Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: saggs on April 19, 2010, 03:43:46 PM
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OK, thanks to the wonderful help I got in the tech support forum, I've figured out that I'm having issues probably due to and inadequate power supply. So I'm shopping for a new PSU, I want at minimum 650W, and one that will last.
Here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010090058%20113142557%2050001516&bop=And&ShowDeactivatedMark=False&CompareItemList=58|17-207-002^17-207-002-TS%2C17-171-037^17-171-037-S01%2C17-371-021^17-371-021-TS) are 3 I found shopping Newegg that seem to fit the bill as far as budget, power and a 5 year warranty.
Electricity is like voodoo magic to me though, I really don't get it. So I'd appreciate any feedback on these units as they apply to my purpose.
It needs to power:
3- 120mm case fans.
Full size mobo
Intel Quad Core 2.33Ghz Q8200 processor
3- 72,000 HDDS, 1 for OS and programs, 2 in a RAID mirrored for data (will probably replace the OS drive with a SSD soon though, I'd imagine they pull less power.)
4- sticks DDR2 RAM
1- DVD/RW drive
Nvidia 8400GS vid card, (would like to upgrade to something better, 9800, 4850 sometime as well)
Like I said all have a 5 yr warranty, and all have the right number of SATA connections, I'm leaning toward the Antec as it says "continuous power" I'm assuming this means it can put out a constant 650W, not just peak, and reviews said it is very quiet which I like.
Questions??
What exactly does the 80 plus (bronze, silver, gold) certification mean,is this just about how efficient they are?
One thing I'm confused on is single rail vs. 4 rail, does it matter?
All are modular, I'm hoping that this means I'll have less unnecessary cable clutter, or do modular PSUs still get cluttered?
Is 650W enough, assuming I upgrade my vid card?
Feel free to make other recommendations if you have any as well. I just looked for 600-700W units with 80 plus certification, at least 4 SATA connections, and 5 year warranties under $100. I'm sure there are others out there I missed.
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If you are considering an NVidia 9800 series video card, I would lean towards a 750W supply (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151087).
Antec used to make high quality supplies but they went to crap when they outsourced it all to some Chinese sweat shop. About 30+ other manufacturers do the same. Not all are bad.
Enermax and Seasonic are two of the very few companies who actually manufacture power supplies. Seasonic makes a bunch of supplies for other companies as well. PC Power & Cooling used to make a very high quality supply, but they got shutdown by OCZ. Damn shame.
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The 80 plus certification is kind of a marketing thing...
What is the 80 PLUS specification?
The 80 PLUS performance specification requires multi-output power supplies in computers and servers to be 80% or greater energy efficient at 20%, 50% and 100% of rated load with a true power factor of 0.9 or greater. This makes an 80 PLUS certified power supply substantially more efficient than typical power supplies and creates a unique market differentiation opportunity for power supply and computer manufacturers.
This is the list of PSU manufacturers that have 80 plus units
http://www.80plus.org/manu/psu/psu_join.aspx (http://www.80plus.org/manu/psu/psu_join.aspx)
Doesn't mean they are all "quality" PSU's...
Antec makes a good PSU...just be sure to look at how many 12v legs it has and what the amp ratings are on those since many mid/upper end video cards are looking for specific amp output.
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http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341017
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None of these power supplies actually hit above 80% efficiency on 110V but they do at 230V. The problem is heat generation and noise which is why I went to Seasonic. The one PSU of the three you posted that I absolutely WOULD NOT buy is that Antec. Not only is it the least efficient (76%) but it is more of a heat generator than even two Geforce 295s! On a bottom loader (PSU at the bottom of the case) thats an even bigger problem.
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OK, after Skuzzy's response I'm looking more at 750W now. I figure it's more "upgrade proof" that way.
The one thing that still confuses me is this. Some have 4- 12v rails, with each rated at 20-25 amps, and others have just a single rail, and most of them don't seem to list the single rail amp ratings.
Is there any advantage to the multiple 12v rails? Is it better to have 4 devices on a single rail, or 4 separate rails? Seems to me like that would just be more cables in the way.
Just to make sure I understand correctly the 12V is what powers things like HDDs and DVD drives, in other words they will be my SATA power connections, correct? Are the PCI power plugs 12V too? And what do those 3.3V and 5V lines power?
Sorry to be so dense, but I like to understand how stuff works, I've been trying to find someplace online (like how-stuff-works.com) where I can learn all this, but everything I find is either way to simplistic or way out dated. Anybody know of I site (preferably with pictures, I'm a visual learner type) where I can read up and learn all this for myself?
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Actually it is better to have a single 12V rail. Granted that won't be entirely true if there aren't enough Amps on the single 12V rail. The PSU Skuzzy posted is a solid model with 62A(744W I think?) on a single 12V Rail. That should be more then sufficient for an 9800GT, but it is always nice to have overhead.
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If your thinking of future Vid upgrade. Id suggest a PSU with atleast 65 amps on a single 12v rail, or 4 rails 25 amps each.
not sure about ATIs higher end cards byNvidia cards like my gtx 285 require 42amps to run. so 60 or less amps on the 12v
rails leave little for CPU n other stuff to use.
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OK, after Skuzzy's response I'm looking more at 750W now.
I already told you what I think in Tech Support AND where to read up to get more information. The PSU Skuzzy pointed to is the very PSU I have in all my machines (except one which still has a Kingwin Mach1) including the system that has two PSUs for quad sli.
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Here's my recommendation:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139012&Tpk=hx650w (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139012&Tpk=hx650w)
It's a great product.. looks like a great price. hardwaresecrets.com tested the 620watt (HX620W) version and found out that it is actually a Seasonic! I would have to assume that this one is the same, but I suppose I could be wrong.
I know it's only 650watt, but it powers my C2D, 9800GTX, a few extra fans, my TrackIR, Saitek Rudder pedals, two hard drives, Hard drive cooler, dvd burner, wireless network card, and keyboard/mouse just fine. (My X52 and USB headphones get power through a powered usb hub).
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Its built by Seasonic but not tested to the same level as their 'X' line. Still it will have the Japanese capacitors and Seasonic design which is a large part of the battle.
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I just bought a corsair 750w psu and its great. quiet and haven't had any problems so far.
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This is my recommendation, same price as the ones you were considering, and the same one I have in my machine. Single 60A 12v rail, built like a tank, and absolutely silent. It just has an all around solid quality to it and I believe it will outlive any other components, corsair makes good PSU's. Also has very long cables that will fit any tower as far as I'm concerned, I have slack left in my full tower antec1200. Also has 4 of PCI-E 6+2 connectors to handle any video card you have.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006)
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Corsair does not make power supplies. They repackage power supplies. The only difference between them and Thermaltake and a couple others is the color of the paint on the power supply box.
That is not to say they are bad, but do not make the mistake of thinking Corsair actually builds their power supplies. Their quality is as good as the company that actually makes the supply in China.
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Its built by Seasonic but not tested to the same level as their 'X' line. Still it will have the Japanese capacitors and Seasonic design which is a large part of the battle.
Well Japanese capacitors have to at least be better than Chinese capacitors! :D
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Japanese capacitors are the best you can buy and if I have the choice between Japanese capacitors or Chinese on any device (PSU Video Sound Motherboard whatever) I will go with the Japanese capacitor one.
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Corsair does not make power supplies. They repackage power supplies. The only difference between them and Thermaltake and a couple others is the color of the paint on the power supply box.
That is not to say they are bad, but do not make the mistake of thinking Corsair actually builds their power supplies. Their quality is as good as the company that actually makes the supply in China.
Correct.
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yea I suppose I should have said they "market" good PSUs, the review on hardwaresecrets.com tears the PSU open to find that it is actually built very rugged with quality components, but is in fact a chinese product. :joystick:
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A Chinese product from another company not owned by Corsair. The high end Corsair power supplies are mostly made by Seasonic. Thermaltake also resells the same exact power supply, only in a different color.
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I wouldn't worry about brand, or what kind of rails PSU uses, or use any other "rules of thumb" for that matter. I'd look at reviews of actual power supply units, find one that is well thought of, and then buy that exact model.
The same brand many times has power supplies from multiple manufacturers, so brand is no indication of quality. Looking at how the rails are designed was good when less was known about how the power supplies actually performed, but now-a-days, many review sites have come up with testing methods that show how they actually perform under stress, and that's whats important. There are multiple threads linking to these sites on the first page of this H&S forum.
If you want my recommendation, HardOCP has always done a high quality review of power supplies, and they today released a buying guide that answers your question: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/04/27/gtx_480_470_power_supply_unit_buying_guide (http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/04/27/gtx_480_470_power_supply_unit_buying_guide) . I recommend you start there, find a model that looks promising, google it for other reviews from other sites, and if it still looks good, go buy it.
Edit: making my link into a link.