Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: captain1ma on May 25, 2010, 09:19:29 AM
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Greetings from the AVA high command:
Starting May 28, 2010 I will be running tank warz. This is a NON-historical setup using the ARDEN map. All bases but 4 will be set to the 3d chess piece. you will have to capture your way through it using whatever means at your disposal.
objectives will be given each night around 6pm EST. Side to capture the most objectives wins!
fighters will be enabled at Vbases.
at the beginning, you will have to capture one base just to get to the front line. C47 will be activated for both sides. the C47 will sub for the JU-52. axis will only have axis vehicles, Allies will only have Allied vehicles.
Axis--
109G6 only
JU52 -- Substituted with the C47
SDKz-251
panzer
tiger
ostwind
wirblewind
Jeep
Allies
Spit8 only
C47
firefly
M-16
M-8
M-4
M-3
Jeep
Starting bases will not have the tiger or the firefly. any base you capture will have those 2 tanks depending on who captures what.
troops-- 15
radar-- full settings
Icons-- no enemy icons
***caution--arena may be adjusted if necessary***
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See Rule #4
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I guess this is part of the "If you don't like it sit out a week" thing we heard about.
It seems to me an arena trying to attract people would run its most popular setups repeatedly until the population grows significantly.
Of course, this may be one of the more popular setups and they may be doing exactly what I mention.
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It's unnecessarily pigeon-holing the arena and a bad idea/setup if you asked me. What is so wrong with a consistent historical arena and allowing the players dictate what they think is fun?
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Give it a fair shake fellas.
The last time Jaeger had a tank wars setup it did pretty well. There were gv battles that almost never happen in the AvA...and with the no enemy icons setting, it will be very interesting when it comes to the aircraft dropping bombs on the tanks. Gonna see who really has his poop together when it comes to killing tanks from the air...it's not me that's for sure.
Bring your squads, bring your buddies...grab a tank and do some damage...the chances of getting hit by a dive bomber are slim.
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There were gv battles that almost never happen in the AvA...
:headscratch:
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Looks like fun! I will try to make it.
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:headscratch:
:headscratch: question?
The last few setups haven't been very conducive to tank battles sir...especially in the last couple of months.
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How is the current setup(Finland) not conducive?
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Why exactly do we want to promote ground warfare in a flying game in an arena that has trouble attracting more than 10 people?
The AvA needs to focus on concentrating the fight in order to make the arena attractive to grow the population.
This is a lack of focus. All of the people interested in flying won't be interested in this. Any loyalty to the AvA built recently is eroded by this sort of stuff.
I've only recently come back to AH. I came back for one reason. Flying in the no icons AvA.
The AvA needs to be run like a business trying to build a customer base.
What product do the customers want?
How can that product be consistently provided while providing enough variety to keep things interesting?
The product is historically based, realistic style air warfare.
This is equivalent to a steakhouse taking beef off the menu and offering tofu burgers instead.
And using a Z instead of an S makes it all look suspiciously juvenile.
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The last time a tank battle set-up was run, there were some nights where good GV battles raged late into the night, and other nights where people complained that it was false advertising because they found no ground battles and people were just fur balling in the planes that were enabled.
These guys have a tough job trying to appeal to so many different tastes.
I'll be there, because I can still fly a fighter on this set-up.
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These guys have a tough job trying to appeal to so many different tastes.
The fact that they are trying to be everything to everyone is exactly the problem.
Do one thing well is where the AvA should be.
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The current setup allows people to GV, bomb or fly a fighter on a map based upon a historical theater. What is wrong with that? Every taste is covered for any historically-minded player.
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The last time a tank battle set-up was run, there were some nights where good GV battles raged late into the night, and other nights where people complained that it was false advertising because they found no ground battles and people were just fur balling in the planes that were enabled.
These guys have a tough job trying to appeal to so many different tastes.
I'll be there, because I can still fly a fighter on this set-up.
i'll be there because i can shove my tank through the fray...tgers and fireflies are going to need some sort of system to even the fairness out though.
Bug, i havent seen many "historical" moments yet in AvA. D-Day ended up being an air to air fight over Calais... the 2nd Kokutai vs the I-16 ended with SBDs being flown just as much as I-16s and Russians had the advantage
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i'll be there because i can shove my tank through the fray...tgers and fireflies are going to need some sort of system to even the fairness out though.
You can drive a tank in the current setup. How come you're not there this week?
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Why not just generate a GV mission night similar to the Bomber night that is being setup for this Wednesday in a historically-BASED setup?
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Bug...the current setup does not conducive ground battles...take a close look at the writeup then look at the base setups and the vehicle spawns...like almost all of the setups it's geared toward dogfights unless someone just happens to jump in that wants to do a bombing run...to be honest it looks like it was just popped on the arena out of lack of anything else to do.
Dawger...before you go preaching to the choir, as you noted - customer base...and it just so happens that the bigger customer base includes more than just furball fighter jock super toon aces...for 90% of the setups the focus is on dogfighting which leads to furballing which appeals to just one group of people and regardless of how that group of people feels, the AvA is not their personal playground. There are at least 3 people in the AvA group who either run businesses or manage businesses...I'm pretty sure they have a good lock on marketing and management.
If you look closely at Jaegers write up...there are aircraft involved, so if you really want to dogfight, I'm very sure there are going to be people that are more than willing to oblige you.
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Bug...the current setup does not conducive ground battles...take a close look at the writeup then look at the base setups and the vehicle spawns...like almost all of the setups it's geared toward dogfights unless someone just happens to jump in that wants to do a bombing run...to be honest it looks like it was just popped on the arena out of lack of anything else to do.
Dawger...before you go preaching to the choir, as you noted - customer base...and it just so happens that the bigger customer base includes more than just furball fighter jock super toon aces...for 90% of the setups the focus is on dogfighting which leads to furballing which appeals to just one group of people and regardless of how that group of people feels, the AvA is not their personal playground. There are at least 3 people in the AvA group who either run businesses or manage businesses...I'm pretty sure they have a good lock on marketing and management.
If you look closely at Jaegers write up...there are aircraft involved, so if you really want to dogfight, I'm very sure there are going to be people that are more than willing to oblige you.
There are GV battle areas clearly defined with red hash marks on the Finland map. There are main battle tanks for each side. How is that not conducive? Is it because people have a choice and the majority chose to fly planes in a combat flight simulator? Perish the thought.
Let's pretend I am incapable of "taking a close look". Spell it out for me.
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You can drive a tank in the current setup. How come you're not there this week?
how come i have to be? :headscratch: and didnt you just say nobody fought GVs in Finland anyways?
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See Rule #4
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bug...youre joking right? i'm all for historical setups but dont you think that those historically accurate setups wont work until a larger base of players are attracted to the ARENA? you know...the one that only gets 30 online at its best? i WANT the setups to work. but they wont until people tchoose to play in a historic fashion instead of furballing every single map there is
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Enjoy <S>
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See Rule #4
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It's HTC property...
Agreed.
From HTC's website:
"The Axis versus Allies arena is set up for historical gameplay. There is a two sided war, a limited plane set, and reduced radar."
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See Rule #4
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Bug...the current setup does not conducive ground battles...take a close look at the writeup then look at the base setups and the vehicle spawns...like almost all of the setups it's geared toward dogfights unless someone just happens to jump in that wants to do a bombing run...to be honest it looks like it was just popped on the arena out of lack of anything else to do.
Dawger...before you go preaching to the choir, as you noted - customer base...and it just so happens that the bigger customer base includes more than just furball fighter jock super toon aces...for 90% of the setups the focus is on dogfighting which leads to furballing which appeals to just one group of people and regardless of how that group of people feels, the AvA is not their personal playground. There are at least 3 people in the AvA group who either run businesses or manage businesses...I'm pretty sure they have a good lock on marketing and management.
If you look closely at Jaegers write up...there are aircraft involved, so if you really want to dogfight, I'm very sure there are going to be people that are more than willing to oblige you.
So you don't want furballing every setup yet Jaeger only provides furballing airplanes in Jaeger's tAnK wArZZZ. If one wants to simulate WWII GV war take out the air superiority fighters and put in some nice ground attack aircraft.
Jaeger's setup splits the fight into two groups, those who wish to furball and those who wish to drive tanks. Jaeger does this I presume so that the GV drivers don't have to worry about getting bombs dropped on them. So Jaeger has limited the choice to drive a vehicle or furball.
The AvA should be on a published schedule that is made public a year in advance, not the silliness we have now.
It isn't hard to write 26 historic setups . I know. I've done it and the thousands of lines of scripting code that made them come alive.
NOTE: 26 because I believe the AvA should be on a 2 week cycle but if you insist on changing weekly then you just end up running the same setup twice a year. Piece of cake.
EDITED to correct misattribution of blame
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So you don't want furballing every setup yet you only provide furballing airplanes in your tAnK wArZZZ. You want to simulate WWII GV war take out the air superiority fighters and put in some nice ground attack aircraft.
Your setup splits the fight into two groups, those who wish to furball and those who wish to drive tanks. You do this I presume so that the GV drivers don't have to worry about getting bombs dropped on them. So you have limited the choice to drive a vehicle or furball.
The AvA should be on a published schedule that is made public a year in advance, not the silliness we have now.
It isn't hard to write 26 historic setups . I know. I've done it and the thousands of lines of scripting code that made them come alive.
NOTE: 26 because I believe the AvA should be on a 2 week cycle but if you insist on changing weekly then you just end up running the same setup twice a year. Piece of cake.
nice idea dawg +1
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Dawger this isn't Gyrene's setup idea so the limits of the airpower on it have nothing to do with him.
So you don't want furballing every setup yet you only provide furballing airplanes in your tAnK wArZZZ. You want to simulate WWII GV war take out the air superiority fighters and put in some nice ground attack aircraft.
Your setup splits the fight into two groups, those who wish to furball and those who wish to drive tanks. You do this I presume so that the GV drivers don't have to worry about getting bombs dropped on them. So you have limited the choice to drive a vehicle or furball.
The AvA should be on a published schedule that is made public a year in advance, not the silliness we have now.
It isn't hard to write 26 historic setups . I know. I've done it and the thousands of lines of scripting code that made them come alive.
NOTE: 26 because I believe the AvA should be on a 2 week cycle but if you insist on changing weekly then you just end up running the same setup twice a year. Piece of cake.
As for the rest of your post. I couldn't agree more. :aok
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Dawger this isn't Gyrene's setup idea so the limits of the airpower on it have nothing to do with him.
As for the rest of your post. I couldn't agree more. :aok
Sorry gyrene. I went back and fixed it.
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Sorry gyrene. I went back and fixed it.
No worries man. Just trying to keep an open mind.
Everyone...mantra time...hhhhhmmmmmmmm...uuummm mmm...rama lama ding dong diddy.
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(http://brandtjen.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/angry_mob_by_acwraith.jpg)
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nm
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Where is Oldman or Soda? Hell even Fudgums or Fork sounds good at this point.
Oldman has had to step back for a bit because of some real world issues. It's nice, when I do bounce in here, to see a growing interest in the setups that are planned. Takes me back to the days of Brady and the Combat Theater, so it does. Discussions like these can be very helpful in figuring out how to make the arena better. I would ask you all to remember that not everyone is going to like every setup (I'm as bad as anyone else, I really don't like the 1945 plane set), which is why we traditionally run them for only one week; and also that all of us want to make the arena better, so there's no need to get personal with the comments.
Hope to see more of you folks in there as I get more time to spend there myself.
- oldman
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Setups that completely digress from the AvA intent, even the politically correct Oldman can't condone that??
I agree, I'm not a fan of a few historical (or even a historically based what-if) setups but I'll live through them because I know some people do. But this one is a complete farce.
Had such a nice momentum going for the AvA, little ray of hope. Then this turd gets dropped.
What a shame. :(
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Okay, keeping an open mind. I periodically get into a tank and try and have fun. Driving long distances and finding a nice battle is fine. Drive a long distance and get bombed, not bound to repeat it. It may seem like simple mathematics, but until I have actually designed and implemented such a setup, I won't pretend to know what will draw in the "right" people.
Not every idea can be implemented at once, and some ideas I don't agree with. For the most part, I have seen a marked improvement in the type of game play in the arena. This momentum may be enough to get us over the hump that existed before by bringing in more interested parties. Who does love parties? :rock
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What sense does this setup make?? It's not a case of being open-minded. What people is this going to attract? People that will only come to do the GV thing and then be gone when this ridiculous setup finally ends.
Keep it consistent. Am I freaking crazy? Doesn't anybody else see how this is going to squash the spark that the no icon idea started?
Freaking baffles me. :(
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this setup didnt seem to be a problem in february when i ran it, why is it a problem now. it almost sounds like you dont want anyone else to play in "your" sandbox? but im sure thats not the case! :)
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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I've got a whole list I can steal from Shifty or better yet go back through the many that have been done before that we haven't seen in a while.
Or better yet maybe we can do indy car racing in the AvA next week using jeeps and M8s.
What a .....
Some ideas a bit more fitting:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,239877.0.html
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,247978.0.html
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How about BoB?
Italy?
N.Africa?
Okinawa?
Ardennes?
Norway?
Greece?
What if invasion of Japan?
Aleutian?
Mindanao?
Something anything than "WarZ".
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geez bug, can i get you anything? valiums maybe. its just one week, it wont kill you. try it out, maybe you'll have fun? if i didn't know any better i'd swear you were throwing a tantrum! no offense. :D
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You had your shot at setting these up, and for whatever reason, couldn't stick with it. It's someone elses' turn now, so how about giving them the same respect you were shown, or at least some restraint. Three pages, seriously, that's a bit much.
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Yea I want to get my squad over to the AvA and we can gv this setup looks nice but, will the planes be able to see gv icons?
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Yea I want to get my squad over to the AvA and we can gv this setup looks nice but, will the planes be able to see gv icons?
No enemy icons. Makes the tanks hard to spot from the air...just little black dots until you get real close.
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No enemy icons. Makes the tanks hard to spot from the air...just little black dots until you get real close.
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: Awesome!
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Yea I want to get my squad over to the AvA and we can gv this setup looks nice but, will the planes be able to see gv icons?
Heck yea I never go into the AVA but i'll be there for this one :aok
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Cool. Let's hear your alternate setup idea please (i.e. put up or shut up). Maybe Dawger can help you out. He's great at it. Just ask him, he'll tell ya. :)
I think the AvA should have a scheduled rotation published in advance, not weekly ideas recycled randomly.
If this setup was run in February why is it already back in the rotation?
If I was going to create a schedule I would start with the terrains available, separate those into major combat theaters.
Then I would create setups for each theater that progressed from early war to late war.
Then I would create a schedule.
An example...... (Just an example for demonstration)
Four combat theaters with 4 terrains in each
Theaters are PTO, ETO, MED, CBI
Terrains for each theater would be North, South,East,West
Separate the war into four time periods Early, Early Mid, Late Mid, Late
Then just create an event for each combination and run them in a logical fashion.
Week 1 PTO North Early, Week 2 ETO South Early Mid, Week 3 MED East Late Mid, Week 4 CBI West Late
Week 5 PTO South Early Mid, Week 6 ETO East Late Mid, Week 7 MED West Late, Week 8 CBI North Early
In this example every theater would have 16 setups, four theaters would create 48 setups.
Of course real history doesn't fall into neat boxes. As an example a Guadalcanal terrain would only fit into a PTO Early Mid war slot. On the other hand a Europe terrain fits all time slots.
And I know there are tons of existing setups that could be plugged into a rotation like this. I've seen many in the AvA. There are lots of event setups that would be ideal for setups. There is a huge potential existing source for AvA setups.
Long before I sat down and wrote a setup from scratch I would gather as many of the existing setups as possible and use them as is or modify them as necessary to create a schedule that brought the AvA through all the major combat theaters and time periods. Then I would fill the holes in the schedule with newly designed setups, terrains etc.
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Dawger,
Maybe this will help, to fine tune the picture. The 3 chess piece MA system of maps causes a workaround, much of what folks would like to see or do, is just not an option. These workarounds will not be perfect, but as you have said they should, they are modified from time to time.
I value your opinion and suggestions, but in fact most of what you said you would do, is already in place. I too wish there was more publicity surrounding the scheduled setups, and it might surprise you how much of that schedule is laid out.
Having a rigid schedule is good for time management. Is it just as good, when it comes to development? My solution: Have one day a week, where something different might be run (so basically scheduled setups are run 6 days, then an off day to run special events that are designed to test the waters for upcoming modified setups).
Not all setups or events will be your favorite. Even some of your least favorites, if given a chance, may help you to discover something new. Until then, just take it from the veteran AvA players, there is a dark path that we will not go down again. Most of the darkness occurred in the forums, not in the arena (this comment is not a reflection of recent posts, but only a determining factor that newer players may not be aware of).
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If the schedule is based upon theater and time period instead of a specific setup then you have all the flexibility in the world for development.
I'll use my four theaters and four time periods again.
PTO, ETO,MED, CBI
Early, EMid,LMid,Late
A weekly schedule is easy to write.
Early PTO, EM ETO, LM MED, Late CBI, EM PTO, LM ETO, Late MED, Early CBI, LM PTO, Late ETO, Early MED, EM CBI, Late PTO, Early ETO, EM MED, LM CBI
Repeat every 16 weeks.
Then all you have to do after is fill each scheduled slot with an appropriate setup. The rigidity in the schedule is the logical progression through different theaters and different time periods. The individual setups can be very flexible and changing as terrains and other resources come and go.
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Dawger - that's assuming we have terrains to match every setup - which we don't. And then comes into the planning - what early PTO scenario? I do, however, like the idea of posting our schedule in advance, and me might be able to help out more of that in the future.
All of us are volunteers and that requires hours and hours of planning and scheduling - which we don't have, even with the development group. But we'll try to improve how much we communicate about future setups.
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Dawger - that's assuming we have terrains to match every setup - which we don't. And then comes into the planning - what early PTO scenario? I do, however, like the idea of posting our schedule in advance, and me might be able to help out more of that in the future.
All of us are volunteers and that requires hours and hours of planning and scheduling - which we don't have, even with the development group. But we'll try to improve how much we communicate about future setups.
I have the hours and hours of free time, the experience doing it for several years and the willingness to participate.
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I have the hours and hours of free time, the experience doing it for several years and the willingness to participate.
:aok
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I have the hours and hours of free time, the experience doing it for several years and the willingness to participate.
No offense...but you also have a tendency to be short sighted to the point of tunnel vision. We all do it...especially as we get older. Show some abiity to be more open minded and I won't argue with you so much. :D
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I have the hours and hours of free time, the experience doing it for several years and the willingness to participate.
Sounds like a shoo-in to be a constant part of the AVA staff or at least the DevGroup to me.
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No offense...but you also have a tendency to be short sighted to the point of tunnel vision. We all do it...especially as we get older. Show some abiity to be more open minded and I won't argue with you so much. :D
I think by open minded you mean agree with you.
Nice try with the veiled insults but I won't rise to the bait.
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Sounds like a shoo-in to be a constant part of the AVA staff or at least the DevGroup to me.
I doubt it. It seems the AvA is a private sandbox.
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I doubt it. It seems the AvA is a private sandbox.
has been for some time it looks like, at least that is how it comes off looking like to most people even if it is not
only the faces, the names change and sometimes the thinking of how to use the arena
and people wonder why the population is always low, they need to quit trying to fix what was not broken to begin with and let the Arena description be what it says it is
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has been for some time it looks like, at least that is how it comes off looking like to most people even if it is not
only the faces, the names change and sometimes the thinking of how to use the arena
and people wonder why the population is always low, they need to quit trying to fix what was not broken to begin with and let the Arena description be what it says it is
I'm fairly certain keeping the population under 10 is a goal. Only possible explanation.
Once you eliminate all other possibilities the remaining possibility, no matter how far fetched must be the answer. A rough paraphrase of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.
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I think by open minded you mean agree with you.
Nice try with the veiled insults but I won't rise to the bait.
As much as you may want to believe that...it's your choice. I'm not insulting you, I'm showing you the image in the mirror. Look at your rants from the very first post...talk about "private sandbox", you act as if someone took a dump in yours. You could have made your point without acting like Jaeger posted this setup just to piss you off. Now, you can sit in your comfy house and rant like an old man that thinks he's right even when he's wrong, if that makes you feel good but if you think anyone is going to take you for anything but an angry old man with all of your rants then you're mistaken.
How about doing like I suggested and look at the terrains available and post a setup you think will cater to people other than superdogfighting uber aces? I'm sure someone on the staff will run it and you can see for yourself what kind of reception it gets.
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How about letting someone who has volunteered for the AVADG in?
I've got plenty of time.
I'm not interested in posting an individual setup. I'm interested in the AvA being on a published schedule with a consistency that is attractive to players. Jaeger's setup in such a schedule may even have a valid place if it was modified slightly.
It is you that refuses to see the point. Announcing setups four days before they are put into the arena always generates rancor from one side or another.
I stated that much earlier.
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How about letting someone who has volunteered for the AVADG in?
I've got plenty of time.
I'll let one of the guys with AvA Staff Member address that one.
I'm not interested in posting an individual setup. I'm interested in the AvA being on a published schedule with a consistency that is attractive to players. Jaeger's setup in such a schedule may even have a valid place if it was modified slightly.
It is you that refuses to see the point. Announcing setups four days before they are put into the arena always generates rancor from one side or another.
I stated that much earlier.
That is a known issue, problem is until just recently there hasn't been very much interest in the AvA and now we're playing catch up. You are kinda preaching to the choir here in many aspects...it's your bullheaded fervor that is prompting the defensive responses...and that is a point you refuse to see.
Yes a schedule of events with setup details 2, 3, 4 weeks in advance would be nice and it may yet occur...it's a good suggestion that has not gone unnoticed.
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...it's your bullheaded fervor that is prompting the defensive responses...and that is a point you refuse to see.
Yes a schedule of events with setup details 2, 3, 4 weeks in advance would be nice and it may yet occur...it's a good suggestion that has not gone unnoticed.
Heya gyrene,
it very well may look like you have described, regarding Dawger, but noone here can deny his tenacity, he is a committed man of purpose
I thought highly of the way he broke it down concerning the different ETO's & PTO's etc.... and throwing out an example of what was it 48 different possible setups? and then those could even be modified to provide even more?
he has served before in another Sim, as Volunteered Staff, and he knows how it all works behind the scenes........ and he says he has unlimited amount of time and is wanting to help the AvsA Arena become self sustaining and even grow
food for thought
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Heya gyrene,
it very well may look like you have described, regarding Dawger, but noone here can deny his tenacity, he is a committed man of purpose
I thought highly of the way he broke it down concerning the different ETO's & PTO's etc.... and throwing out an example of what was it 48 different possible setups? and then those could even be modified to provide even more?
he has served before in another Sim, as Volunteered Staff, and he knows how it all works behind the scenes........ and he says he has unlimited amount of time and is wanting to help the AvsA Arena become self sustaining and even grow
food for thought
Good points TC. Sometimes we all miss what is being said because of how it's said.
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Hello chaps!
Staff issues apart, :cool: I must say that I do not dislike a no icons GV based week. I will take the opportunity to improve my dismal capacities in the cavalry and try to understand how to use the darn things!
When I spot an enemy tank, I am in tower the next second, they must be cheating... :D
Cheers,
Sparow
8th Armoured, "The Desert Rats"