Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Serenity on April 25, 2010, 03:59:14 PM
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No this is not a flame thread, but a question for the community. I currently have two (2) full ROTC scholarships on the table. Same college, same degree, same ROTC detachment. One is for the United States Navy, the other for the United States Marine Corps. Basically, all it comes down to now is deciding whether I want to join the Navy or the Corps.
What I want out of the service is simple, I want to fly. I have my pilot's license, powered AND glider. My grades are NOT the top of my class in high school, admittedly, but I put that down to having beyond over extended myself as far as school, work, CAP, etc. I expect to do much better grade wise in college. As far as physical fitness, I am nowhere NEAR overweight, and while my PT scores can improve, again, all I need is time to actually work out during the week to do that. While I could handle USMC PT requirements, admittedly, the Navy expectations are closer to where I'm at.
So, what I am looking for are opinions, preferably from service personnel who have been there. So, anything folks?
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It really doesn't matter what other say or think, It's your decision on what path you follow, there both great branches of the service but what do YOU want deep down inside? People will tell you the pros and cons, but it really boils down to what you want :salute
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marines is a department of navy,so either way your going navy
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I don't have an answer, but...
It really doesn't matter what other say or think, It's your decision on what path you follow, there both great branches of the service but what do YOU want deep down inside? People will tell you the pros and cons, but it really boils down to what you want :salute
What I want out of the service is simple, I want to fly.
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Rey,
I'll tell you that either are fine choices--you'll be on the cusp of the adventure of your life, regardless of which you pick. I was a NROTC graduate, so I've got a lot of Navy and Marine Corps friends and pilots. I spent a good deal of time around Marine aviation, and have some exposure to Navy aviation as well. I actually have more CH-46 squadron experience than I did with air support squadrons. Anyway, I'm certainly biased, but have an appreciation for being "haze gray and underway".
Go Marine Corps, join the fraternity, and you'll never regret it. The MOI (Marine Officer Instructor) and (more importantly) the AMOI (assistant MOI, usually a SSgt or GySgt) will get you into the mental and physical shape you'll need to be in to graduate and succeed at Officer Candidate School. Plus, you can get an air guarantee as a freshman (or at least you used to be able to). Either way, you're wearing Wings of Gold, but better to have them along-side an Eagle, Globe, and Anchor.
You'll wind up on a boat regardless, but as a Marine Aviator, you won't be in support of the Fleet, you'll be in support of your fellow Marine. Sounds cliche' I know, but you will learn that it is a tangible, tactile thing that you'll never forget, take for granted, or find anywhere else.
Semper,
Stoney
Formerly, Captain, USMC
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Dont let physical fitness be in your decision, you can ALWAYS improve on that. Im pretty sure its easier to get into the pilot program in the Navy(dont quote me) but the Marines definately have alot higher espirit de corps amongst them.
Question: How tall are you?
I went out on a Nimitz class carrier about 3 years ago for about a 15 hour trip.....turned me completely away from the Navy because I hit my head about 5 times in those 15 hours on the small bulkheads. Granted.....Im 6'3"...
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Either way, you're wearing Wings of Gold, but better to have them along-side an Eagle, Globe, and Anchor.
Semper,
Stoney
Formerly, Captain, USMC
Orah! :salute
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If your looking for the educational oppritunity, then the Navy is the right place to be. It does also give you a good chance at becoming a pilot, but, the Marine Corps has a slight advantage in getting you into aviation then does the Navy. I mean even for me I have a good chance at becoming a pilot as an enlistee just I have to play my cards right to get to be a WO and get it that way.
I would do some reasearch, talk to both the Marine Corps ROTC instructors and the Navy ROTC instructors and see what insight they can give you. They're not recruiters so they will give you an honest answer. It's what you feel is best to you.
But above all your still going to serve this country either way, and that is a greater service then anything, no matter what you do.
<S>
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Even if you do earn your wings, there are always periods in a military pilot's career that have nothing at all to do with flying. You should probably pick your service with an eye to what you would prefer to do when you are NOT flying. If being a non-flying Marine is in your opinion more desirable than a non-flying Navy... uh... person, then by all means go USMC instead of USN. You need to really think about this, because of 2 things.
1. It is statistically unlikely that you will become a USN or USMC pilot. Nothing personal, but it is fiercly competitive and sometimes even great candidates don't get selected, and sometimes students wash out. Facts of life, and if you don't make it, you'll still be a military officer for at least a few years.
2. Even if you do get your wings of gold, you WILL have non-flying duties and assignments. Pick the service you want to spend time in as any other non-flying officer, because you're going to have non-flying jobs sooner or later.
Considering those two things, lots of guys who want to fly but who don't really feel like running around with a rifle and pack, and who don't want to spend a lot of time on a boat, end up going USAF :) USAF jobs only involve running around with a rifle and pack if we are either doing the Army's job (ie. augmentation per SecDef waiver of title 10 http://uscode.house.gov/download/title_10.shtml), or on a very strict voluntary basis (special forces and other elite units).
Me, I can't run very well and I have a bad back, so running around with a rifle and pack rates right up there with immolation and old-school impaling, as far as "fun things to experience" go.
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Remember who hauls who to point A so they can fly to point B. :rolleyes:
Was enlisted in Navy so I have no experience in the land of officers. Didn't have much respect for some but had great respect for others. Probally the same in all branches.
In either case, pilot or not, lead by example and those of us in the bilge will follow you to the depths of hell.
<S> Sir and thank you for your upcoming service to this nation.
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Marine Corps is the one you'll be joining.
Navy is the one I'll be joining.
Watch.
You'll see.
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Navy = a job
USMC = a career
That said, if you expect to be a Navy pilot, you best plan on majoring in engineering or physics and taking 5 years to get your degree. If you go USMC and major in anything that starts with "B.S." you can graduate in 4 years. Truth is that USN expects pilots to understand higher math to a functional degree,, while the USMC expects pilots to be only able to spell "math". The USAF expects pilots to be able to teach higher mathmatics to people like Hawking, Heisenberg, and Einstein; even if they are dead. :devil
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So, the three things that stand out here are non-flying time, chances of getting those wings, and education.
First off, non-flying time. No matter what I do, I want a combat MOS. That has nothing to do with Call of Duty, or some delusion of glory, that is just something that VERY much matters to me. So I guess the Marine Corps wins that bout.
I've heard several statements that USMC has a higher likelyhood of giving me a flight slot. Is that a safe guess? I have an appointment to talk to one of the USMC NROTC selection personnel (I don't recall his exact position) on Monday, where he will give me the breakdown of the trends as far as how many Marines going through ROTC have been getting flight slots the previous years, but I have no such source for data...
As far as education, I am an AP Calculus, AP Physics, AP English, and AP US History student, who also lead a petition to keep our AP Chemistry class, although that effort failed. I have been selected for the scholarship with a major in Aerospace Engineering, so...
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Combat MOS? I thought we were talking about you flying?
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Navy or Marine Corps? If ya have to ask, then Navy it is!
No insult intended, just the way I feel about it!
:salute Best of luck!
RC
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Go Navy and see the world. Go Marines if ya want to go to the desert and PT.
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Serenity...the Navy has some pretty high standards for their front line combat fighter/attack pilots...the selection process is something like top 10% get chosen for fighters...the rest could end up flying cargo or helos...the Marines aren't quite so picky but they don't have as many choices in what you fly either...the Marine airwing uses it's aircraft for close air support while the Navy has a variety of air superiority and ground support.
Sounds like you're looking for a career...
First off, non-flying time. No matter what I do, I want a combat MOS. That has nothing to do with Call of Duty, or some delusion of glory, that is just something that VERY much matters to me. So I guess the Marine Corps wins that bout.
Do not forget the squids have the SEALs...and the officers go through the exact same training elbow to elbow with the enlisted...even us Marines have a lot of respect for SEALs.
I've heard several statements that USMC has a higher likelyhood of giving me a flight slot. Is that a safe guess? I have an appointment to talk to one of the USMC NROTC selection personnel (I don't recall his exact position) on Monday, where he will give me the breakdown of the trends as far as how many Marines going through ROTC have been getting flight slots the previous years, but I have no such source for data.
As far as education, I am an AP Calculus, AP Physics, AP English, and AP US History student, who also lead a petition to keep our AP Chemistry class, although that effort failed. I have been selected for the scholarship with a major in Aerospace Engineering, so...
If you can get in to speak with officers who are pilots...those are the guys you want to see...they will be the ones to give you the straight poop on what to do. Either way, if you really want to improve your chances for fighters...even though I was a jarhead I have to say...Annapolis is the ticket...everything else is a crapshoot.
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If your only concern is being able to fly then the choice is Navy. (The Marines call themselves 'The Few' for a reason) In a numbers game there are more aircraft that have USN on the side than USMC.
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you always to go with what YOU think is best. The Navy will set up you for success with the training. :salute
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I've heard several statements that USMC has a higher likelyhood of giving me a flight slot. Is that a safe guess? I have an appointment to talk to one of the USMC NROTC selection personnel (I don't recall his exact position) on Monday, where he will give me the breakdown of the trends as far as how many Marines going through ROTC have been getting flight slots the previous years, but I have no such source for data...
I have heard a lot about 'flying slots' from my fellow USAF pilots. It seems that this is a carrot dangled in front of ROTC students. Most reasons for someone losing their slot had less to do with academics and more to do with discipline. As a 90 day wonder with zero flying time, I always felt a bit guilty hearing their stories.
I graduated with an engineering degree and received several unsolicited letters from the Navy trying to recruit me as a nuclear engineer. Don't be surprised if the Navy tries to steer you in this direction.
Not a flame, but have you considered the Air Force?
Are you set on fixed wing?
Have you applied for an Academy?
I'm trying to recall why people wash out...
Have you passed the physical?
Have you taken any tests? ROTC may be different, but I had to take a series of general tests - AFOQT.
Are you color blind? Have you ever lost consciousness? No and no are the right answers.
Any back or neck injuries that might preclude an ejection seat?
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I have heard a lot about 'flying slots' from my fellow USAF pilots. It seems that this is a carrot dangled in front of ROTC students. Most reasons for someone losing their slot had less to do with academics and more to do with discipline. As a 90 day wonder with zero flying time, I always felt a bit guilty hearing their stories.
I graduated with an engineering degree and received several unsolicited letters from the Navy trying to recruit me as a nuclear engineer. Don't be surprised if the Navy tries to steer you in this direction.
Not a flame, but have you considered the Air Force?
Are you set on fixed wing?
Have you applied for an Academy?
I'm trying to recall why people wash out...
Have you passed the physical?
Have you taken any tests? ROTC may be different, but I had to take a series of general tests - AFOQT.
Are you color blind? Have you ever lost consciousness? No and no are the right answers.
Any back or neck injuries that might preclude an ejection seat?
Considered Air Force, was raised Air Force, dealt with USAF for years through CAP, not for me.
The Navy has CONSTANTLY tried to steer me toward Nuclear Engineering. Especially at the Academy.
I was a candidate at Annaplois, attended Summer Seminar, spoke with several former students and staffers, and opted not to go, although I may rethink that decision.
I'm not set on fixed wing, but if I flew helo, I would want an attack helicopter.
Passed the physical. Several times, through DODMERB and just this last weekend through MEPS.
Only test so far is the ASVAB. 97.
Not color blind, 20/15 vision.
No injuries whatsoever.
I've tried tracking down pilots, but there is not a strong Marine/Navy air presence around here, (Though USAF abounds). The only two Navy pilots I have talked to both said, NOT to take the Academy route, one went through the Academy and became a pilot. The other went through, got brow-beat into Nuclear Engineering, and somehow found a way to get back on track in aviation.
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As a former NROTC graduate and BS of Aerospace Engineering, I definitely had flying at the top of my list when i first entered ROTC. The earlier post about how often you actually "fly" is a great point to consider, however. Ultimately, I choose the Marine Corps and while I didn't get a pilot slot it was the best decision of my life. You'll spend far more time in service out of the cockpit than it, so choose which branch you want based on the 95% of the time you'll be doing something other than flying.
One thing to note. Marine aviators all go through The Basic School to learn basic infantry/small unit tactics. If you're not into getting a little dirty for about 6 months you should consider that. In the end, Marines feel much better about having close air support from a Marine aviator than any other branch because we know you at least have a basic understanding of ground tactics.
Also be aware that in the Marine Corps you will typically have one duty assignment with an air wing followed by another with a ground unit as a forward air controller or some other air liaison function.
Either way you cant loose. Best of luck to you!
Jaxx
Captain, USMC (former)
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Considered Air Force, was raised Air Force, dealt with USAF for years through CAP, not for me.
I've tried tracking down pilots, but there is not a strong Marine/Navy air presence around here, (Though USAF abounds). The only two Navy pilots I have talked to both said, NOT to take the Academy route, one went through the Academy and became a pilot. The other went through, got brow-beat into Nuclear Engineering, and somehow found a way to get back on track in aviation.
My dad was in the Navy, which is why I went Air Force. Interesting.
USAFA grads had an easier time getting into pilot training. I am curious as to why the Annapolis grad would recommend against it. Military discipline throughout college has to suck. But it is a first rate education. As a flier, you will have a service commitment, anyways.
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My dad was in the Navy, which is why I went Air Force. Interesting.
USAFA grads had an easier time getting into pilot training. I am curious as to why the Annapolis grad would recommend against it. Military discipline throughout college has to suck. But it is a first rate education. As a flier, you will have a service commitment, anyways.
lol. The USAF thing is because I have been watching their trends as far as aviation goes, and I just don't like the directions they're heading.
Long story short, the pilots weren't the only ones who suggested against Annapolis, there were several former staffers (a retired O-6 among them) who suggested against it as well. The pilots both agreed that once they entered the fleet as pilots, they found that it was a bit easier for NROTC graduates to get flight slots than it was for the Academy graduates. More slots were given to ROTC, ROTC place emphasis slightly differently when selecting pilots, etc.
The staffers and pilots both agreed that Annapolis could be very hostile to prospective pilots. Again, long story short, if you had the mental capacity for piloting, there was some less-than-proper behavior attempting to sway you into the Nuclear Engineering program. Seeing as I already got calls twice a week from recruiters doing everything they could think of to get me to agree to Nuke Engineering, I just didn't want to risk finding myself in that situation. I know that there are good and bad experiences everywhere, but I saw this as a very specific risk I was already being confronted with.
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Basically, all it comes down to now is deciding whether I want to join the Navy or the Corps.
What I want out of the service is simple, I want to fly.
I must disagree with the majority.
USMC, no question. You can attend PLC/OCS with a *guaranteed - in writing* air contract.
-OCC 177
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I'd say overall Marines have more pride in their service and what they do, it's just the Marine mentality. My landlord went ROTC into a Marine Corps commission and retired as a LtCol. and loved it.
I don't have a bias either way but look into the Coast Guard Academy, damn near every person in the service I've ever talked to has said they would go Coast Guard if they could do it over again.
I also echo Stoney's last paragraph and 4440's sentiment. However, most aviators I've met in the Coast Guard have been the most down to earth officers. In the end it's your life so don't let anyone else persuade you. Just my 2 cents, good luck on an extremely tough decision.
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I'll preface this by being ex-squid and my son currently being a 2nd class G/M in the USN (now 5th Generation USN).
Above all other b.s., ask yourself the question how hard core military do you want to be? I was attached to the Corp's and had a Full Bird as my first CO. My USMC Meritorious Mast certificate hangs just as proudly on my wall as does my USN Certificate of Appointment as a Petty Officer, so I have seen both sides. Granted I wasn't a Corpsman and wasn't attached to FMF (I worked with Stinger Missles in Joint Task Force Middle East in the late 80's) but, it's a pretty good representation of what to expect.
Here is what the biggest difference is, members of the Corp's never turn it off. It's USMC 24/7 as long as your on Actdutra. For the USN as long as your not haze grey and underway, your skating out at noon on Friday for a good chunk of commands in the states. At my last duty station, we used to make golf tee-times for the XO at 9:00 am on a Friday just so he'd cut us loose for the weekend.
For the USMC it's out for P/T a zero dark thirty every morning and 10 mile marches that night. Meaning you are out in formation when Squids are just rolling in still half in the bag, or going on a hike when squids are hitting the beach. Many times while under USMC control I had to run at 5 am still working a buzz and throwing up. Gunny would see that and defacto make my lazy squid-ass the road guard, which only made my pain worse. For the Navy that ends shortly after OCS or Boot. Granted the USN maintains the PRT and Body Fat % but, it's not that hard. Plus, in my day we had "smoke breaks" half way through the 1.5 mile run and the stopwatch always magically broke at 13:50.
Realize too that guy's in the Corp's always have to maintain a high standard of Military Bearing where the Navy eases up the farther you progress. Not country club like the Air Force laid back but, the Navy becomes more of a job.
You really have to have the come to Jesus talk with yourself, and honestly decide what's cut out for you.
It really is an incredible commitment that goes into wearing the Globe and Anchor, much more than anything you could imagine.
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...I had to run at 5 am still working a buzz and throwing up. Gunny would see that and defacto make my lazy squid-ass the road guard, which only made my pain worse...
Now THAT is what we used to call "good training". I always thought running drunk was easier than sober 'cause you couldn't feel it as much... Easiest 4 miles I ever did was after hitting the rack at 0445 and being at PT at 0600. :cheers:
Semper RSTEL01
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Want ground and air, go Marines.
Want water and air, go Navy.
Want ground (a little, helping with Army duties), air, cyber, and space, go Air Force. :airplane:
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I am biased after 24 years in the USAF, I now work with the navy every day and have to say I have run into more knuckleheads in the Navy than in th AF. Before I retired I met a few pilots who went to the Naval Academy and then switched to the AF after graduation. It's been my experience that if I worked for 100 service academy grads, 85-90 of them were a-holes. Most OTS and ROTC guys were great to work for. I think that the AF would have more diverse flying opportunities (fixed wing, helo and UAV), but if limited to either Navy or Marines, I'd go Navy. It's a numbers thing....the navy has more folks so it will be easier to stand out among the turkeys and be an eagle. I did 10 years aircraft maintenance, 10 years as a helicopter flight engineer and 4+ years with UAV's.
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........Basically, all it comes down to now is deciding whether I want to join the Navy or the Corps.
What I want out of the service is simple, I want to fly. I have my pilot's license, powered AND glider. My grades are NOT the top of my class in high school.............
Sounds like your over qualified to be an Army pilot....... :D :devil
I am biased after 24 years in the USAF, I now work with the navy every day and have to say I have run into more knuckleheads in the Navy than in th AF.
Slow your roll oh biased one, there are enough knuckleheads in all the services to go around as well as your beloved AF. The one thing I have never seen from any service BUT the AF was sending AF support personnel into a combat zone with "0" absolutely NO WEAPONS TRAINING!! :rolleyes:
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There's a few of us in the USAF that have had a bit of weapons training..................... ........Combat Controllers, Para-Rescue, combat weather, TAC-P's, all our security forces folks, all aircrew get some type of weapons training and as all of my fellow special ops and csar brothers and sisters can attest,we are very familiar with the weapons we fly with. Heck, even when I was a crew chief I had to go re-qualify on the M-16 before I pcs'd to Korea. We all had to shoot the 16 in basic. I wasn't saying there weren't alot of knuckleheads in the AF, just seemed to be a abnormally high number in the navy.
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The Marines are a department of the Navy......
The Men's department :devil
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Since you are intrested in flying helo's have you considerd the Army at all? Army Aviators fly the most sophisticated helicopers in the world.
(http://www.boeing.com/rotorcraft/military/ah64d/images/AH-64D_DVD-1098-2_375x300.jpg)
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Helicopters do not fly..... :noid
They beat the air into submission
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Helicopters do not fly..... :noid
They beat the air into submission
:lol
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I am in college now so one day I can fly one of those army helicopters. Any one of them will do but I would like to fly either a Kiowa or a Apache. The crazy thing is if I wanted to really I could get in the pilot program with a associates degree but I am getting my bachelors.
The army is the place to be if you want to fly helicopters.
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Navy = a job
USMC = a career
That said, if you expect to be a Navy pilot, you best plan on majoring in engineering or physics and taking 5 years to get your degree. If you go USMC and major in anything that starts with "B.S." you can graduate in 4 years. Truth is that USN expects pilots to understand higher math to a functional degree,, while the USMC expects pilots to be only able to spell "math". The USAF expects pilots to be able to teach higher mathmatics to people like Hawking, Heisenberg, and Einstein; even if they are dead. :devil
I somewhat agree, I think the Navy holds their pilots to a higher degree than the USMC on a few levels for essentialy the same thing in the end when ya boil it down. However I've known two Navy pilots (one rotary, the other F-18 (until after all that training he and the Navy figured out that after a couple weeks at sea he gets huge long-term sea-sickness, :rofl even on something as big as a carrier) and ultimatley mutli-engine) and one USMC pilot (rotary: blackhawks, cobras and heuies when he started). After they finished up with their active duty the two Navy pilots had a job signed up before they got out (One flying Fed-Ex cargos, the other for a private firm that is usually contracted to work for power utilities), but my Marine budy only gets to fly these days in the reserve (he's always been looking though, ended up falling back on his EMT training he got in the millitary and his dad helped him get a job in the LA City FD pdq as an EMT when he got outa the service and found himself without a job to support him, his wife and newborn). He has however been on the FDs list for their helicopters and pilot openings, I think he's finaly getting a break after waiting this long and starting some training this summer to begin certification (still up in the air if he'll ever get a spot, but it's hope and he's working hard for it).
So while I agree that hte Navy expects and demands more from their pilots, I think in the end it might pay off because potential employers know this too.
(I also come from a proud Navy family, so if I had to nudge ya in one firection or the other... but the Marines are still an excellent choice ;) )
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I think the Navy holds their pilots to a higher degree than the USMC
Odd since they both go to the same flight school at which the instructor pilots are both Navy and Marine Corps.
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Odd since they both go to the same flight school at which the instructor pilots are both Navy and Marine Corps.
You're taking it out of context, paste on the last half of my sentence and maybe it'll strike a chord.
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USMC pilot (rotary: blackhawks, cobras and heuies when he started).
When did the Marine's get Blackhawks?
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When did the Marine's get Blackhawks?
Post-USMC, he got the training on them going into the Army Reserve even though he still ends up flying a hueie most of the time as he's explained it to me (a couple years ago or so, recently he's jsut been sharing his progress in the LACFD helos)
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Granted the USN maintains the PRT and Body Fat % but, it's not that hard. Plus, in my day we had "smoke breaks" half way through the 1.5 mile run and the stopwatch always magically broke at 13:50.
toejam; I should have joined the Navy. If I recall correctly, my best PFT run time was 19:00-ish.
We had to run three miles, though. :D
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he still ends up flying a hueie
It's spelled "Huey".
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Since you are intrested in flying helo's have you considerd the Army at all? Army Aviators fly the most sophisticated helicopers in the world.
(http://www.boeing.com/rotorcraft/military/ah64d/images/AH-64D_DVD-1098-2_375x300.jpg)
I'm interested in anything that gets more than a couple inches off the ground :D
Difference is, I HAVE the scholarship for both USN and USMC.
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Coast Guard Reserve. Those guys are badazz! :aok
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I'm interested in anything that gets more than a couple inches off the ground :D
Difference is, I HAVE the scholarship for both USN and USMC.
Hm, well I'd probably go USMC, my best friend is in infantry school right now for the marine corps. but if you do go marines just MAKE SURE you dont get screwed over, i know several people who were promised stuff they never got.
Navy would be pretty awesome, Just like Top Gun.
btw, on the Top Gun note. I AM GOING TO SEE "Iceman" IN THE 2010 Shenandoah Apple Blossom Festival! He's the grand Marshall in the the big parade is tomorrow! WOOT!
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The Marines are a department of the Navy......
Ooh Rah!
The Men's department :devil