Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: R4M on April 11, 2001, 06:04:00 PM
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Heya.
Well, the Fw190 was a plane with an engine installed in a way so the airframe flew with a continuous attitude of -5º. The net effect of this was that the plane had a superb frontal view, thanks to the increase of the slope of the cowling pannels.
In Aces High's 190 cockpit this effect is not modelled; and frankly is a bit annoying to know that I cannot track a con properly because I lack the over-the-nose visibility those 5º gave the 190.
Please can be this fixed?. Thanks.
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Originally posted by R4M:
and frankly is a bit annoying to know
A bit annoying? I think this is a very serious bug. This has been notified several times on the BBS with no response.
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Just thought I'd mention that this would only make a difference in level flight. Otherwise it really doesn't matter, especially in a turn.
At 24K+ Spitfires(early models) rode so nose high you couldn't see in front of you. This only mattered in level flight.
-SW
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Should be the guns oriented upwards +5 degrees? Or they were pointing down in level flight?
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"Serious bug"? I don't think so. A serious bug would be one that prevents someone from playing the game. It's more like a minor nitpick IMHO.
-Smut
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What he means is that the plane flew with a noticeable nose-down attitude. I think 5 degrees is too much though.
Most of the vision problem is due to the low position of the pilot and the gunsight with respect to the cowl.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-11-2001).]
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I agree funked, this would help with some of the deflection shots which as of right now are close your eyes and fire and hope they hit something. Put Jerry up a notch and then I will be happy.
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Sturm6 StaffelKapitän
JV44 Platzschutzstaffel
Airfield Defense Squadron
Campaigning for the rights of the ME-410.
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hte fw-19 owas designed with the pilot low sitinmg specificaly to proytect him in headon shots, better to hti the engine than the ppilto
excusie ime in typiong drinkd
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Well it would be nice to put him up a notch, but I'm not sure the position of the gunsight is inaccurate in AH. The manual for the Fw 190A-8 (which HTC undoubtedly have) shows all the relevant dimensions.
I think the real question is whether the plane's angle of attack in level flight is correct. And I don't know of any easy way to check it accurately.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-12-2001).]
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hte fw-19 owas designed with the pilot low sitinmg specificaly to proytect him in headon shots, better to hti the engine than the ppilto
excusie ime in typiong drinkd
ROFL!!!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Wow Ziggy had a fun night out didn't he (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Sighting view
27. The sighting view, when sitting comfortably in the normal position, is about a half ring better than the Spitfire. The view downwards from the centre of the sight graticule to the edge of the reflector plate holder, is about 5 degrees. This view is not obtained by elevating the guns(and consequently the sight)relative to the line of flight, but is entirely due to the attitude of the aircraft in flight, which is nose down. In terms of deflection allowance the view downwards is 160mph and this allows the pilot to sight and fire at angles of attack as follows:
Target Speed AoA
200mph --- 60º
300mph --- 40º
400mph --- 25º
I think that is from the RAE report on the Fw 190A-3. It's on this page (http://www.geocities.com/spades53.geo/prodocs.htm) somewhere.
As for the in-game issue - from the default view position I can't even see the Fw 190A-5's cowling at all, so WTF is RAM talking about there...?
[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 04-12-2001).]
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Oooh Numbers!
Juzz is my hero!!!
I have no idea how to interpret those, but maybe HTC can use it to check the geometry of the plane and the attitude when trimmed for level flight.
PS Juzz the only reason you can't see the cowl on the A-5 is the visor over the instrument panel.
PPS Here's a scan of the original document: http://www.geocities.com/spades53.geo/pro_190_survey_a_1.jpg (http://www.geocities.com/spades53.geo/pro_190_survey_a_1.jpg)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-12-2001).]
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Originally posted by R4M:
Heya.
Well, the Fw190 was a plane with an engine installed in a way so the airframe flew with a continuous attitude of -5º.
It sounds like you want 5 more degrees of over-the-nose view. The view sure could be improved - but: While you might actually see -5 degree nose down attitude in level cruise at low alitudes, your view over the nose would eventually reach and pass zero degrees while maintaining level flight at ever increasing altitudes. You also wouldn't see a nose down view during slow speed flight or at high angles of attack especially with a long nose 190D. Are you saying that the engine was drooped down five degrees from the longitudinal axis or was the wing chord line angled 5 degrees from the longitudinal axis?
MiG
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In general, I find that all the planes in AH appear to fly with a very high nose-up attitude in level flight.
Is there a way to calculate AoA for level flights at specific speeds? (or numbers that shows it anywhere)..that way it should be easy to reference it to the angle of incidence and figure out if it's right or not.
Daff
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CO, 56th Fighter Group
www.56thfightergroup.org (http://www.56thfightergroup.org)
This is Yardstick, follow me"
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Anyway, I think AH has it right. For them to stuff this up would require making the Fw 190A 3d model incorrect in a noticeable way. Eg: either the nose would have an incorrect profile, or the wings would be mounted with incorrect angle of incidence.
Yep - according to my measurement, from the default pilot head position the angle from the centre of the gunsight to the top of the reflector is 4.93º(assuming the default FOV in AH is 90º). (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 04-12-2001).]
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Originally posted by juzz:
Yep - according to my measurement, from the default pilot head position the angle from the centre of the gunsight to the top of the reflector is 4.93º(assuming the default FOV in AH is 90º). (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Err... umm shouldn't you measure the AoA relative to the centre of the gunsight and the horizon? And if the planes were flying with a large enough nose down attitude, shouldn't it be visible in the artificial horizon? Of course I'm assuming here that the pilot's view through the gunsight is a straight line parallel to the plane's fuselage and I really don't know if it is so.
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SageFIN
"I think I´ll believe in Gosh instead of God. If you don´t
believe in Gosh too, you´ll be darned to heck."
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The angle I measured is the same angle detailed in the RAE report, and it matches their figure exactly.
As for nose down angles, I don't see how it could ever be 5º, unless the wing is mounted with about +4º incidence...