recommends 421 watts. So my PSU is definitely borderline. Thinking of stepping up to a 650W unit. I do have Speedfan which monitors voltage, is there a way to look for problems with that? Electricity is like magic to me, I don't understand it at all.
Vertical Sync is on, always has been.
I don't know anything about onboard sound messing up video, is there any way to check for that? A sound card seems pointless to me, the onboard sound works fine.
Will try an older driver for this card. I would like to upgrade from this card anyway (with new PSU too of course). I'm just wondering if this is related to something other then the card, because I don't wanna upgrade and still find myself stuck with this issue.
EDIT: Vsync is on, I had it backwards in my head.
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A Rosewill 450 on a quad core mobo with all that other stuff hooked up? :O My P-4 has a 450 in it and that was just above minimal for it.
Start with replacing that PSU...no less than the specs on this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153082 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153082)
For your sound card settings, I remember Skuzzy saying something previously about Win7 not using hardware acceleration or something along those lines...so I stand corrected on that..
However you can look under control panel > hardware and software > sound > manage audio devices
Find the audio card and go to properties...under the advanced tab make sure you have both boxes checked under exclusive mode.
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I'm running same vid card and I use the 196.21 drivers for it. No issues yet, maybe try to drop down to that version and see what happens. On a side note, I thought V sync was supposed to be ON or you get the "rubber bullets".....Skuzzy? :headscratch:
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I'm running same vid card and I use the 196.21 drivers for it. No issues yet, maybe try to drop down to that version and see what happens. On a side note, I thought V sync was supposed to be ON or you get the "rubber bullets".....Skuzzy? :headscratch:
Correction, I thought it was off because the box was unchecked, box says disable vsync. So yes I have vsync on. I'll try those older drivers.
A Rosewill 450 on a quad core mobo with all that other stuff hooked up? WHOA! My P-4 has a 450 in it and that was just above minimal for it.
Start with replacing that PSU...no less than the specs on this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153082
See this is why electricity is magic to me. The Newegg calculator says 421W so I think "Eeh, I'm borderline". I just googled and found this one http://extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine which seems a lot more detailed and it says I only need 281W, so I think "Whew, I've got plenty". Then gyrene81 says I don't have near enough and need 700W so I think "Crap, I'm wrecking my system."
I'M SO CONFUSED!! :headscratch: :headscratch:
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LOL...I used to be that way myself...you have to look at the 12v legs...not total wattage available. I use the Thermaltake PSU calculator and take whatever it shows as the bare minimum just to sit idle...not including the startup requirements. For your system it calculates 417w and that would be bare minimum...but then, it doesn't take into account that you may not be putting enough amps out on the 12v rail...and does that PSU rate at least 80% efficiency...etc...etc...etc. ..
Believe me, if you're planning on putting a better video card in that system...that PSU link I posted is the minimum...look at the AMP output on the 12v rails...then go look at the requirements for a 250GT, 260GT or 290GT...I found out the hard way.
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Your Rosewill is a 16A PSU and your 8400 GS can hit 18A so guess what? I would suggest going overboard on the PSU if you plan on upgrading your GPU later but really you should do both now.
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OK, so I'm gathering that this is most likely a weak PS issue then. IE When I push my PC a bit the PSU can't handle it and the first thing that crashes is the vid card.
It makes sense to me because I've also found the freeze ups to be more common when I'm doing serious pixel mangling in Photoshop. Which doesn't take much from the vid card, but will pretty much max out the processors. So perhaps in that case the processor is using the power that the vid card needs just to idle. And in AH where the vid card is maxxed out it is just starving for power. Again I have very little understanding of electricity, but in my simpleton mind this makes sense. Anybody disagree?
Guess that's what I get for picking up a bargain bin PSU. :rolleyes:
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I'm running same vid card and I use the 196.21 drivers for it. No issues yet, maybe try to drop down to that version and see what happens. On a side note, I thought V sync was supposed to be ON or you get the "rubber bullets".....Skuzzy? :headscratch:
Well, I don't know if the trade off for others is worth it, but with my low end stuff and onboard sound, the game becomes a slide show at the very lowest settings if I don't disable it. I can play with it on, but as soon as I look at the clipboard or hit any key on my keyboard, stutters / slide show begins. Put the clipboard away and hide my keyboard from .... itchy fingers and back to almost normal. Then only occasional stutters, like the machine is refreshing or something periodically. On top of that, no noticeble difference for me on hits. The only difference on hits, that I ever experience is when I turn the graphic detail sliders to the left even the slightest, :headscratch: and if I forget and leave it in Ground Vis Mode. I will waste a whole box of ammo, see hit sprites and barely do any damage to enemy. So, I believe that Skuzzy, has it right for most machines, I just never seem to be able to do anything normal. :uhoh
Saggs,
Before you throw it all away just yet. Try and disable VSync, turn your graphic sliders to the right for performance, turn antialias to none. Do this just for testing...... Let us know if you still see problems. I am not disagreeing with the others here, just saying that you might be able to dial back the demands on your system and achieve a more playable alternative until you upgrade or whatever.
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Saggs, I don't think its a "bargain bin" PSU thats the problem. Its the fact the PSU is undersized is all. Like puttin a V6 in a truck and try to pull 4 tons of crap vs. a V8 in the same truck and pullin the same 4 tons of crap. They both get it done, but the V6 is overworked and under powered to be efficient. If your runnin a 450w PSU, dump it and get a good 650w. I got mine from Best Buy a few bucks more than I would have online. Think I paid like $100 for a Corsair TX650W. Got plenty of amps on the 12v rail to handle any upgrade I can afford to do. Its worth the money to go with a little "overkill" if you will, on the power side of your machine. I'm sure many would agree.
:huh Chili, man you gots some issues with your machine bro. :confused: I thought mine was bottom of the sump, but, sheesh!
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Of course I dont skimp on the PSU myself. Silent clean and efficient PSUs are certainly the best way to go! :aok
I use two of these in my current system and it is a very quiet system even with eight case fans and two video cards etc.
(http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/Chalenge08/PSU.jpg)
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One thing to keep in mind is that the 'bargain bin' power supplies tend to fudge their wattage numbers a bit. Sure it's capable of putting out 450 watts, but only for short periods of time.
The 'better quality', more expensive reliable brands tend to advertise what their supplies can consistently output. Those 450 watt power supplies might actually max out at 525, but can safely output 450 all day long (for example).
With that being said, the price difference between a 700watt and a 500watt power supply (for a quality brand) isn't that much different in the whole scheme of things, so personally I would probably have picked a 700, even if the calculators said I only needed 412. (Also for future expansion, USB, track-IR, etc... purposes).
And then there's the 12v rail amperage thing, but you'll find that most 'better' supplies will be fine for that sort of thing, just check and make sure.
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Of course something else to bear in mind is your UPS which may be adequate for your current PSU but not so hot for anything bigger. Just check things out closely and make sure you wont tax (forgive me using that word at this time of year) your batteries too much. You DO want a UPS to protect your investment and you DO want a 80 Plus Gold certified PSU so it provides clean and adequate juice to all your devices. Everything down the chain lives longer happier lives that way. :aok
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Switching power supplies will output clean power up to around 80% of thier rated capacity. After that, they start putting out 'dirty' power. A 450W power supply will do fine up to a 360W load. After that, all bets are off.
Of course, that also assumes the power supply is properly rated. Budget power supplies are rarely rated properly.
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Now see I thought that 80 rating was because when the PSU delivers 86W (hypothetical wattage but the actual test result of the Seasonic X750 Gold) it is using 100W. In the case of 80 Silver the PSU is closer to 80 than that and in the case of 80 Bronze it might even be slightly below 80? Anyway when I went to buy the Seasonic was the only unit that I saw that had the gold rating and none of the PC Power & Cooling PSUs (available) were even rated!
Buyer beware I guess... so be sure to check out the reviews on sites like pcstats.com and avoid buying a boat anchor (I have a few).
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You guys are great. :aok
I posted this issue on a tech support forum a while back, and nobody there even mentioned it could be the PSU. They just threw a bunch of stuff at me about event logs, and HDD diagnosis and a whole lotta stuff that went way over my head, and I got confused and gave up. Ya'll here are much more idiot friendly. :D
I posted over in Hardware and software about helping me pick a PSU, if you have any feedback there I appreciate it.
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We have a lot more idiots! Myself included :)
We try to help, folks learn, then when they can they pass it on to the next guy. It's a "not-so-vicious-cycle" we got going here ;)
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You guys are great. :aok
I posted this issue on a tech support forum a while back, and nobody there even mentioned it could be the PSU. They just threw a bunch of stuff at me about event logs, and HDD diagnosis and a whole lotta stuff that went way over my head, and I got confused and gave up. Ya'll here are much more idiot friendly. :D
I posted over in Hardware and software about helping me pick a PSU, if you have any feedback there I appreciate it.
Although I didnīt post here, a :salute to you Sir. and to all who came to help.
Many guys ask for help here, someone else suggests a solution and the first guy doesn't answer...
It's good to know the results, did it work? Was an alternate solution applied?
All of us profit from the feddback.
Good luck!
Mutley
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I should point out that while I posted specifically about pcstats.com it is by no means my primary site. Unfortunately my favorite site which is hardwaresecrets.com can be hard to get to (my browsers sometimes cannot access it for some reason) and a lot of the older reviews have missing pages or images. I dont think pcstats.com does testing with enough depth but it and other sites will often have images that include details Im trying to see.
I like to see reviews that have complete tests of the PSU under 25% 50% and 100% load as well as noise and ripple levels but sometimes thats hard to come by.
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Well my new PSU came today ended up getting a 700W Cooler Master that got good reviews where ever I looked, I installed it this afternoon along with a spiffy little SSD for my new primary drive. Installed Windows 7, installed Lightroom and CS4, installed AH, downloaded and installed Kaspersky anti virus, and Firefox, all with no issues.
Then I played AH for about 2 hrs with no issues. So I though great, all is well. :D
Then just a few minutes ago I click to open Lightroom... freezes... black screen... Nvidia driver failure. :furious :mad: :furious :mad:
I don't regret the new PSU, I'm sure I needed it. But obviously I have another issue as well. Is it possible I just have a craptastic video card??
I should add that I haven't downloaded the latest Nvidia drivers yet, so it's on whatever older driver that Win 7 stuck it on. I don't think newer drivers will make a difference though, I tried 3 different drivers before and experienced the same failures with them all.
EDIT: one thing I just though of, could it be motherboard related? My mobo is still under warranty for several years, but I wouldn't even know where to begin to see if it has any problems.
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I like to see reviews that have complete tests of the PSU under 25% 50% and 100% load as well as noise and ripple levels but sometimes thats hard to come by.
Yeah I found some reviews that had all of that on the PSU I ended up getting, but it all went way over my head, so I just skipped ahead to the conclusions, which were positive.
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Well Skuzzy already told you about the 8400 (pretty much bottom of the stack) but I dont see what there is to lightroom that would cause an issue. Have you run a memory test?
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Well Skuzzy already told you about the 8400 (pretty much bottom of the stack) but I dont see what there is to lightroom that would cause an issue. Have you run a memory test?
Yes, I had a system before that was crashing due to memory failure, so the first thing I did was run memtest86+. Ran it twice and got 0 errors.
Also on the recommendation of another forum I ran Western Digital's own diagnostic software on my HDDs and got 0 errors.
Yeah Lightroom is not a very graphics intense program so I don't get it, I ran AH for over 2 hrs with no problem and it's much more graphic intense then LR. But that seems to be whats doing it now, since my last post I've opened and close LR 10 times just to check, and had the Nvidia driver failure on opening once more.
I'm baffled now, but so far I've tested or replaced the following.
PSU is brand new, with plenty of amperage
RAM tested good with memtest86+
Primary drive is brand new SSD, and other 2 HHDs tested good with the manufacturers software.
All programs are fresh installed.
But if it's the vid card that's bad, how come it's failing when I open a program, and not when doing graphically intense stuff? :headscratch:
I think I'm gonna say screw Nvidia and get an ATI card. Maybe their drivers don't fail just because they feel like it.
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check to see if you had the drivers that were recalled a couple of weeks. ago. iI had to reinstall win7 to make it work. havent had a problem since then.
semp
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check to see if you had the drivers that were recalled a couple of weeks. ago. iI had to reinstall win7 to make it work. havent had a problem since then.
semp
Yes , sometime ago Skuzzy issued a warning about Nvidia !96.75 drivers:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,284786.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,284786.0.html)
Mutley