Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: 321BAR on May 13, 2010, 06:22:13 AM
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Ok, so i'm trying to figure out the differences between these maneuvers and if they are at all similar. It seems that i may not understand what a flat plate IS.
Lomchevak: all i can find on this is that it is partially a flip of the plane backwards flying tail first then gyro-style tumbling at near zero air speed.
Flat Plate: How exactly is this done and what is it exactly? From what i understand a flat plate maneuver is when the plane tail slips a 180 or even further. Is this correct?
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This is classified and not to be spoken of. Your security clearance has been suspended and you are to report to HQ for further debriefing at 1800 hrs this evening. That is all. :noid
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,267130.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,267130.0.html)
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Ok, so i'm trying to figure out the differences between these maneuvers and if they are at all similar. It seems that i may not understand what a flat plate IS.
Lomchevak: all i can find on this is that it is partially a flip of the plane backwards flying tail first then gyro-style tumbling at near zero air speed.
Flat Plate: How exactly is this done and what is it exactly? From what i understand a flat plate maneuver is when the plane tail slips a 180 or even further. Is this correct?
A Lomcovak is NOT an inverted spin. It is NOT a non-precision maneuver. The pilot is NOT "just along for the ride". Recovery does NOT just occur at random without any control by the pilot. It is NOT a single maneuver, but rather an entire family of maneuvers, all of which are very precise and controlled from beginning to end IF they are properly done.
The key element in a Lomcovak is that the airplane's attitude and motion is controlled by four primary flight controls rather than the usual three. The fourth attitude control in this case is gyroscopic precession from the prop, controlled via the throttle. This is why it's extremely difficult (that's spelled i-m-p-o-s-s-i-b-l-e) to do a true Lomcovak with a model; in most cases our props simply aren't heavy enough to provide sufficent precession forces.
There are five main types of Lomcovaks. There are also variations within each type. All are performed under negative "G".
The one most folks are familiar with is the "Main" Lomcovak. This begins from an inverted climb. As airspeed decays to near zero, the pilot initiates something initially resembling an inverted snap roll, so that the aircraft has a rotation rate about the pitch, yaw and roll axes as it reaches zero speed. The aircraft performs three foward tumbles, each one at 45 degrees to the plane of the previous tumble. At the end of the third tumble, the aircraft recovers into a vertical dive.
The "Cap" Lomcovak begins like a hammerhead, but as the airplane rotates to the halfway point, with the fuselage horizontal and the wing vertical, a combination of gyroscopic precession (caused by the yawing rotation from the vertical entry) and down elevator cuases the airplane to perform a single forward tumble, with the plane of the tumble horizontal. As the plane returns to its initial position, throttle is closed and the aircraft yaws the rest of the way to a vertical downline for recovery. I haven't done a complete true Lomcovak myself, but I once did part of a positive "G" variation of this by accident in a DeHavilland Chipmunk, which is how I discovered that Chipmunks do not like to do hammerheads to the left! It's a really weird feeling the first time.
The "Positive Conic" and "Negative Conic" Lomcovaks describe a cone shape in the sky, with the airplane pointed upwards as it sweeps out the cone shape with its underside. The point of the cone is at the prop for the positive conic, and at the tail for the negative conic.
Finally, there is a version resembling the "Main" Lomcovak, but entered from knife edge rather than inverted flight. This one is particularly violent.
The pilot is near the center of rotation for most Lomcovaks. These maneuvers are very disorienting, but not generally too stressful in terms of "G" forces on the pilot. However, since Lomcovaks use the precession forces from the prop as one of the flight controls, as you might imagine, the forces on the prop, crankshaft, engine mounts and engine are extremely severe. The centrifugal forces on things like wing panels can also be surprisingly high, and usually totally different from what the engineers were thinking when the airframe was designed. It is prohibited in a number of aircraft, and results in severe life limits on the rotating components in a number of other aircraft.
Shortly after the maneuvers were invented by the Czechs, some of the top Russian pilots started trying them in their Yak 18's. Shortly after that, there were a series of prop, crankshaft and engine fractures on Yak 18's, including one where the entire engine was yanked off of the firewall by its roots! Right after that, the word went out from "upstairs" to the members of the Russian aerobatic team that anyone caught doing Lomcovaks in a Yak could expect his address to be changed to a gulag in Siberia IMMEDIATELY
Whatever all that means :rolleyes:
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The Lomcevak is also an aerobatic maneuver without any benefits to using it in combat.
ack-ack
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The Lomcevak is also an aerobatic maneuver without any benefits to using it in combat.
ack-ack
What are you talking about? I've used it with great benefit to the guy shooting at me! :D
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What are you talking about? I've used it with great benefit to the guy shooting at me! :D
In that case, I should re-word it.
The Lomcevak aerobatic maneuver doesn't have any benefit for the one performing the maneuver while greatly benefiting the bandit that is on your six moments away from firing.
ack-ack
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that....is so confusing.... i'd love to see a video but the post u gave uptown doesnt show it... :cry
and could anyone describe a flat plate?
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I'm pretty confused also.
I would love to see a video of this lol never really heard of either manuvers.
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that....is so confusing.... i'd love to see a video but the post u gave uptown doesnt show it... :cry
and could anyone describe a flat plate?
The flat plate move I think you're taking about is on page 2 of the link i posted. dTangos post. But to be quite honest Akak is right. It's not worth the effort to try and learn. It's pretty much a 1 shot deal, very hard to do, and if you don't get it right you're totally out of E and just sitting there waiting to get shot up. Learning to perfect a over shoot is what one should spend more time learning, instead of a 1 in a million gimmick move. I really don't think it's worth the effort to try to pull off. just my .02 :salute
The Lomchevak thing.....that looks like aerobatic move that WW2 planes we're built to do. So I doubt it could be done in this game.
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don't worry about the Lomchevak...
can't do one in AH anyway. flight model wont let you.
froger