Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: shiv on May 14, 2010, 08:08:31 PM
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(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/6920/timid.jpg)
Jug at 12K, me at 4K and he won't attack me. Though I first think he may be heavy so I head toward the field, but pull him well clear of the ack after that. Gets with 1.5 or so both times before he pulls up. But he goes on 200 about how I wouldn't fight him.
But as he's a longtime player I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and post the film in case I'm wrong.
Boring film:
http://www.mediafire.com/?zgdg5nj1iy2 (http://www.mediafire.com/?zgdg5nj1iy2)
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I've had ponies, spits, jugs etc fly over my SBD all the time....
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The person that holds all the best cards and refuses to play them would be the timid one. The Jug had all key advantages, altitude and potential energy. At any time he could have traded his altitude advantage for an energy one but refused to use them.
What the Jug pilot wanted was an easy kill because that's all his skill level allows him to get. He wanted you to zoom up to his altitude and preferably stall out below him, presenting him with an easy target and kill as he didn't have to do any work to achieve it. He wasn't looking for a fight at all, that was actually the last thing on his mind. When you didn't play according to his play book, he got upset because his skill level prevents him fighting in such a way that he actually has to fight. His attempt at calling you timid was to get you back to using his play book. What is really funny is guys like the Jug driver are actually the timid ones because if you had equalized or taken away any of the Jug's advantages by either equalizing altitudes or energy, the Jug driver would have tried to bug out immediately to avoid the 1v1.
ack-ack
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Gotta side with shiv on this one. I would have done exactly what Shiv did, extend and force the plane with the advantage to trade his perch for energy and come after me and then reverse, rinse repeat, until your opponent is reduced to a marginal E advantage. It's the only viable option.
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Gotta side with shiv on this one. I would have done exactly what Shiv did, extend and force the plane with the advantage to trade his perch for energy and come after me and then reverse, rinse repeat, until your opponent is reduced to a marginal E advantage. It's the only viable option.
Yep, for Shiv it was the only viable option, climbing up to the Jug only to engage him as a severe energy disadvantage would have been the worse thing for shiv to do. The Jug on the other hand had a myriad of options to select from but his lack of skill and timid flying prevented him from taking advantage of any of his options. Sadly, his flying is just a general example of how most fly in the MA these days.
ack-ack
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Yep, for Shiv it was the only viable option, climbing up to the Jug only to engage him as a severe energy disadvantage would have been the worse thing for shiv to do. The Jug on the other hand had a myriad of options to select from but his lack of skill and timid flying prevented him from taking advantage of any of his options. Sadly, his flying is just a general example of how most fly in the MA these days.
ack-ack
Personally, I will never sum up a pilot by one film or one instance. I have lapses of sanity at times too in this game.
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I've had ponies, spits, jugs etc fly over my SBD all the time....
that's 'cause they know you got that FTL drive in that damned thing. :noid :rofl
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Shiv is a class act, and I know hes not timid(even though he likes his easy mode hogs).
The thing that I think Karaya was calling timid was the dramatic dive to extend away. Shiv I normally will do the same thing but Ill bait them in a bit better by not diving so steep. Im not saying you were timid at all but I think you will find more success with BnZers that way.
You got to give a shot to get a shot....ya feel me? :aok
:salute
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The thing that I think Karaya was calling timid was the dramatic dive to extend away.
I think the P-47 was much more "dramatic" in giving up at an very early stage. With that positional advantage, he could have pressed the attack much more than he did.
But being a safety flyer myself (and hating to fight vs F4Us) I can't point my finger at that, though. But it also would have never come to my mind to call the F4U "timid".
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Shiv is a class act, and I know hes not timid(even though he likes his easy mode hogs).
The thing that I think Karaya was calling timid was the dramatic dive to extend away. Shiv I normally will do the same thing but Ill bait them in a bit better by not diving so steep. Im not saying you were timid at all but I think you will find more success with BnZers that way.
You got to give a shot to get a shot....ya feel me? :aok
:salute
I see what you're saying Junky and but he coulda caught me anytime, I wasn't trying to escape. Against a different plane maybe I'd go sideways a bit to bait him but I still need 300 or so to do a reverse in the hog( even an e-z mode one. ) But I figured hes coming in so why not build up some speed? ButI didn't think he'd lose interest like that with the edge he had on me so maybe you're right.
:salute
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shiv you were right the whole way, Jug very timid in this case overly so. :salute
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The pilot in question resembles a graduate of Uptowns School of Jug Flying. :joystick: I'm proud of that pupil as he returned my only trainer aircraft to the class without a scratch on it. That student receives an A+ :rock
For 3 easy payments of 29.95, you too can learn to fly like the professionals! This offer won't last long, so call 1-(800)JUGLOVE today!!!!!! :x
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I don't fly hogs all that much, 300 is needed to reverse someone?
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not that I recall...but maybe for whatever he is trying to do...it does?
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key the it's everyone's opinions comment. :P
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Maybe the 47 guy had to go flip some burgers or go to the crapper or something???
:bolt:
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Havent seen the film yet.
But the way it was discribed I had the same thing happen the other night. One was a 51 that tried to bnz about 10 times. But would never really engage a fight. He let me climb up with him to 9k as I reversed each time I gained about 1k. He finnaly ah em "exteneded".
The other one was a Jug who started out with really timid high speed passes. then up into a vertical displacment roll when I would turn.
So I suckered him in. Let him get a little closer each time on his pass. Then he just coulnd help it he would turn a wee bit more to het guns each time.
Ah he didnt quite know what to do when I rolled onto his six the last time.
Anyway my point being so cudos should be given to the pilot that wont give into temptation like that when presented.
It like a bug flying into that blue light electric shocker thing. :devil
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:joystick: Im not the greatest stick in the game by any means, but Im an AH Tard like all the rest. Personally, Im looking for just the opportunity that the film presented. A chance to have an uninteruped 1v1. It appears to me that the Jug had several chances to BnZ but for whatever reasons (and there could be several) he didnt want to engage. Now maybe its because Im fairly new (under a year), but I dont see the point in flying one or two sectors with no change of engagement. Im here to fight.
I think if the Jug just egressed without comment it would have ended there. It didnt so here we are.
If I fly against opponents who are new or inexperienced, how do I improve??? Its only by engaging far better pilots than myself that I can learn something (cause Im proly gonna get kicked).
I had the opportunity to 1v1 with Grizz a couple of nights ago in the DA (Grizz 5 RoadE 0) it was a blast for me. I will improve because of it.
Is one kill or one death really going to make that much difference to anyones pilot ranks????
<S>
Cohofly
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I don't fly hogs all that much, 300 is needed to reverse someone?
Well, in that situation I want to have at least 275-300 so I can do a break-turn to make him miss his shot and then have enough E to roll back at him as soon as I see his flight path had overshot mine. So when I see the bullets fly past my tail I go back at him. I don't want to be so slow that if I do a flat break turn and he just does a little yoyo he can turn on top of me in the vertical and come down on me as my speed bleeds off and I don't have the energy left to do an effective barrel-roll type defense. And having too much speed is generally not a problem in the hog there as it can dump it pretty quick if the jug does.
At least that's how I usually play it, I get killed a lot but I've been able to turn at least some of those fights around. Still learning....
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Gotta side with shiv on this one. I would have done exactly what Shiv did, extend and force the plane with the advantage to trade his perch for energy and come after me and then reverse, rinse repeat, until your opponent is reduced to a marginal E advantage. It's the only viable option.
Some folks don't fall for that. Case in point YOU! I refer you back to our little fight the other day. I'd like to hear from you as to what I could have done different in that situation.
I chose the LA7 for that fight because I figured you'd hold your alt and I would be needing vertical power against a G14. My plan (knowing you would probably hold alt) was to build up enough E to be able to catch you in the rope. And it almost worked.
Granted I could have circled the field until I had equal alt but do think you would have just kept climbing also. Never allowing me to get above you.
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Well, in that situation I want to have at least 275-300 so I can do a break-turn to make him miss his shot and then have enough E to roll back at him as soon as I see his flight path had overshot mine. So when I see the bullets fly past my tail I go back at him. I don't want to be so slow that if I do a flat break turn and he just does a little yoyo he can turn on top of me in the vertical and come down on me as my speed bleeds off and I don't have the energy left to do an effective barrel-roll type defense. And having too much speed is generally not a problem in the hog there as it can dump it pretty quick if the jug does.
At least that's how I usually play it, I get killed a lot but I've been able to turn at least some of those fights around. Still learning....
FWIW, I like to have between 275 and 300 in that situation too. It just gives me a few different options. My timing is a bit different- I'd have let him get a bit closer, and tried to accelerate a bit more gradually/less steep. Not that you did it wrong, just different... With the P47 N&M around, I sure wouldn't have opened "slow".
Because you gave him your six, he calls you timid. Had you turned towards him, would you have been accused of going for the HO? If he's that worried about your tail, what about the side with the guns?
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Because you gave him your six, he calls you timid. Had you turned towards him, would you have been accused of going for the HO? If he's that worried about your tail, what about the side with the guns?
:rofl well put :aok
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Some folks don't fall for that. Case in point YOU! I refer you back to our little fight the other day. I'd like to hear from you as to what I could have done different in that situation.
I chose the LA7 for that fight because I figured you'd hold your alt and I would be needing vertical power against a G14. My plan (knowing you would probably hold alt) was to build up enough E to be able to catch you in the rope. And it almost worked.
Granted I could have circled the field until I had equal alt but do think you would have just kept climbing also. Never allowing me to get above you.
You almost had enough E to get to me, but the thing is, if you almost get to me, you make it that much prettier of a rope shot for me.
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You almost had enough E to get to me, but the thing is, if you almost get to me, you make it that much prettier of a rope shot for me.
No, I got a couple in you. You about screwed up. If my gunnery was better you'd been down on the first rope.
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No, I got a couple in you. You about screwed up. If my gunnery was better you'd been down on the first rope.
That's what they all say. :D
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:lol yeah, I reckon you do get that a lot.
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There is an art to the rope and it seems its all in the timing, mess it up and you give them a ho shot or, if you really screw it up a shot while you either roll over or hammerhead over.
Also judging the cons E is a huge deal in the rope. Not as easy as some make it out to be.
It seems you get a lot more crap when you rope people.
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I'm having harder and harder time with F4's vs me in N..(F4-1 series anyhow) IF I know it's Shiv down there, I know I'll prolly lose, sooner or later, regardless of my advantage at start. Depending on my mood, I'd probably engage anyhow.