Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: danny76 on May 16, 2010, 06:32:32 AM
-
What the hell is wrong with UK laws?
I spend a lot of my free time on my own, in the field, camping etc etc.
A perfectly normal and acceptable pastime in the States, and pretty much any other country in the world.
In the UK, just the idea is frowned upon and it's participants are considered dangerous subversives.
I have spent 6 years in the military, and 6 years in the Police service, leaving the police in 2001.
I have just had a purchase refused, I have attempted to purchase a fairly innocuous fixed blade survival/hunting knife as mine is pretty well worn out. The knife I wanted was a full tang with only a 4.85'' blade. The purchase was accepted, and then three days late was rejected, and the cash refunded (minus a handling charge) because I was not a member of the police or military.
I saw an advert on a US site stating that if you complete a $1300 training course the company will throw in a free Springfield XD .40 cal and a few mags, holster etc. In the UK you have to have reasonable excuse in order to carry a 2 inch non locking folding pocket knife. This is frankly ridiculous, in the police I never came across a knife crime committed with a survival or hunting or fighting knife. But a large number committed with stanley knives, screwdrivers and kitchen knives. Would anyone with criminal intent really pay £150 for a knife they intended to use in crime? No, they would buy a £2 carpet knife, much more easily explained if found in your pocket.
And as for home defence, I'm a bit nervous about getting prosecuted under the Offensive Weapons Act if I were to clobber a burglar with a rolling pin
The UK is going progressively round the bend. :furious
-
This is going to end up a flame fest with a bunch of people getting banned from the board.
I could lock it, but then someone would start another thread whining about it, so I will not lock it. I'll just consider this a warning and see which numpties lose their board privs.
-
Wasn't intending to ignite a flaming ranting session, merely intended as a legitimate post in order to discover whether or not I am indeed a dangerous subversive or if my views are valid and supported.
But thank you for the benefit of the doubt. Like you say, numpties may lose their priv's but tat is not my intention.
Thanks Scuzzy :salute
-
Yes danny, you are a dangerous subversive, JOIN THE CLUB! And yes, your views are supported by MANY! :aok
:rofl And yes, there are many like me, who would instinctively empty a whole verbal magazine at this topic!
When I get bored enough, I would anyway :rofl :bolt:
:salute RC
-
Try Norway, I believe they have a different attitude about people walking across the land. Hiking, camping, hunting, etc.
-
That stinks.... George Orwell anyone?????
I'm a bit of a knife collector myself, mostly Victorinox and Wenger SAKs and a couple KA-BAR. So I can kind of empathize with you. A good blade is an essential survival tool.
Couldn't you just buy online from a non-UK store though.
I remember there was a lot of upset knife collectors over there a while back when Ebay banned knife sales in the UK. Other auction sites like www.EDCsource.com have popped up to fill in the gap though. I'm not affiliated, I just know it was started specifically because of the Ebay UK ban, you might find what you want there. I've bought several times from this (http://www.edcsource.com/FELINEVET-Store,name,100015,user_id,shop) seller. He ships free in the US, but will also ship international for reasonable rates. Nice guy too.
-
Years ago the only place you would see that would be the on-ramp of a passenger jet
-
If you have the ability to settle somewhere else, I would do it.
They call it voting with your feet.
People do it here in the states, High Taxes, Silly rules on the 2nd, etc... They just move to a more free state.
-
Or you could attempt to change the laws. I'm sure there's other responsible citizens who feel like you do. Form a PAC, start a petition drive, run for office if that's what it takes.
-
Thanks for the support guys, some problems, I did order from and out of country supplier, but the import was blocked. My brother in law works for an outdoor supplier ALL-TERRAIN.com, and he couldn't even get one for me.
I would like to change the law, or attempt to, my father was asked to run for government, he refused, as I would, because there is not a single political organisation in the uk worth adding your name to. And even extremist political parties like the BNP (read nazi's) would reject such radical agenda's as being entitled to carry a knife, in a sheath, in a bergan, whilst spending a couple of days hiking.
The idea ( and to US citizens this will seem completely obscure) of a British subject, with a history of military and public service, no criminal record in any way,(i do not even have a driving offence against me, not even a parking ticket), but the idea of me going out into what remains of our wilderness, with a .410 shotgun, a knife, an axe, and a bivi, is simply incomprehensible and abhorrent.
Don't get me wrong, I love my country, but i hate the politics, and the damned nancy state, that have banned ANY form of handgun, you have to have an anal probe and electric shock treatment for even suggesting you would like to own a firearm of any description.
You have no option to protect yourself in your own home or outside, the concept of responsible citizens, who have completed the proper training, carrying concealed firearms is so far beyond what would be acceptable that it is not even worth the breath to suggest.
Twice, recently, law abiding people have been intervening in car vandalism of their own property, and have been stabbed to death (not with a £600 Becker survival knife, but one with a sharpened screwdriver, and the other with a steak knife) would the same have happened if they had intervened with a clip of .40cal hollowpoint, I doubt it.
I would be happy to move elsewhere, but since the fuel prices which are crippling my business are continuing to rise and are now an average of £1.20 per litre (about $10 a gallon), and cost of living has risen exponentially, even with me and my wife working full time we are almost living hand to mouth, so the chances of emigration are negligable.
Whilst I am aware this is an extended and pointless gripe, I have to say there is a certain amount of catharcism in venting my spleen where people may take an interest.
Sincerely
-
It is not pointless, If you wanted to move you and your family to the US or Canada you know you could.
-
I'm a little unclear. Is there a waiting period to buy the knife or was it the import that was initially approved and then held back before you received the knife? Either way it's crap and you shouldn't feel bad for being a woodsman. Think of Robin Hood and proudly bite your thumb!
Here, a boyscout can walk into a sporting goods store and buy a machete. I have fond memories of a boyscout trip when everyone quickly discovered that bit of merchandise on the rack and the scoutmasters moved quickly to shut down our purchases of it. That's a different case entirely though...
You're welcome to come visit Denver any time you want!
-
I googled up some additional info for you, cause I was curious: http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?8336-The-Law-FAQ .
-
afaik theres nothing in UK law to prevent you from buying, owning and using any knife, with any sized blade, fixed or not. assuming you are over 16 that is. there is also nothing preventing you from walking around in public with a large knife, as long as you need to for a legitimate reason. blame the supplier for either 1. not understanding the law, or 2. being overly cautious.
edit: as for protecting yourself and your property (or indeed others and their property) you have a range of legitimate options, up to and including killing someone. the key phrase here is "reasonable force".
edit2: any knife isnt quite right, I should have said any reasonable knife - ie. legitimate in purpose. there are banned knives, butterfly knives, belt buckle blades etc. but they are all designed for use against people, not cutting cabbages.
-
Why do you want to go out in the countryside for anyway?
Absolutely no valid use for it at all. Concrete the lot I say.
Why anybody in thier right mind would want to go explore all them hills, lakes, panoramic vistas whilst tramping through aromatic meadows, listening to birdsong.
No need for that my lad. Just Google Earth to see the lot.
Jump on the Wii board for a hop up and down, a real thourough work out.
No need to go out mate. Too dangerous anyway!
Seriously though. Things have changed a whole lot from when I was a kid. I'm 43 now and a father of 5.
I remember going to the Scout shop near where I lived and buying a 5" bowie knife in a leather holder and a metal (milbro) catapult. We all had air pistols and 177 air rifles and would target cans and such in the back garden.
The "Nanny" state has defiantly arrived.
My kids find it hard to play outside. The police don't likes groups of kids hanging around.
Not doing any harm, just talking with thier mates.
The days of playing British Bulldog in the street and going scrumping are long gone.
Wish you the best Sir, wherever you end up moving.
I know, If I could get the money together I would up sticks myself.
Stones
-
afaik theres nothing in UK law to prevent you from buying, owning and using any knife, with any sized blade, fixed or not. assuming you are over 16 that is. there is also nothing preventing you from walking around in public with a large knife, as long as you need to for a legitimate reason. blame the supplier for either 1. not understanding the law, or 2. being overly cautious.
edit: as for protecting yourself and your property (or indeed others and their property) you have a range of legitimate options, up to and including killing someone. the key phrase here is "reasonable force".
edit2: any knife isnt quite right, I should have said any reasonable knife - ie. legitimate in purpose. there are banned knives, butterfly knives, belt buckle blades etc. but they are all designed for use against people, not cutting cabbages.
All true, all exactly what I believed and was trained in, The Offensive Weapons act etc etc.
However, I don't ever remeber studying something called Secton 21 of the Knives Act 1997, which specifically precludes carrying of certain blades, restricting them to military use only, or if you a member of certain religion.
I'm considering converting to Sikhism
-
Come to Arizona my friend.
EDIT: Better safe than banned LOL
-
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac8/rafael502/inb4thelock.gif)
-
All true, all exactly what I believed and was trained in, The Offensive Weapons act etc etc.
oops sry, missed that your an ex-copper, you'll know this stuff way better than I do. I also teach an egg-sucking course if your grandma is interested ... ;)
-
oops sry, missed that your an ex-copper, you'll know this stuff way better than I do. I also teach an egg-sucking course if your grandma is interested ... ;)
Had a word with her, but she's brown. Appreciate the offer nevertheless :salute
-
(http://in-this-economy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/flamethrower_5.jpg)
-
(http://in-this-economy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/flamethrower_5.jpg)
I like my meat well done :O
-
I gotta say the laws over there are pretty ridiculous, especially from my point of view as an American. It does seem like England is becoming more & more a police state, especially with all the surveillance cameras they have all over, it's sad when the criminals are better armed then the law abiding citizens of a country are.
-
This is going to end up a flame fest with a bunch of people getting banned from the board.
I could lock it, but then someone would start another thread whining about it, so I will not lock it. I'll just consider this a warning and see which numpties lose their board privs.
Why in the world, given the legitimate complaint of the OP and oppressive nature of the UK regime would you jump to this conclusion?
He is right...
Further...on balance the population of this BBS system are independent free thinkers who feel eminently qualified to handle a pocket knife...
Strange
Oneway
-
We cannot solve all of the worlds problems IN here...
-
We cannot solve all of the worlds problems IN here...
As thinking and mature adults we can surely discuss them though...
We are not children...
Stifling intelligent discussion as a manner of convenient expediency is neither convenient nor expedient....
Oneway
-
We may not be the age of children but some people given the anonymity of the net will act like a child. It's sad that it comes to rules like the ones we have, but it is better that this doesn't turn into our very own flamethrower war zone. There are places for that.
-
We may not be the age of children but some people given the anonymity of the net will act like a child. It's sad that it comes to rules like the ones we have, but it is better that this doesn't turn into our very own flamethrower war zone. There are places for that.
Fair enough...though tragic given the vibrant and fertile minds that inhabit these boards...
I concede your point and broader good....
Tragic and unfortunate..what a waste of opportunity for vibrant discussion given the caliber of Aces High patrons...
:salute
-
From the British Association for Shooting and Conservation:
It is now illegal to have any sharply pointed or bladed instrument in your possession, in a
public place without good reason or lawful authority.
Good reason for carrying a knife may be shown by occupation as a farmer, estate manager,
recreational stalker, gameshooter, angler or anyone else who has reasonable grounds for expecting
to need a knife whilst pursuing a lawful activity.
Restrictive, as are most laws, hardly draconian or oppressive.
Try these suppliers:
http://www.surplusstore.co.uk/catalog/index.php/cPath/67 (http://www.surplusstore.co.uk/catalog/index.php/cPath/67)
http://www.greenmanbushcraft.co.uk/cutting-tools/knives/ (http://www.greenmanbushcraft.co.uk/cutting-tools/knives/)
-
I really don't understand Danny's problem. There is no law banning the purchase of the knife he's after.
Here's a UK online shop selling it: http://www.heinnie.com/Knives/Ka-Bar/c-1-92-155/
There is a law making it illegal to market a knife as being suitable for combat, but it just applies to the marketing, not the sale.
As to carrying knives, the law states that anything "made or adapted" for causing injury, or intended to cause injury, can't be carried without reason. However, most knives aren't made or adapted for causing injury, they are tools, and as such it rests on intent. If you are carrying a knife around a town centre without a good reason the prosecution will claim intent to use it, if you are out on a camping trip then the intent is obviously to use it as a tool.
However, I don't ever remeber studying something called Secton 21 of the Knives Act 1997, which specifically precludes carrying of certain blades, restricting them to military use only,
I think you are misreading the act. It's about marketing of knives. It's illegal to market a knife based on its suitability for combat, unless you are marketing it to a military force.
-
I would think that would just drive people to black market. By the knife you want then hide it away. Then...maybe you want that pistol too...its not much bigger than a knife..I could hide it as well...then..
-
I really don't understand Danny's problem. There is no law banning the purchase of the knife he's after.
Here's a UK online shop selling it: http://www.heinnie.com/Knives/Ka-Bar/c-1-92-155/
There is a law making it illegal to market a knife as being suitable for combat, but it just applies to the marketing, not the sale.
As to carrying knives, the law states that anything "made or adapted" for causing injury, or intended to cause injury, can't be carried without reason. However, most knives aren't made or adapted for causing injury, they are tools, and as such it rests on intent. If you are carrying a knife around a town centre without a good reason the prosecution will claim intent to use it, if you are out on a camping trip then the intent is obviously to use it as a tool.
I think you are misreading the act. It's about marketing of knives. It's illegal to market a knife based on its suitability for combat, unless you are marketing it to a military force.
Thanks for your reply. Respectfully it's not me misreading the act. But the establishment i was attempting to buy the item from
-
Hmmm. I'm not British, nor do I know the laws. But, out of curiosity (maybe I skipped and missed something), do you have an arrest record? Only thing I could figure as a reason.
<S> Oz
-
Hmmm. I'm not British, nor do I know the laws. But, out of curiosity (maybe I skipped and missed something), do you have an arrest record? Only thing I could figure as a reason.
<S> Oz
No record, no juvenile offences, not even a single point on my licence
-
Maybe someone else with same name? Weird, they should at least let you know why.
<S> Oz
-
its funny when people say move here, move there, due to one reason, in this case a knife. which is really an unimportant reason. You say you wanted that knife, I am pretty sure there's other knives that would serve the same purpose that you could obtain. no hunting store near your house? anyway I think it is funny that people say move due to this reason.
back in 92 I moved from California to North Carolina due to my company was moving and they were willing to relocate us. One of the best reasons to move, I was told, was that taxes were lower in North Carolina. Top rate in ca at the time was bout 12% (i think) and in nc it was 7%. coming tax time the following year I paid 10 times more taxes in north carolina that I did in california, while I earned roughly the same amount in both states. everybody that moved except for the executives paid more in taxes, guess we didnt realized that ca has lots of brackets bases on income while nc only had two brackes either 6 or 7%.
I have moved since then to other states and I now always check all the reasons I am given for moving to see if it is actually better for me.
semp
-
its funny when people say move here, move there, due to one reason, in this case a knife. which is really an unimportant reason. You say you wanted that knife, I am pretty sure there's other knives that would serve the same purpose that you could obtain. no hunting store near your house? anyway I think it is funny that people say move due to this reason. back in 92 I moved from California to North Carolina due to my company was moving and they were willing to relocate us. One of the best reasons to move, I was told, was that taxes were lower in North Carolina. Top rate in ca at the time was bout 12% (i think) and in nc it was 7%. coming tax time the following year I paid 10 times more taxes in north carolina that I did in california, while I earned roughly the same amount in both states. everybody that moved except for the executives paid more in taxes, guess we didnt realized that ca has lots of brackets bases on income while nc only had two brackes either 6 or 7%. I have moved since then to other states and I now always check all the reasons I am given for moving to see if it is actually better for me. semp
Sorry to hear that you've been screwed by a conglomerate, as for no hunting store near my house, maybe it would put this into perspective more if i said no hunting store near my country! seriously
-
Maybe you should try using the Yellow Pages, Thomson Local or Google rather than just assuming your worst-case scenario to be true?